Old Radium instruments

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
How dangerous are they?

If you had an old aircraft with a full panel of them, are you in danger?
 
No. The two decay products of radium are alpha particles and a gamma. The alpha are stopped by the glass cover over the instrument, and the gamma isotope is so very low and minimal that it won't do even a microscopic amount compared to background radiation standing in sunlight.

If you had a thousand instruments, all in a big pile and you were going to bury them in the sand, it might be an issue later, but for a panel of instruments you're fine.
 
yes, you are in danger of a massive fine from the EPA if they find them stored on your property. If you do take them out of the airplane, get rid of them as quickly and quietly as possible.
 
I have read reports of border agents going strait to the instruments with Geiger counters,

Any truth?
 
Tom-D said:
How dangerous are they?
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So dangerous that the EPA will try to shut down anyone who works on them.....there used to be a guy at Chino who worked on them and the EPA raided his hangar took everything.

Tom-D said:
If you had an old aircraft with a full panel of them, are you in danger?
Click to expand...
I think the consensus is that the limited exposure you get as a pilot is not really going to do much.

If you are around them all the time (say in a abandoned wharehouse full of them left over since WWII), then they might be slightly harmful.

Did George's thread on the 170 board get you thinkin'?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Did George's thread on the 170 board get you thinkin'?
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Not really, we had a discussion at the morning coffee club (think old guy get together) about who got cancer and why, and the subject came up.
 
Radiation exposure leads to a whole host of medical problems. Cancer is just one of them on the list, and the various kinds of cancer have various complex rates, and cross-indications.

It's a complicated deal, but the radium dials in instruments are way, way down on the list of point-source exposure for radiation.
 
Dont take the glass off and lick the dial.

Dont do anything to turn the dial into dust, e.g. grind off the coating using a diamond burr.
 
Skylane81E said:
I have read reports of border agents going strait to the instruments with Geiger counters,

Any truth?
Click to expand...

I had two customs agents tell me specifically they stay away from the instrument panel area because they didn't want to deal with the paperwork from radium gauges.
 
docmirror said:
Radiation exposure leads to a whole host of medical problems. Cancer is just one of them on the list, and the various kinds of cancer have various complex rates, and cross-indications.

It's a complicated deal, but the radium dials in instruments are way, way down on the list of point-source exposure for radiation.
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One of the group passed and it was said that his being in a cockpit full of the old instruments for over 100,000 hours
 
Tom-D said:
One of the group passed and it was said that his being in a cockpit full of the old instruments for over 100,000 hours
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Doubt the instruments contributed. If there was contributory damage caused by the radium in the instruments it would be so low that the removal of exposure may have only given him a month more? It's soooooo hard to quantify, cause we all have exposure to so many different things.
 
Tom-D said:
One of the group passed and it was said that his being in a cockpit full of the old instruments for over 100,000 hours
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Tom, I'd think the crews who accumulate thousands of hours in the flight levels have an order of magnitude more exposure from outside than you could get from anything inside the aircraft.
 
LifeInverted said:
But there's always that one...
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If I was that worried about it, I just wouldn't fly internationally.

Seeing as I've brought in 38 cats from Mexico and not had any issues (just being thorough with paperwork), I suppose I've not found bad agents to be much of a concern. Most are quite friendly and helpful.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If I was that worried about it, I just wouldn't fly internationally.

Seeing as I've brought in 38 cats from Mexico and not had any issues (just being thorough with paperwork), I suppose I've not found bad agents to be much of a concern. Most are quite friendly and helpful.
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I think I'd do a better preflight if that many cats were sneaking on board.
 
JHW said:
I think I'd do a better preflight if that many cats were sneaking on board.
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Yeah, I definitely was checking to make sure I didn't bring anything unwanted. Like humans.
 
i know of a vintage glider that was exported a few years ago and the importation into Denmark (I think) was held up as they threw a fit about radium in the dials
 
JHW said:
yes, you are in danger of a massive fine from the EPA if they find them stored on your property. If you do take them out of the airplane, get rid of them as quickly and quietly as possible.
Click to expand...

Fearless Tower said:
So dangerous that the EPA will try to shut down anyone who works on them.....there used to be a guy at Chino who worked on them and the EPA raided his hangar took everything.


I think the consensus is that the limited exposure you get as a pilot is not really going to do much.

If you are around them all the time (say in a abandoned wharehouse full of them left over since WWII), then they might be slightly harmful.

Did George's thread on the 170 board get you thinkin'?
Click to expand...

Jeff and FT are correct. I recall a story and it may be the one FT refers to in Chino of a guy who purchased a bunch of old instruments from WWII. the EPA and or other enviornmental agencies bascially made his life a living hell. I can't recall where I read the story may have been on the old AOPA board.
 
I should have been more clear that there is little or no health danger. However, there likely is danger from the facists. It appears, in followup that was not the focus of his concern.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If I was that worried about it, I just wouldn't fly internationally.

Seeing as I've brought in 38 cats from Mexico and not had any issues (just being thorough with paperwork), I suppose I've not found bad agents to be much of a concern. Most are quite friendly and helpful.
Click to expand...

That's one heck of a load!
 
i can only wish that i spent enough time in the cockpit of my glider that cancer risk from the radium dials was a concern
 
Customs - and NYC PD - have instruments that are sensitive enough to pick it up. There are any number of stories of passengers transiting commercial airports after various medical procedures that end up getting detained by Customs for tripping the alarm.

Understand that Ted's experience is different, but the (very small) possibility exists of having an issue at the border.
 
My thoughts on his passing was probably all the 115/145 that he washed his hands in.
 
I was a kid during WW II and I was an aviation nut during the War Surplus store era. I've taken apart more radium instruments than I can could count.:yes: I would scrape off the paint so I could make things glow.:hairraise: If I still had any radium instruments I sure wouldn't admit it though.:D
Paul
Salome, AZ
 
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wsuffa said:
Understand that Ted's experience is different, but the (very small) possibility exists of having an issue at the border.
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There always is the possibility of a problem. But if things are that bad, then I'm no longer a law abiding citizen.
 
I work in nuclear power plant maintenance, several years ago we had a technician bring in an old hand held compass and disassemble it on his desk. Shortly afterwards the Radiation Protection folks came around doing a routine contamination survey of office and shop areas. His Supervisor was not impressed when he came in on Monday and found radioactive contamination area boundaries around the tech's desk in the crew work area.
 
Tom-D said:
Not really, we had a discussion at the morning coffee club (think old guy get together) about who got cancer and why, and the subject came up.
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I wouldn't lick the painted dial face (yuk) but aside from that these instruments hold no danger from the radioactivity. You likely get more exposure to radiation walking around outside.
 
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