OK, flight to England without a ferry tank is possible

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
I'm done running numbers. This can be done. And here's how:

Lake Havasu City, AZ (KHII) - Albuquerque, NM (KAEG) (374nm)
Albuquerque, NM (KAEG) - Lamar, CO (KLAA) (264nm)
Lamar, CO (KLAA) - Kearney, NE (KEAR) (234nm)
Kearney, NE (KEAR) - Sioux City, IA (KSUX) (155nm)
Sioux City, IA (KSUX) - Crystal, MN (KMIC) (207nm)
Crystal, MN (KMIC) - Iron Mountain, MI (KIMT) (225nm)
Iron Mountain, MI (KIMT) - Moonsonee, Ontario, CA (CYMO) (443nm **may need stop)
Moonsonee, Ontario, CA (CYMO) - Inukjuak, Quebec, CA (CYPH)
Inukjuak, Quebec, CA (CYPH) - Iqaluit, Nunavut, CA (CYFB)
Iqaluit, Nunavut, CA (CYFB) - Pangnirtung, Nunavut, CA (CYXP) (160nm)
Pangnirtung, Nunavut, CA (CYXP) - Sondre Stromfjord, Greenland (BGSF) (361nm)
Sondre Stromfjord, Greenland (BGSF) - Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK)
Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK) - Patreksfjordur, Iceland (BIPA)
Patreksfjordur, Iceland (BIPA) - Hornafjordur, Iceland (BIHN) (234nm)
Hornafjordur, Iceland (BIHN) - Vagar, Faroe Islands (EKVG) (253nm)
Vagar, Faroe Islands (EKVG) - Sternoway, UK (EGPO) (233nm)
Sternoway, UK (EGPO) - Londonderry, UK (EGAE) (192nm)
Londonderry, UK (EGAE) - Gatwick, England (EGKK) (343nm)

Best part - most of the legs are fairly short, so I can take breaks often....well, that's the second best part. The best part is that every stop on the list has fuel, and no trip is longer than the fuel tanks of most GA airplanes.
route.jpg
 
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That's cool, Nick. When you going? :)

How come there's no distance listed for these legs:

Sondre Stromfjord, Greenland (BGSF) - Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK)
Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK) - Patreksfjordur, Iceland (BIPA)
 
Troy Whistman said:
That's cool, Nick. When you going? :)

How come there's no distance listed for these legs:

Sondre Stromfjord, Greenland (BGSF) - Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK)
Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK) - Patreksfjordur, Iceland (BIPA)
Click to expand...

The software I used does not have those waypoints in the database, since they are dirt strips in countries other than the united states. I am measuring that distance now, but it looks to be ~300 for each one of those legs.

My goal is to do this by 2011.
 
Make sure you know the various local regs about minimum fuel for oceanic overflight. Some of them require some fairly long reserves, and not without cause.
 
SkyHog said:
The software I used does not have those waypoints in the database, since they are dirt strips in countries other than the united states. I am measuring that distance now, but it looks to be ~300 for each one of those legs.

My goal is to do this by 2011.
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What's gonna take ya so long?

Actually, why the shorter legs within the states?
 
KennyFlys said:
What's gonna take ya so long?

Actually, why the shorter legs within the states?
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Money, that's why it'll take so long.

I smoke and I pee, and I prefer to do both outside of my airplane. So I picked shorter legs where I could.
 
Nick here is the planner I used to figure the same thing
http://gc.kls2.com/

Attached is the excel file showing three of the common routes, I can do the north route in my Viking without ferry tanks. The longest leg is 487nm which I have already done nonstop (kmrf elp p20) no problem.

What I haven't done is 487nm, shoot a miss in bad wx and then fly all the way back!
 
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How come there's no distance listed for these legs:
Sondre Stromfjord, Greenland (BGSF) - Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK)
Click to expand...
390nm
Kulusuk, Greenland (BGKK) - Patreksfjordur, Iceland (BIPA)
Click to expand...
327nm

I think you have the cyfp-bgsf distance wrong Nick, I get 487nm
 
A few thoughts from ol' DW:
One, why would you subject yourself to hours of terror flying over the icy cold North Atlantic in a single engine plane?
Two, why would you subject yourself to the boredom of flying over the icy cold North Atlantic in a single engine plane?
Three, if you really wanna do this, there's a place up in Boston that's looking for ferry pilots that are crazy enough to take on those jobs.
Four, I'll bet you the grass strips you're planning on landing at don't have much as far as fuel. Have you checked?
Personally, I wouldn't do that flight. I'm too chicken. More power to those who do it.
 
Also, Nick, you cannot do that leg from the west coast of Greenland to the east coast in a straight line. The terrain is too rough and too high. I think you would have to go around the south end. Don't know if that would work distance wise.
 
deafsound said:
A few thoughts from ol' DW:
One, why would you subject yourself to hours of terror flying over the icy cold North Atlantic in a single engine plane?
Two, why would you subject yourself to the boredom of flying over the icy cold North Atlantic in a single engine plane?
Three, if you really wanna do this, there's a place up in Boston that's looking for ferry pilots that are crazy enough to take on those jobs.
Four, I'll bet you the grass strips you're planning on landing at don't have much as far as fuel. Have you checked?
Personally, I wouldn't do that flight. I'm too chicken. More power to those who do it.
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Boredom? Terror??

Aren't the two mutually exculsive :D

Imagine telling the story of the time you flew a Cherokee across the Atlantic without ferry tanks....
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Also, Nick, you cannot do that leg from the west coast of Greenland to the east coast in a straight line. The terrain is too rough and too high. I think you would have to go around the south end. Don't know if that would work distance wise.
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Ahh, it would appear you are correct. There may be an airport down south, I think I remember seeing one. If it has fuel like the others, I'll add it. Gotta do some more research.
 
It can't be that hard. Just like a normal cross country, but over water at points, right?
 
SkyHog said:
It can't be that hard. Just like a normal cross country, but over water at points, right?
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The stakes are considerably higher in the event of a mx prob, otherwise you are pretty much right. The weather reporting/forecasting would be the real challenge for me. Read some of the stories available online. I have links to about a dozen of em.
 
SkyHog said:
It can't be that hard. Just like a normal cross country, but over water at points, right?
Click to expand...

Two minor issues... weather, and the return trip. The trip to Europe is pretty simple, most of the time the wind is on your tail. The weather though at those latitudes comes in brief windows that are often seperated by WEEKS, and the windows may be days, or they may be hours, and the windows can close without warning and leave you with 90kt winds from any direction and freezing rain at any time of year. Once you have the plane there, there is the issue of returning with it. Those prevailing westerlies which allowed you to zoom on by most of those fuel stops on your way to the land of warm beer, are going to f**k you on the way back. Plan on the trip taking a month or more waiting for the opportunity and a favorable wind, which just so happens to come with horrid weather, rain and ice. Fun stuff huh. Mechanical stuff and fuel is the least of your worries on this trip. It's all about weather.
 
Nick, now flight plan the return trip through the canaires. It doesn't work out so good.....

I FP'd that one for an Orion P3 and the northern return is a major concern even in that most capable ship.
 
Henning said:
Two minor issues... weather, and the return trip. The trip to Europe is pretty simple, most of the time the wind is on your tail. The weather though at those latitudes comes in brief windows that are often seperated by WEEKS, and the windows may be days, or they may be hours, and the windows can close without warning and leave you with 90kt winds from any direction and freezing rain at any time of year. Once you have the plane there, there is the issue of returning with it. Those prevailing westerlies which allowed you to zoom on by most of those fuel stops on your way to the land of warm beer, are going to f**k you on the way back. Plan on the trip taking a month or more waiting for the opportunity and a favorable wind, which just so happens to come with horrid weather, rain and ice. Fun stuff huh. Mechanical stuff and fuel is the least of your worries on this trip. It's all about weather.
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What if you just keep flying East?

Maybe I'll look into that :D
 
bbchien said:
Nick, now flight plan the return trip through the canaires. It doesn't work out so good.....

I FP'd that one for an Orion P3 and the northern return is a major concern even in that most capable ship.
Click to expand...

Why not just fly the return the same way as the outgoing trip?

Also, what are the Canaries?
 
SkyHog said:
Why not just fly the return the same way as the outgoing trip?

Also, what are the Canaries?
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Islands in the mid Atlantic (where the greatest aviation disaster ever occurred, and where the Tsunami that will wipe out the entire eastern seaboard of the US will be generated from when half of one of the islands collapses off its cleft) which is down in the Trade Winds latitudes, those winds blow east to west with great regularity for 7 months (winter) out of the year. Problem is, you get much longer legs crossing down in the lower latitudes.
 
Henning said:
Islands in the mid Atlantic (where the greatest aviation disaster ever occurred, and where the Tsunami that will wipe out the entire eastern seaboard of the US will be generated from when half of one of the islands collapses off its cleft) which is down in the Trade Winds latitudes, those winds blow east to west with great regularity for 7 months (winter) out of the year. Problem is, you get much longer legs crossing down in the lower latitudes.
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Oh, Henning, you are SUCH a pollyana!! :eek: :D
 
Nick I have a friend who bought his Twinkie in England and made the trip from England to MA
Great stories!
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
they happen with enough regularity you get to wondering if it is anything special; heck even remote control planes have done it!http://www.utility-aircraft.com/ferry_flight/index.htm
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Oh, it'll be mighty special to anyone that does or has done it, without a doubt! Will it be earthshattering to everyone that isn't involved? No, but look what it would take to achieve THAT!!

I think a personal best adventure is still a mighty fine adventure! :)
 
etsisk said:
I think a personal best adventure is still a mighty fine adventure! :)
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I'm game, and have done the same sort of planning Nick has!

Nick, have you ordered your GNC-3? Its about 5'x3' chart covering NY to Berlin and all the N Atlantic, looks great on the kitchen table crisscrossed by highlighters.
I also ordered Sporty's OPC-1 the Oceanic Planning Chart which is a placemat sized version of the GNC3. Ha! It came as a pack of 50 tear-offs! Shoot me your address and I'll mail you a few.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I also ordered Sporty's OPC-1 the Oceanic Planning Chart which is a placemat sized version of the GNC3. Ha! It came as a pack of 50 tear-offs! Shoot me your address and I'll mail you a few.
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Were I a PPL student, I'd love to show up at my XC flight and give that to my CFI or better... first, hand it to the DE and pause before saying... "Oh, wrong one.. here's today's cross-country!" :D
 
Y'all are missing the trees for the forest. The major problem in Nick's planning is he has Albuquerque listed as a stop. Nick seems to enjoy cheating death.
 
Hubby has been researching this idea for awhile. He says you can get 100LL in Greenland only if you have it delivered in 55 gallon drums. You pay for the delivery and the entire 55 gallons whether you use them at all.

Of course, that is one of the least of your worries.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Hubby has been researching this idea for awhile. He says you can get 100LL in Greenland only if you have it delivered in 55 gallon drums. You pay for the delivery and the entire 55 gallons whether you use them at all.

Of course, that is one of the least of your worries.
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Don't forget that you get to pump it across by hand. 16 years ago when fuel was $1.27 at Corona (KAJO), it was $6.75 in Greenland.
 
redcloud said:
Nick:

.....but get your IR.
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And make sure you can do a darned good ADF approach. I haven't looked lately, but the last time I did check, most (or maybe just a lot) of the approaches in Greenland are ADF. I'm sure you'll find something about it on one of those websites that people posted.
I still think that doing a trans-oceanic flight in a single engine plane is nuts. No scenery, and the constant worry of an engine out or hitting some weather. I don't imagine you'd have the help of ATC telling you there is a line of moderate to heavy precipitation 25 miles ahead, 17 miles across, and 200 miles wide. Is there even radar coverage out there for the low flying guys? For that matter, do the big planes flying at FL360 get radar coverage? I thought when you out there in nowhere-land over the ocean, it was all timed separation or something. Heck, I don't know anything really, so I'll shut up now.
I'm sure if you decide to go, you will be well prepared for any scenario, so even though I'll worry about you, I'm sure you'll be safe and sound in England before you know it.
 
call me crazy, but I've thought that doing oceanic ferry flights would be fun.
 
SkyHog said:
What if you just keep flying East?

Maybe I'll look into that :D
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Take the wings off, container ship. Rent a second container and put a cot and hotplate in it and you're set. :D
 
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