Oil Brand / Type

StinkBug

StinkBug

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Dallas
Getting ready to do the first oil change on my Mooney and I'm curious about oil selection. Seems all I hear about is Aeroshell 100, and nothing else. I'm used to the automotive world where there are more choices than you can count, and that doesn't seem to be the case at all with aviation oils. Looking around online for prices I've also come across Phillips 66 100AD which appears to meet all the same standards, but is $20 a case cheaper. Is there something I'm missing here, or does everyone just like spending more money on oil?
 
Seems to be a regional thing. I've only ever seen W100 used on the west coast, and only ever seen Philips XC in the midwest. The changeover seems to happen around the rockies. :)

I assumed that our lack of temperature variations negated the need for multi-weight oil... but I'm seeing a lot of Shell 15/50 around of late.. I can't tell if it's a fad, or if someone published some new snazzy data saying that 15/50 vapors cure polio when burned with lead.
 
I think it's tomaaato, tomaahhto.

I run XC with Camguard and my MX is happy with that. He has Shell on the shelf.
 
Sams club carries Shell W100 in some stores. I think it is a throwback to Sam Walton puttering around in his C 150
 
Unit74 said:
I think it's tomaaato, tomaahhto.

I run XC with Camguard and my MX is happy with that. He has Shell on the shelf.
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As a counter point, my engine runs hotter with XC than with Aeroshell 15/50.

It's a horses for courses thing and most engines are fine with the single visc and natural base stock versus the semi-synthetic Aeroshell 15/50.

Adding camguard to the Phillips oil brings the cost up to the Aeroshell price point with a similar additive package. Something to consider...

For the OP, if you're flying a lot with frequent oil changes then just about any of the 100 wt oils will be great. If the airplane sits a lot then maybe thing about using one of the higher end oils or using camguard.

Of course there is also Lycoming's oil requirement to consider - I have a continental so I don't pay attention to the Lycoming's problems/requirements.
 
I'd recommend trying to find the oil distributor(s) in your area. All the places I've been, they will sell case lots to the general public. They can be significantly cheaper. I've never found online retailers to be competitive by the time you add shipping.

I burn either Aeroshell 80W or Phillips XC 20/50 in the winter and Aeroshell 100W in the summer and use camguard. But, yeah, you likely don't need to worry about winter oils.

Edit:

Here's the list of Aeroshell Distributors in the US (and many of them will likely carry the other brands too)

yetti said:
Sams club carries Shell W100 in some stores. I think it is a throwback to Sam Walton puttering around in his C 150
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Sam had an Ercoupe BTW. I believe it's at the Arkansas Air Museum in Fayetteville.
 
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I use Phillips XC 20W-50 year round, and add CamGuard. One reason is that I never know what latitude I'm going to end up in, so just because it's summer here doesn't mean I won't end up someplace with overnight lows in the 20s.
 
ya but.....CamGuard has more goodness in it. :yes:
Clark1961 said:
As a counter point, my engine runs hotter with XC than with Aeroshell 15/50.

It's a horses for courses thing and most engines are fine with the single visc and natural base stock versus the semi-synthetic Aeroshell 15/50.

Adding camguard to the Phillips oil brings the cost up to the Aeroshell price point with a similar additive package. Something to consider...

For the OP, if you're flying a lot with frequent oil changes then just about any of the 100 wt oils will be great. If the airplane sits a lot then maybe thing about using one of the higher end oils or using camguard.

Of course there is also Lycoming's oil requirement to consider - I have a continental so I don't pay attention to the Lycoming's problems/requirements.
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Checkout_my_Six said:
ya but.....CamGuard has more goodness in it. :yes:
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And Philips + Camguard is cheaper than the expensive multi-visc, without the Lycoming snake oil that's hard on Continental starter adapters.
 
I run 20w50 with camguard in my 185 amphib, but where I live it'll be 70F in the summer and -6F in the winter, due to icing sometimes I might not fly that much in winter, thus the camguard. The 20w50 give me a good year round oil.

Only reason I'm running 20w50 vs the 15W50 is due to pricing and average availability, it's a lot easier to find a quart of 20w50 at most random FBOs, it's also a bit cheaper with no noticeable difference in quality.


If you live somewhere like GA or CA you can just run 100W and never think twice.

Biggest suggestion I have for you is change your oil often, cheapest mx you can preform, even with a large filter I change my oil every 25hrs.


Here's a fun article on different oils and a rust test
http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-23996.html
 
Shell 15/50 in all the airplanes I've owned ,never had a problem. If it gets cold ,do a good pre heat. Pricier than the Phillips,untill you figure in price of cam guard,which most people add.
 
Most guys add Camguard to Aeroshell, too.

For my planes I won't use any semi-synthetic oil, so no Aeroshell 15-50 or Exxon Elite. I've got plenty of history with Aeroshell 15-50 and saw marked improvements in my own engines when I switched no non-semi synthetics whether Aeroshell 100 or Phillips X/C. In both cases I add Camguard not only for corrosion protection but for oil performance improvements. Look at the test reports on the Camguard website. When I consider performance and price Phillips X/C with Camguard is my best choice. The fact that it's multi-viscosity and works well for my climate is icing on the cake.

In accordance with ECI recommendations I used Phillips X/C as my break-in oil in my last overhauled engine and with my last few repaired cylinders (different engine). It worked perfectly.
 
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Not sure if it'll help, but this is the oil we have available at the FBO here in Shawnee.
 
... I'm not running camguard, I don't think you need it with elite...:dunno:

$(KGrHqV,!oME8Vn)2MyIBPJ(DwmM4Q~~60_12.JPG


Mainly because our local distributor is Exxon, and I buy it for the farm... ;)
 
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full disclosure....the guy who did the additives for Exxon, left Exxon and made his own better brew.....CamGuard. :D
txflyer said:
... I'm not running camguard, I don't think you need it with elite...:dunno:

$(KGrHqV,!oME8Vn)2MyIBPJ(DwmM4Q~~60_12.JPG


Mainly because our local distributor is Exxon, and I buy it for the farm... ;)
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We run in the fleet (5 Lyc 360/320s, 1 Cont IO240) Aeroshell 80w in the winter, 100w in the summer. Both with the "plus" for Lycomings additive AD. Phillips seems like a decent oil too.

Personally, I think being consistent and frequent with your oil changes has more of an influence on the condition of the engine than a brand of oil does.
 
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0-200/0-300 using aeroshell 15/50 will change their key starters at 300-400 hours, Using 20W50 Phillips the starter will last to TBO.

When I build a 0-200 or a 0-300 I use ECI cylinders and install the oil filter then use Phillips 20W50 from Day 1 to TBO. my customers are advised to change oil at 25 hours.

When they do their cylinders will go to TBO with out problems.

ED, the producer of Cam Guard, wrote an article that said the additive package in oils has dissipated at 20-25 hours.
 
Well now this is starting to sound like a typical oil thread! Lots of different and similar opinions. I notice there's a lot of people running the Phillips X/C but what about the type A 100?

http://aviationoiloutlet.com/Aviati...-66-Type-A-Aviation-Oil-100AD-12-1-quart-case

This looks like a much closer comparison to Aeroshell 100 than the X/C which is a multiweight.

Also can anyone give me a little more info on this Lycoming service bulletin, and what engines it applies to? My plane has an O-360-A1D. Pretty much all my flying will be around here where it's currently 80+ degrees. I've also put 30 hours on the tach in the last 30 days, so it definitely doesn't sit around much.
 
those that advocate changing the oil every 4-6 months....do so because of organics in the oil that cause acidity....not because of use.
 
Re: Oil Brand / Typ

StinkBug said:
Also can anyone give me a little more info on this Lycoming service bulletin, and what engines it applies to? My plane has an O-360-A1D. Pretty much all my flying will be around here where it's currently 80+ degrees. I've also put 30 hours on the tach in the last 30 days, so it definitely doesn't sit around much.
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some Lycoming engines require LW 16702 anti scuff additive or an equal. Aeroshell "Plus" oils and Phillips "Victory" oils have the additive. It is not the same as Camguard and Camguard is not an AMC for the anti-scuff that I know of.
 
Single-weight SAE50 oil like Aeroshell W100 is probably fine year-round in San Diego, but if you travel north this time of year, you might something else in the engine. As for brands, I don't think there's much difference in different brands of the otherwise-same oil (e.g., pure mineral-based versus semi-synthetic). The additives are the big issue, and you definitely want the ashless dispersant "W" type oils in your engine unless it's new or right out of overhaul.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
full disclosure....the guy who did the additives for Exxon, left Exxon and made his own better brew.....CamGuard. :D
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Independent testing by Aviation Consumer suggested that Aeroshell with his "better brew" is not significantly better than Exxon Elite in corrosion protection, and when you add up the two bills, the cost per quart comes out about the same -- except for having to measure in eye droppers full of Cam Guard each time you add oil. I'll stick with my pre-mixed Exxon Elite, thank you. OTOH, if you don't like semi-synthetics, then Phillips X/C 20-W50 with Cam Guard would be a good and cheaper choice.
 
Re: Oil Brand / Typ

Stewartb said:
some Lycoming engines require LW 16702 anti scuff additive or an equal. Aeroshell "Plus" oils and Phillips "Victory" oils have the additive. It is not the same as Camguard and Camguard is not an AMC for the anti-scuff that I know of.
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You are correct -- Camguard is only an anti-corrosion additive, with no anti-scuffing properties and is not an AMOC for the LW-whateveritis additive required in some Lycoming engines (like the infamous O-320-H2AD).
 
If you run your engine all the time It really doesn't matter one bit what oil you use.

However the exceptions are Cold weather startups 15/50 or Exxon are better and if you let your plane sit go with Aero shell plus or Exxon.
 
After much research on the subject, my conclusion is as follows:

1) If you have a Continental engine, use Phillips XC 20W/50 with Camguard in it. As Ted says, the additives in the Aeroshell/Exxon oils are hard on Continental starter adapters, and I've experienced this personally with a club plane. Wish we'd known that before dropping new starters/batteries/cables into it because it started like crap - Then we put in a new starter adapter and it worked great for a while, but it was a period of only months before the Aeroshell 15W/50 destroyed another one.

Ted DuPuis said:
And Philips + Camguard is cheaper than the expensive multi-visc, without the Lycoming snake oil that's hard on Continental starter adapters.
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2) If you have a Lycoming and you're in a climate with wide temperature variations or you fly to places with temperatures that vary from your home drome, you can use Aeroshell or Exxon Elite 15W/50. (Phillips XC 20W/50 with Camguard will work too). However, you need to be sure to fly a lot to keep the cylinders properly lubricated, as multi-viscosity oils will drain from the cylinder walls a lot faster than singles will. Google "Mike Busch multi-viscosity" and you'll find some good articles on that.

3) If you have a Lyc and you only fly in a relatively even temperature band, you're probably best off with a single-viscosity oil like Aeroshell W100 Plus. It'll stay on the cylinders longer between flights, reducing startup wear compared to the multi-vis oils.

There's nothing particular about the brands that makes them "better" but Phillips errs on the side of not putting too much "stuff" in their oils, while the Aeroshell 15W/50 and Plus oils and the Exxon Elite have an extensive additive package that, while meeting the Lycoming AD, wreaks havoc on Continental starter adapters. That's why the Camguard is a must if you're using a Phillips oil.

Hope this helps!
 
StinkBug said:
Also can anyone give me a little more info on this Lycoming service bulletin, and what engines it applies to? My plane has an O-360-A1D. Pretty much all my flying will be around here where it's currently 80+ degrees. I've also put 30 hours on the tach in the last 30 days, so it definitely doesn't sit around much.
Click to expand...

In that case, you can use Aeroshell, Exxon, or Phillips with Camguard and you'll be fine. Keep flying her like that! :thumbsup:
 
It isn't the anti scuff additive that causes problems, it's semi synthetic oils. Aeroshell 100 Plus works fine in Continentals and it has the additive.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
2) If you have a Lycoming and you're in a climate with wide temperature variations or you fly to places with temperatures that vary from your home drome, you can use Aeroshell or Exxon Elite 15W/50. (Phillips XC 20W/50 with Camguard will work too).
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If you're using any of the Aeroshells, add the CamGuard to it, too, unless you fly the plane often (like not letting it go more than 7-10 days between flights). And that applies to the Phillips X/C, too -- fly it often or add CamGuard.
 
Stewartb said:
It isn't the anti scuff additive that causes problems, it's semi synthetic oils. Aeroshell 100 Plus works fine in Continentals and it has the additive.
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For those unfamiliar, Aeroshell 15W50 is a semi-synthetic, but their single-grade oils (both with and without the additives) are all mineral-based.
 
The major misconception in using aeroshell 15W50 is easy start up.

If you are pre-heating as you should it is not required, after the engine is started and warmed up, it doesn't know if it is in Miami or Fairbanks.
 
Stewartb said:
It isn't the anti scuff additive that causes problems, it's semi synthetic oils. Aeroshell 100 Plus works fine in Continentals and it has the additive.
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Yep it works well if you like to buy starters and starter adaptors for the 0-200/ 0-300.

The anit-skuff agent, is a polishing compound known as TCP, it will polish the friction clutch until it will no longer have enough friction to turn the engine.

all the Continental engines use a friction clutch adaptor. except the pull start 0-200/0-300 and the C-series.
 
Remember folks, 99. 44/100% of what you read about oils is written by the advertising dept.
 
txflyer said:
... I'm not running camguard, I don't think you need it with elite...:dunno:

$(KGrHqV,!oME8Vn)2MyIBPJ(DwmM4Q~~60_12.JPG


Mainly because our local distributor is Exxon, and I buy it for the farm... ;)
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It is the same thing as Aeroshell 15-50. Funny you mention not needing Camguard with Elite. The gentleman who made Camguard was an oil engineer for Exxon, and they told him, "Make us the best piston aircraft engine oil there is." So after millions of dollars worth of research and stuff, Ed presents them with the best piston aircraft oil there is, and they say, "Wow, nice, but it's cheaper for us to copy Aeroshell Semi Synth, so that's what we'll do." Ed said fine, left, and took that research knowledge together with what oil is on the market and developed Camguard as an additive package. His recomendation to me was use any of the single weight weight oils, or the Phillips mult vis. The main problem according to him is that the synthetic base stock that everyone uses is the same, and it is developed to work with unleaded car gas byproducts of combustion, not that of 100LL, which has a very different formulation and different byproducts of combustion that the synthetic base stock does not play well with and becomes a corrosive mix.
 
Tom-D said:
The anit-skuff agent, is a polishing compound known as TCP, it will polish the friction clutch until it will no longer have enough friction to turn the engine.
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The MSDS for LW-16702 seems to disagree with you -- no TCP at all. Do you have a source for your claim to the contrary?
 
Henning said:
It is the same thing as Aeroshell 15-50. Funny you mention not needing Camguard with Elite. The gentleman who made Camguard was an oil engineer for Exxon, and they told him, "Make us the best piston aircraft engine oil there is." So after millions of dollars worth of research and stuff, Ed presents them with the best piston aircraft oil there is, and they say, "Wow, nice, but it's cheaper for us to copy Aeroshell Semi Synth, so that's what we'll do." Ed said fine, left, and took that research knowledge together with what oil is on the market and developed Camguard as an additive package.
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That's Ed's story, not Exxon's, and Ed's trying to sell his CamGuard. And no other source confirms Ed's story. OTOH, independent testing shows significantly better corrosion protection with Exxon Elite versus Aeroshell 15W50. So, who are we to believe? Someone trying to sell his product or everyone else?
 
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