Off-airport survival instructions

[coloradobluesky]

I saw them do it on TV. It was a Norwegian island research center and they had Polar Bears they were trying to scare off. The flare stuck to the bears fur and the bear freaked out and ran and never came back. It burned the bear but didnt really harm him.

They also had a dog that would sort of "take on" the bear and run up and nip him. The bear could have killed him with one swipe, but didnt. It was like they had an understanding. Just jousting. Bears seem to be kind of like dogs. THey "steal" food (give you guilty look as they run off with the peanut butter jar).

Run ins with bears run in my family. My Grandmother had to exit the log cabin with my baby mother in her arms because a bear came in. The bear ran out later, with the BACON!

 

[Stewartb]

Make jokes. I have bears in my yard all the time.

Do any of you guys do any outdoor stuff? Surviving should be second nature.

 

[Stewartb]

I tell guys to take flares for unwanted bears in camp at night. Unnatural light, unnatural smell, unnatural sound. They don't like it so they leave. Sting them and they fight. Bad idea.

 

[Zeldman]

I have seen a number of bears shot with bean bag rounds. They took off in record speeds. None came back that night.

Now bear hunting is a different game altogether.

Bears are cool. They keep bringing me back to Alaska.

 

[Matthew]

When I think of grizzlies, I remember reading Lewis and Clarks' notes on one of the first times they came across those during their expedition:

https://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/item/lc.jrn.1805-05-14

>>>
In the evening the men in two of the rear canoes discovered a large brown bear lying in the open grounds about 300 paces from the river, and six of them went out to attack him, all good hunters; they took the advantage of a small eminence which concealed them and got within 40 paces of him unperceived, two of them reserved their fires as had been previously conscerted, the four others fired nearly at the same time and put each his bullet through him, two of the balls passed through the bulk of both lobes of his lungs, in an instant this monster ran at them with open mouth, the two who had reserved their fires discharged their pieces at him as he came towards them, boath of them struck him, one only slightly and the other fortunately broke his shoulder, this however only retarded his motion for a moment only, the men unable to reload their guns took to flight, the bear pursued and had very nearly overtaken them before they reached the river; two of the party betook themselves to a canoe and the others seperated an concealed themselves among the willows, reloaded their pieces, each discharged his piece at him as they had an opportunity they struck him several times again but the guns served only to direct the bear to them, in this manner he pursued two of them seperately so close that they were obliged to throw aside their guns and pouches and throw themselves into the river altho' the bank was nearly twenty feet perpendicular; so enraged was this anamal that he plunged into the river only a few feet behind the second man he had compelled take refuge in the water, when one of those who still remained on shore shot him through the head and finally killed him; they then took him on shore and butched him when they found eight balls had passed through him in different directions;
<<<

 

[asicer]

#1... Be on flight following.

So ATC misses your talking and your squawking, you still gotta hold out for a potentially significant amount of time.

Can you last 12+ hours?

 

[ircphoenix]

So ATC misses your talking and your squawking, you still gotta hold out for a potentially significant amount of time.


Can you last 12+ hours?

I'd rather be on than not. I think it's more likely that a controller would be like "wtf happened to that cherokee" than not.

 

[MAKG1]

I'd rather be on than not. I think it's more likely that a controller would be like "wtf happened to that cherokee" than not.

Yes, but it's hit or miss.

And you can't get flight following where you most need it.

12 hours seems really, really short. Every search I've been involved with has taken days, even with really good radar data. It doesn't help that they always seem to be over the Sierra these days.

 

[Goofy]

Avoid all this crap and fly near a road and stay in contact with ATC. Why chance anything else? Except maybe in parts of Canada and most of Alaska.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Yes, but it's hit or miss.

And you can't get flight following where you most need it.

12 hours seems really, really short. Every search I've been involved with has taken days, even with really good radar data. It doesn't help that they always seem to be over the Sierra these days.

Very true. "Squawk VFR, have a good day" usually happens just as I approach the craggy peaks.

 

[asicer]

I'd rather be on than not. I think it's more likely that a controller would be like "wtf happened to that cherokee" than not.

Not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that 12+ hours is a good chance for a pax to make a poor decision if they're uninformed.

Avoid all this crap and fly near a road and stay in contact with ATC. Why chance anything else? Except maybe in parts of Canada and most of Alaska.

Unless you land *on* the road, there's likely going to be time lag between the time you land and the time you are rescued.

 

[Sac Arrow]

OK, guys. I feel there's a disconnect here. This is *NOT* a post on gear to put in the bag. The question is how to instruct pax on how to use the stuff already in the bag in the event I'm not around and decide not to haunt them in the afterlife.

Sure, you could argue that I should instruct them beforehand but I'm pretty sure post-crash they'll be saying something like "I heard there's a BLT but I'm not hungry yet."

I think you may be on to something. If the pilot and each PAX carries a BLT sealed in a pouch with instructions to remove in an emergency, that would ensure that everyone is able to save their own bacon.

 

[Anthony]

Yes, it does depend a lot on where you fly. Over wilderness areas, mountains etc, I am much less concerned with animals, or two legged predators than I am with hydration, staying warm, and getting found. Teach your pax how to use the ELT manual switch, and the PLB, plus where the water, blanket, and fire starters are.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Yes, it does depend a lot on where you fly. Over wilderness areas, mountains etc, I am much less concerned with animals, or two legged predators than I am with hydration, staying warm, and getting found. Teach your pax how to use the ELT manual switch, and the PLB, plus where the water, blanket, and fire starters are.

If you are able to walk away on both feet in a wilderness area, you're several steps ahead of the game. I've flown over vertical granite pinnacles below which a survivable landing would have been impossible. More accurately, I've done it before but prefer to take a longer route to minimize inhospitable terrain these days.

 

[Stewartb]

I have seen a number of bears shot with bean bag rounds. They took off in record speeds. None came back that night.

Now bear hunting is a different game altogether.

Bears are cool. They keep bringing me back to Alaska.

The best bear deterrent that I've found is the sound of a round being chambered in a long gun. It doesn't matter if it's my 375 bolt action or my 45-70 lever gun. Bears hear it? Zoom, off they go in the opposite direction. Bears behave very differently when you aren't armed. No biggie as long as you change your behavior to suit. I have lots of bear encounter stories. Some close calls, some dead bears, and most just a respectful passing between two species. Bear stories always come up in "survival" threads but truth is bears should be of little concern.

For guys who preach PLBs? An Inreach with a basic subscription is a far better tool. A rescue beacon that you can text with and now that Garmin bought DeLorme, they use the RINO radio housing and include topo maps. Global communication, topo GPS, and GEOS 9-1-1 in your shirt pocket for a very manageable price. The best survival item is and always will be your brain. Be smart and get a 406 ELT and a pocket communicator.

 

[MAKG1]

I am NOT impressed with inReach. Texting takes more than 10 minutes to send something out. That's a really long time to be gliding. Takes 5000 AGL in a 172.

 

[Zeldman]

The best bear deterrent that I've found is the sound of a round being chambered in a long gun. It doesn't matter if it's my 375 bolt action or my 45-70 lever gun. Bears hear it? Zoom, off they go in the opposite direction. Bears behave very differently when you aren't armed. No biggie as long as you change your behavior to suit. I have lots of bear encounter stories. Some close calls, some dead bears, and most just a respectful passing between two species. Bear stories always come up in "survival" threads but truth is bears should be of little concern.

For guys who preach PLBs? An Inreach with a basic subscription is a far better tool. A rescue beacon that you can text with and now that Garmin bought DeLorme, they use the RINO radio housing and include topo maps. Global communication, topo GPS, and GEOS 9-1-1 in your shirt pocket for a very manageable price. The best survival item is and always will be your brain. Be smart and get a 406 ELT and a pocket communicator.

In Denali National Park I found that dragging one foot along the gravel about every 4 or 5 steps really got the bears attention. I saw hikers walking a trail and talking, while I was watching a huge blonde grizzly eating berries. He heard the hikers and walked about 10 feet off the trail into the alders. The hikers passed, totally oblivious to Mr. Grizzly. Then the bear came out and resumed eating blue berries.

Bears that have been hunted sure know the sound of a gun. Like in Texas, deer know that when the truck stops, the shooting starts.

 

[Stewartb]

I am NOT impressed with inReach. Texting takes more than 10 minutes to send something out. That's a really long time to be gliding. Takes 5000 AGL in a 172.

.

Set off the 406 on the way down. You can text about your situation later. I prefer a sat phone, and carry one, but my Inreach works great for texting when tethered to my iPhone. Better than texting from my sat phone. Easy peasey.

 

[Anthony]

The areas of the lower 48, U.S. where there are bears that really may eat you are small. Portions of Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Wyoming. AK is a different story. Bears are not near the top of my list, although I did know a couple that were eaten by a Grizzly as they slept in their tent in Glacier National Park in 1980 during a camping trip. Black bears, and Brown Bears are not aggressive unless protecting cubs. Grizzlies, and Polars are a different creature.

 

[Stewartb]

Not true. Your chances of a black bear encounter are much higher than a brown and blacks are much less timid around humans. By the way, browns and grizzlies are the same thing. The only distinction in the name is where they live, and that doesn't apply in Canada. Neither browns or blacks are predators normally and usually avoid humans unless desensitized, like the ones who live in the city and eat garbage. I chase those away regularly.

 

[Anthony]

Not true. Your chances of a black bear encounter are much higher than a brown and blacks are much less timid around humans. By the way, browns and grizzlies are the same thing. The only distinction in the name is where they live, and that doesn't apply in Canada. Neither browns or blacks are predators normally and usually avoid humans unless desensitized, like the ones who live in the city and eat garbage. I chase those away regularly.

Any animal, especially a big animal can be dangerous, especially when hurt, sick, or starving. Browns, and Blacks are typically more afraid of humans than we are of them in my experience. The incidents of harm, or fatality is very low from these bears. I am not addressing Canada, nor AK as most of us here don't live there. I would not put harm from bears at, or even near the top of my list for a survival situation except in specific areas of Griz population.

 

[Zeldman]

The black bears worry me more. The grizzlys have learned that interaction with the two leggers means trouble for them. The black bears haven't figured that out yet.

I was unloading, loading the plane at Hoonah last summer. I just happen to see some movement in the bushes and realized that we were being intently watched be an older grizzly. I mean he was focused on us and was working his way closer to us. I mentioned that to the person helping me. He told me yeah, that is an old male. He can't hunt very well anymore and will probably not survive much longer. He has been scaring folks all summer and raiding the trash dump regularly.

I would not put harm from bears at, or even near the top of my list for a survival situation except in specific areas of Griz population.

You are correct. If there are no bears in the area there is no danger.

Where there are bears, they are usually the first responders to a plane crash.

 

[Goofy]

"Unless you land *on* the road, there's likely going to be time lag between the time you land and the time you are rescued."

How long do you think it'll take if you aren't near the road?

 

[Stewartb]

I know some guys who went missing 30 years ago in south central Alaska. No trace.

 

[asicer]

"Unless you land *on* the road, there's likely going to be time lag between the time you land and the time you are rescued."

How long do you think it'll take if you aren't near the road?

See post #46

 

[Goofy]

See post #46

Yawn.....