NYC Motorcycle / SUV Chase

Captain

Captain

Final Approach
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First Officer
Did we talk about this and I missed it?
 
Hangar Talk
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No, why do you ask?
 
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I thought we did, did admin delete the thread?
 
Well it it did get to the SZ let me publicly protest it. Why not just deal with it in the forum just like any other topic? I don't get it.

I say abolish the spin zone and 90% of our government. And hate on the Democrats and Republicans. And hate even more on the independents.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Well it it did get to the SZ let me publicly protest it. Why not just deal with it in the forum just like any other topic? I don't get it.

I say abolish the spin zone and 90% of our government. And hate on the Democrats and Republicans. And hate even more on the independents.
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How about Korean chicks, how do you feel about them? What if they ride motorcycles and beat the **** out of you, would that give you a woody?
 
Sac Arrow said:
Well it it did get to the SZ let me publicly protest it. Why not just deal with it in the forum just like any other topic? I don't get it.
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It was originally posted in the SZ, not moved.
 
SoloEqs said:
Another unarmed victim, another success for the anti-gunners.
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What do you think would have happened if he had opened fire and shot some of the off duty cops and corrections officers who are in that gang of thugs? Do you think he'd be alive? What gun short of an M-60 with a full belt would have sufficed?
 
Henning said:
How about Korean chicks, how do you feel about them? What if they ride motorcycles and beat the **** out of you, would that give you a woody?
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Sounds a lot like a dream I had the other night.
 
Henning said:
What do you think would have happened if he had opened fire and shot some of the off duty cops and corrections officers who are in that gang of thugs? Do you think he'd be alive? What gun short of an M-60 with a full belt would have sufficed?
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It's not possible to know the outcome. The vast majority of time that guns are used in self-defense, they're not even fired. Often just a show of force is enough to defuse the situation. The reason most people join gangs, is because they are cowards. Odds are an M-60 wouldn't be necessary. A show of force, would have probably been enough, for the cowards to turn tail and run. If not, dropping the aggressor would have probably been enough, to neutralize the threat.

A person doesn't have to survive, to be a winner. The man in the SUV justifiably feared for his life and his wife and child; because of the unjustified reckless illegal actions of the motorcycle gang (including several off-duty cops). If need be, don't you think many people are willing to die to defend themselves, their family and their country?

In most cases, I'd rather die fighting. If you volunteer to be a victim, then you're putting your family and yourself in the hands of criminals. In doing so they will probably have more control over the evidence and spin. I figure if I'm going to die, I'm willing to die fighting unjust aggressors, and I'd rather leave as much evidence as possible. That's part of the reason I support high capacity magazines. If an innocent person dies and leaves a bunch dead bodies of gang members behind, the public and the investigators will hopefully figure out it is self-defense and have enough evidence to hunt down other gang members.

Many people have forgotten the bravery and integrity that helped found and defend this country. Many people were willing risk and sacrifice their lives for their principles; so that future generations could enjoy the relative prosperity and freedom that we have inherited.

The revolutionary and civil war was fought to give us our freedom. We shouldn't surrender our freedoms, because we are afraid. Jews were forced to surrender their freedoms in Nazi Germany, that didn't work out too well for the Jews.
 
He had a perfectly lethal weapon in that truck, I would have tossed it in reverse and run over people, the forward and run over more. I would have been doing donuts on them.
 
Henning said:
He had a perfectly lethal weapon in that truck, I would have tossed it in reverse and run over people, the forward and run over more. I would have been doing donuts on them.
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Ken Ibold said:
Oh man, Henning. You are so OUT there sometimes.
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In that particular situation, I think I'd have to do the same. He didn't, and the outcome wasn't so good.
 
I don't think introducing guns to the story would have decreased the violence of the outcome.

Guy surrounded by 30 pulls A gun. No, better to stay in the car and flee like he did. Running into stopped traffic was bad fortune. Too bad he couldn't make it to a PD precinct.
 
No Joy said:
It's not possible to know the outcome. The vast majority of time that guns are used in self-defense, they're not even fired. Often just a show of force is enough to defuse the situation. The reason most people join gangs, is because they are cowards. Odds are an M-60 wouldn't be necessary. A show of force, would have probably been enough, for the cowards to turn tail and run. If not, dropping the aggressor would have probably been enough, to neutralize the threat.

A person doesn't have to survive, to be a winner. The man in the SUV justifiably feared for his life and his wife and child; because of the unjustified reckless illegal actions of the motorcycle gang (including several off-duty cops). If need be, don't you think many people are willing to die to defend themselves, their family and their country?

In most cases, I'd rather die fighting. If you volunteer to be a victim, then you're putting your family and yourself in the hands of criminals. In doing so they will probably have more control over the evidence and spin. I figure if I'm going to die, I'm willing to die fighting unjust aggressors, and I'd rather leave as much evidence as possible. That's part of the reason I support high capacity magazines. If an innocent person dies and leaves a bunch dead bodies of gang members behind, the public and the investigators will hopefully figure out it is self-defense and have enough evidence to hunt down other gang members.

Many people have forgotten the bravery and integrity that helped found and defend this country. Many people were willing risk and sacrifice their lives for their principles; so that future generations could enjoy the relative prosperity and freedom that we have inherited.

The revolutionary and civil war was fought to give us our freedom. We shouldn't surrender our freedoms, because we are afraid. Jews were forced to surrender their freedoms in Nazi Germany, that didn't work out too well for the Jews.
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It is a noble thing to die defending you principles, but I'd still prefer to let the other guy have that honor instead.

I'm just poking fun here, and actually agree with the aggressive defense by whatever means crowd.

I was once in a similar position, but with the big difference being that there was only one aggressor when I was attacked in stop-and-go traffic on the 110 freeway in downtown L.A. When he took his first swing at my window with his steering-wheel club lock, I immediately regretted not smashing his lower half as far as possible into the car in front of me when he ran around from the passenger side. From that moment on, I have mentally rehearsed doing exactly that, so that I will never again have to hope that I can reason with or overpower an attacker. If I am ever again in fear for my life from an intentional attack, I will do what I can to take out the aggressor at the FIRST opportunity. I have no obligation to wait and see how it plays out.

As for the semi-innocent guy that is probably paralyzed, it is his own fault for choosing to participate in an illegal mob stunt with a bunch of strangers that are not likely to have a coloring-inside-the-lines attitude about respecting others' rights. It is a lot like the getaway driver that ends up on death-row because his buddy decides to kill all of the witnesses to a hold-up without consulting him first.
 
Captain said:
I don't think introducing guns to the story would have decreased the violence of the outcome.

Guy surrounded by 30 pulls A gun. No, better to stay in the car and flee like he did. Running into stopped traffic was bad fortune. Too bad he couldn't make it to a PD precinct.
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Agree with the first, not with the second. Although I am loathe to comment in this thread. We provide NY's finest with: Cars, many of them, MCs, horses, boats, aircraft including rotorcraft, vans, bikes, and some kind of armed response vehicle. Why would anyone need to 'make it to a PD precinct'? Notwithstanding that there were apparently badged officers within the immediate area of the assault?
 
You didn't miss anything. It started out in Hangar Talk and last I knew was in the Spin Zone. Now I cannot find it at all nor any evidence it was even here. It had gone about 280 posts last I saw of it.
 
Henning said:
What do you think would have happened if he had opened fire and shot some of the off duty cops and corrections officers who are in that gang of thugs? Do you think he'd be alive? What gun short of an M-60 with a full belt would have sufficed?
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We won't know, because he had no gun, so the gang of thugs were able to drag him out of his car and beat him. The only reason that he and his family are still alive is because of a bystander who got in the way and got the thugs to stop.

Personally, I think that after the gun had come out, the violence would have stopped without a shot being fired -- no thug is all that eager to be the first one shot.
 
Captain said:
I don't think introducing guns to the story would have decreased the violence of the outcome.

Guy surrounded by 30 pulls A gun. No, better to stay in the car and flee like he did. Running into stopped traffic was bad fortune. Too bad he couldn't make it to a PD precinct.
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He didn't run into stopped traffic, he and his family were targeted by a group of motorcyclists, who surrounded their car, while one got in front and brake-checked.

A gun might not have decreased the violence of the outcome, but it would quite likely have put the violence onto the thugs who started it instead of onto the family they chose to victimize, and that works for me.
 
SoloEqs said:
We won't know, because he had no gun, so the gang of thugs were able to drag him out of his car and beat him. The only reason that he and his family are still alive is because of a bystander who got in the way and got the thugs to stop.

Personally, I think that after the gun had come out, the violence would have stopped without a shot being fired -- no thug is all that eager to be the first one shot.
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I guarantee there were guns in the gang because there were cops and corrections officers there. It would have been a 1:? shoot out. NYPD kill you for pulling a sandwich much less a gun.
 
SoloEqs said:
He didn't run into stopped traffic, he and his family were targeted by a group of motorcyclists, who surrounded their car, while one got in front and brake-checked.

A gun might not have decreased the violence of the outcome, but it would quite likely have put the violence onto the thugs who started it instead of onto the family they chose to victimize, and that works for me.
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He absolutely did run into stopped traffic. That's when they beat out his window and dragged him out of the car. I watched it with my own eyes (the video).
 
Hollywood Stuntz gang (including the cops riding with them) were childish, cowardice, crooked, bullies.

This is bravery and a great man for doing what he did:
Lien was on the ground when bystander Sergio Consuegra stepped in between him and the bikers…Consuegra, who's in his 50s, was on his way to church when he saw the encounter.

He spread his arms to shield the driver and told the bikers: "That's it, guys. Let it go. That's it. Let it go," he said. The bikers backed off, and Consuegra called police.
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http://news.yahoo.com/da-motorcyclist-had-key-role-nyc-suv-brawl-213733153.html

Some anniversary.

The driver of the SUV was out to celebrate his anniversary with his wife and child; when the motorcycle gang started blocking traffic and terrorizing people. If the good Samaritan hadn't intervened, the SUV driver may have been killed by the motorcycle gang.
 
Captain said:
He absolutely did run into stopped traffic. That's when they beat out his window and dragged him out of the car. I watched it with my own eyes (the video).
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Oh I thought you meant what started it all.

Yes, if not for the stopped traffic, he could have kept going, maybe long enough for the cops to bring guns and save him.
 
SoloEqs said:
Oh I thought you meant what started it all.

Yes, if not for the stopped traffic, he could have kept going, maybe long enough for the cops to bring guns and save him.
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Part of the reason he stopped was his tires were gone. In the original confrontation, the gang slashed some of his tires. By the time he got to where he was beat down, one of his tires was completely gone and he was driving on the rim.
 
SoloEqs said:
You can drive a long way on the rim, especially on pavement.

Running didn't help, and thanks to the hoplophobes, he had no other option when his wife and daughter were in danger.
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I learned a new word today. Thanks!
 
SoloEqs said:
You can drive a long way on the rim, especially on pavement.

Running didn't help, and thanks to the hoplophobes, he had no other option when his wife and daughter were in danger.
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I will bet there were at least 5 guns in the crowd since cops carry off duty. What do you think the outcome would have been if he had drawn and given them an excuse to shoot him?

All the cops in the club should receive a caning for violating public trust. We really need to instill corporal punishment for our public servants.
 
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The officers on that ride acted disgracefully and should be forcefully reprimanded. That situation could have turned out far worse.
 
I'm not a cop but I'm guessing a civilian taking a light beating doesn't rise to the level of compromising an undercover operation. And that assumes the undercover cops were actually present at the scene, which hasn't been confirmed. Remember, while there were 30 or 40'ish at the initial confrontation there were far fewer at the location where the driver was pulled from the car. Was an undercover cop there? I don't know and haven't heard.
 
Henning said:
I guarantee there were guns in the gang because there were cops and corrections officers there. It would have been a 1:? shoot out. NYPD kill you for pulling a sandwich much less a gun.
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Damn, Henning, sometimes you are so perceptive that it's almost frightening. Hope to meet you someday.
 
If the undercover LEOs were "investigating" the biker gang for what exactly were they waiting? They weren't going to apprehend the miscreants until they actually killed someone?
 
Captain said:
I'm not a cop but I'm guessing a civilian taking a light beating doesn't rise to the level of compromising an undercover operation.
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How can you tell when a "light" beating goes to a heavy beating? The only reason it didn't get worse, is an ordinary citizen stepped in and did the job of the cops.
 
steingar said:
If the undercover LEOs were "investigating" the biker gang for what exactly were they waiting? They weren't going to apprehend the miscreants until they actually killed someone?
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From what I understand, only one of the cops was undercover. The other guys were off-duty. The number of off-duty cops who witnessed this is between 2-4 depending on what news article you read. It does appear that none of them stepped in or attempted to report the incident.
 
I can't say I have much sympathy for the biker who was injured... they were all trying to force the driver to stop, apparently, so they could take over a stretch of the highway and do their stupid "stuntz". I guess they wanted a captive audience. They wouldn't even let him move right to exit; they were passing him on the right. Then this dumbass brake-checked him, and he panicked. The whole thing was just crazy and stupid. Lets' just hope some lesson was learned here. I'd guess this guy who will probably never ride-or walk- again is having second thoughts about the wisdom of commandeering a major traffic artery for a little YouTube glory. :rolleyes2:

I've seen it done right- there used to be a motorcycle club across the street from my building (East Coast Bad Boyz); some of the members were (openly) LEOs. They would occasionally have a block party, I assume with permits or permission of some kind, cones out and people on watch... and since it's a one-way street on that stretch, they were politely accommodating if anyone needed to get through to our building (last one before the street merges with the highway).
The parties were loud and boisterous, with plenty of "stuntz", but I never saw or heard of any trouble. They usually did it as a fundraiser, too, for breast cancer or whatever. Spoke with some of the members a few times; they seemed OK.

But I've also seen it done wrong- just two blocks down the highway, several years ago some kid got killed on his crotch rocket. I'm not sure what happened, but if it was not "stuntz" related I'll eat my hat. Within a couple hours a group of friends had already erected a makeshift shrine where a cross road goes under the RR tracks, and were hanging out drinking on the sidewalk, bikes parked willy-nilly.
Within no time, the crowd grew some, then kids started doing "stuntz" right there in the highway ("Let's lament our friend's demise in a bike crash by doing stupid stuff on our bikes in the middle of a busy highway!"). I could see it all from my window. Figured some passing motorist might call the cops, but saw no response. Just when I was thinking I should make the call, someone pulled out a pistol and started shooting in the air. That made up my mind for me.
They had mostly dispersed before the cops showed up, but the shrine remained for several years, always stocked with candles and flowers.
 
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