NTSB Releases Sinking of Tall Ship Bounty Incident Report

Bill Watson

Bill Watson

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Tall Ship Bounty Sinking in Hurricane Sandy

The risks of pushing too hard can be horribly harsh to pilots, ship captains and their captive crews.

I've been tracking this incident because I made a flight on the same day it sunk. The same day that Sandy hit NY/NJ. I took off from Key West on a clear, sunny morning already flying in Sandy's low pressure system just off the coast of NJ. Steadily increasing winds, clouds and a bit of ice were encountered before an exciting landing in Sandy's fringe at my home base in NC.

In the case of the modern day Bounty with diesel engines, electric bilge pumps and most important of all, accurate weather, it occurs to me that pre-20th century sailing was a risky as a 1920's mail plane route. People perished for just doing their job.
 
If it was an airplane "accident", I am sure it would be covered by a couple of items on Bruce's list. :mad2:
I'm no sailor, but do own a couple boats, and I'll never figure out why anyone would willingly sail into a hurricane!:no:
 
That was a fascinating story. One of the King videos talks about the unforgiveness of the sea and aviation, and I certainly agree. Thankfully I have managed to survive sea and air adventures.
 
N747JB said:
If it was an airplane "accident", I am sure it would be covered by a couple of items on Bruce's list. :mad2:
I'm no sailor, but do own a couple boats, and I'll never figure out why anyone would willingly sail into a hurricane!:no:
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The report says nothing I didn't say day one, it was pretty obvious. He made mistake after mistake after mistake. Running hurricanes requires some skill and a sound vessel, he had neither, and both were his fault.
 
When every Navy ship underway on the east coast is steaming due east at 15kts trying to get AWAY from the storm, you gotta wonder what the hell was going through that idiot's head. We saw them on AIS as we headed halfway to the Azores. Watched then head right toward it in complete disbelief.
 
Henning said:
The report says nothing I didn't say day one, it was pretty obvious. He made mistake after mistake after mistake. Running hurricanes requires some skill and a sound vessel, he had neither, and both were his fault.
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Yeah, I don't think there were any surprise findings in this one.:no: It's like a wrong way driver on the interstate wondering why all those crazy people are going the wrong way! :mad2:
 
N747JB said:
Yeah, I don't think there were any surprise findings in this one.:no: It's like a wrong way driver on the interstate wondering why all those crazy people are going the wrong way! :mad2:
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He wasn't wondering, he made a fools bet based on false pride, then failed to take many "outs" which would have allowed him to complete his trip and be in safe harbor for the storm. Personally I would have been up the Elizabeth River as the storm passed if I would have left New London to begin with.
 
Henning said:
He wasn't wondering, he made a fools bet based on false pride, then failed to take many "outs" which would have allowed him to complete his trip and be in safe harbor for the storm. Personally I would have been up the Elizabeth River as the storm passed if I would have left New London to begin with.
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Sandy was a big sumbitch. I was the senior navigator for what became a fleet of around 5 or so ships. We were limited by the frigate with us. We went over 1000 nm east before we were able to start turning around. I remember at one point looking at the chart and storm track and realizing if we had a serious medical emergency, it would have been quicker to go to the Azores vice Bermuda.

That idiot had no business trying that stunt.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Hell of a job by the Coast Guard on the rescue.
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Definitely, but also one of the things that angers me about this incident. It would have been one thing if the idiot was doing some solo sail and taking chances like that, but he hazarded not only his whole crew but the lives of the Coast Guard folks that went out in that crap to save them. Totally avoidable situation.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Definitely, but also one of the things that angers me about this incident. It would have been one thing if the idiot was doing some solo sail and taking chances like that, but he hazarded not only his whole crew but the lives of the Coast Guard folks that went out in that crap to save them. Totally avoidable situation.
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Agreed 101%:nonod:
 
I can understand the captains desire to test himself and his ship against a storm, but doing such a thing is not something that should take place when the lives of others are part of the equation.

I lived on a small sailboat for twelve years. I was caught in a storm about fifty miles off of Mexico one night, it was no hurricane, but it was pushing a close second. It was a very long night, but my boat and I did just fine. It has made for some great bar room yarns over the years.

Sailing in San Diego's waters is about as boring as you can get, mostly mild weather year round. The rare times when the small craft warnings went up, I headed out to sea. I never did get to relive my one great storm, but I still had a lot of fun. I never, not once, took anyone with me on such adventures.

There really is a lot of fun when the wind and the sea are up, it truly is a great challenge, but not a hurricane, that is a different matter altogether.

I did not have GPS back in those days, just a hand held compass and a chart, bringing it back home in the fog was also fun, and not near as hard to do as it sounds, as long as your familiar with the entrance to San Diego Bay.

-John
 
Bill Watson said:
In the case of the modern day Bounty with diesel engines, electric bilge pumps and most important of all, accurate weather, it occurs to me that pre-20th century sailing was a risky as a 1920's mail plane route. People perished for just doing their job.
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Tall ships like the Bounty sailed the world with relative safely, encountering weather much worse than what sunk this ship... especially in the 40-60 degree southern latitudes where it can blow hurricane force winds for days. But they had captains that knew what they were doing, and a capable crew with lots of man power.. think 100 tough sailors with experienced officers.

The 1920's aviators isn't necessarily an accurate comparison, as the captains of the Bounty's era had hundreds of years seagoing experience (if not much more) to draw on. Pilots in that era were true pioneers. Both were very dangerous by today's standards though
 
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dell30rb said:
Tall ships like the Bounty sailed the world with relative safely, encountering weather much worse than what sunk this ship... especially in the 40-60 degree southern latitudes where it can blow hurricane force winds for days. But they had captains that knew what they were doing, and a capable crew with lots of man power.. think 100 tough sailors with experienced officers.

The 1920's aviators isn't necessarily an accurate comparison, as the captains of the Bounty's era had hundreds of years seagoing experience (if not much more) to draw on. Pilots in that era were true pioneers. Both were very dangerous by today's standards though
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Well, I'll have to accept what you say about ships, captains and crews because I just don't have a clear sense of the history.

But the analogy between the two still seems strong to me. It's true that aviation has been aggressively pushing boundaries for only 100 years and tasks like flying the mail in the 20s or 'strategic' bombing in the 40s were truly pioneering efforts. I know the sea bottom is littered with thousands of wrecks accumulated over hundreds of years. Perhaps shipping was in a pioneering mode for a much longer time and progress required the loss of many more lives than one at first imagines. The constant loss of lives being an unspeakable part of maritime culture.

I'll never forget my NAUI diving instructor explaining how decompression tables were developed and why one should assume that there is no fudge factor in them. When the problems of deeper diving with compressed air became apparent, he told us that the Navy took tough Navy divers out, sent them deeper and deeper for longer and longer periods of time until they became ill, then documented the results in the decompression tables we are using. So if you feel stronger than the lineup of overly able 19 year old divers the Navy dredged the depths with to develop the tables, go ahead and push the numbers, but he didn't recommend it.

I've never been able to shake that image from my mind.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Definitely, but also one of the things that angers me about this incident. It would have been one thing if the idiot was doing some solo sail and taking chances like that, but he hazarded not only his whole crew but the lives of the Coast Guard folks that went out in that crap to save them. Totally avoidable situation.
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And a green crew at that. I went through STCW BST with them a few weeks before, they were doing initial, that's how green. One of the girls was my water survival partner. None of them had any real sea time. I don't know where they got the idea to tie themselves together before getting clear of the vessel, that almost killed two of them.
 
dell30rb said:
Tall ships like the Bounty sailed the world with relative safely, encountering weather much worse than what sunk this ship... especially in the 40-60 degree southern latitudes where it can blow hurricane force winds for days. But they had captains that knew what they were doing, and a capable crew with lots of man power.. think 100 tough sailors with experienced officers.

The 1920's aviators isn't necessarily an accurate comparison, as the captains of the Bounty's era had hundreds of years seagoing experience (if not much more) to draw on. Pilots in that era were true pioneers. Both were very dangerous by today's standards though
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Dream on, Cape Horn and the Southern Ocean ate these types of vessels on a regular basis. Also remember those vessels were built to be ships, not movie props. That vessel only looked like one from back then, it wasn't built like one. There was a good reason it only carried a certificate as a static display. I put time in on it 30 years ago, and it was junk then. Vessels of that size would have carried a crew complement in the 20s, not hundreds. Even vessels like the Peking or the rest of the Flying P line, Barques over 400' didn't carry 100 including cadets.
 
Almost a shorter version of the Perfect Storm, couldn't stop once I started. Saw her tied up at Belfast, Maine in August but didn't make time to go aboard.
 
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