Now What - Cross Post from the Red board, long

jkaduk

jkaduk

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
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1,289
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San Diego, California
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Display name:
John Kaduk
You may have noticed that I haven't been around for awhile. That's because after after a long career in engineering I was burnt out. The only thing I do fairly well besides engineering is fly airplanes. I read of people my age getting on with the regionals so I looked into that. I had the hours so I applied and was hired. I made it through CPT school, Indoc, and ground school without too much difficulty. In procedures training I needed an extra training session but then passed my validation. I struggled in sims such that I took all the extra training they would allow but passed my validation there as well. I did OK on LOFT and passed that as well. In IOE I again struggled. I had a pretty tough captain for my first trip but by the end of the trip I had made progress and was feeling pretty good. My second captain was a delight. Unfortunately I didn't quite get all the boxes checked and had to take another trip. The next captain was harder than the first. I regressed significantly and while they were willing to give me another trip I decided to quit. I was tired, frustrated and considering how much training time they gave me compared to how many tasks I had left, I didn't think I was going to make it. Keep in mind that the largest airplane I had flown previously was a Piper Seneca. I also hadn't been flying a lot prior to getting hired. In just two months I was now flying a jet (ERJ 175). I thought that having time in the jet, an ATP and type rating would make it easy to get on with a different airline. Apparently not finishing IOE is a death sentence.
So now I can't figure out what to do. I need to start earning a living and I can do flight instruction but I've never really enjoyed that all that much. I loved flying the jet, and I think if I were given a second chance I would take it. I've applied to most of the regionals and a few local jobs with no luck.
What I should have done was called in sick before my next trip to rest up a bit. I actually was sick for two days after my last trip but was feeling better when I quit.
I'm not starving yet but I need to get something soon so that I don't get cabin fever.
 
You're in CA. What about a 135 like Ameriflight? Get an interview, explained what happened. One thing they will know is you probably aren't going to leave them for the regionals. Worth a try. Or any 135 like. That's just one suggestion.

Go over to the https://www.airlinepilotforums.com and under the 135 forum find the Ameriflight thread and ask them directly. There's one or two over there from the company that answer questions all the time. Paste the above and ask what the likelihood is being hired by them.

Edit: Here's the thread. This should go to the last page.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-135/17324-ameriflight-497.html#post2806143
 
Sounds more like clinical depression to me. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk.
 
jkaduk said:
I made it through CPT school, Indoc, and ground school without too much difficulty... I struggled in sims such that I took all the extra training they would allow but passed my validation there as well... In IOE I again struggled. I had a pretty tough captain for my first trip but by the end of the trip I had made progress and was feeling pretty good. My second captain was a delight. Unfortunately I didn't quite get all the boxes checked and had to take another trip. The next captain was harder than the first. I regressed significantly and... I decided to quit.
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You may have been a victim of politics. I went to work at United Airlines in 1979 and stepped into a hornets nest myself. My B727 transition class had just been changed to save money and ALPA leaders were dead set against the new syllabus. To make their point, a union leader who "flew" the simulators while new flight engineers took their panel checks decided to do his part by secretly sabotaging the CB panel after the cockpit preflight in a way that would result in the applicant failing to diagnose an electrical failure properly and thus fail the check ride. After he succeeded in his plan with me he met my classmate as he entered the sim and said, "Your buddy flunked and you will too." Which he then did. Well, management interviewed each one of us separately and then gave us another ride with management pilots, two each this time, and like you say the test was a delight. We passed and they put letters in our training folders explaining the reason we had failed.

I don't know what your background is in flying jets, but your situation also reminds me of a Grumman American production test pilot I knew who had about six thousand hours in American Yankee aircraft, was an engineer and left the company to be copilot on a corporate Saberliner. He, too, had trouble coming up to speed and was eventually let go.

Here's the thing. It's a big step from light planes to Mach speeds and flight in an air carrier environment in part 25 aircraft. That's why the stepping stone system evolved the way it has. Ab Initio is a crock, IMO, and nothing's going to change my mind about that. That said, when somebody is given a chance like you were, I think the company ought to go the extra mile and give you the time you need. Maybe you can ask for a leave of absence instead of termination? They've invested heavily in you and might go for it. Then you could get your head in the game using desktop simulators, now that you know how the game is played, and go back refreshed and ready to whup 'em. Good luck to you.
 
I don't mean to be rude but at 62 why bother when you would be facing mandatory retirement in three years? I would think you'd be better off 91/135.

That said someone posted a similar story on APC and said GoJet would take them.
 
You gave up, pilots can't give up. Be a pilot, get it done. I would go back to the original place and ask to try again. As far as the not nice captains? You shouldn't care. Just do what they want and prove you can fly, even with a jerk barking at you. That's what they want to see, that you work through issues. Look at this way, you don't have to take them home with you, when the flight is done you are done with them. I hope you get to live your dream.

If it doesn't work out go back to engineering.
 
I applaud your aspiration as I'm kind of in the same funk. Retired at 56, will be 59 next month, and just have started down the path with hopes of flying professionally one day. But I would just go 135 and supplement my pension doing something I love more than words. Flying.

Good luck to you. And like others have said, look into Ameriflight
 
Would you mind elaborating on what aspects of the training process required additional review (IOE and Simulator)?
 
They gave you another chance, and you didn't take it. If you had said "I need a few days to recharge before I try again" I'm sure they would have given it to you. Why do you think it will be any different if you try again? And if you can't hack it as an SIC in a very automated jet, you will have a very hard time single pilot in an antique turboprop with very little automation, so I wouldn't bother with ameriflight.

Sorry if I sound like a dick, but that's the hard truth.
 
I've learned a couple times previously in my life that it doesn't end well when I try turning a passion or hobby into a job, or even a volunteer project for other people. I used to be big into outdoor photography years ago (nothing even remotely approaching professional quality, just an eager amateur) and I took on a couple volunteer assignments for local organizations. Never again. It basically always turned into a second job, and soured me on it. I already have to hold down one full time job, I don't need nor want a second one.

I'm sure I'd feel the same about aviation. For me, it's a passion, to be enjoyed on my own time, without interference or the responsibility of a boss or punching a clock.

I can't speak for others, as I know plenty of people successfully combine their passions with jobs. But it is something people should give some serious thought. Once your passion becomes a job, does enough of the magic wear off such that it's not a passion anymore? For me, in the past, it has. So I know I'll never do it again. Whether it's photography, flying, or whatever, I'm keeping it firmly in the realm of "me time".
 
My son flies for a living, and uses the old quite "The last time I had fun flying was when I paid for it"
 
dmspilot said:
I don't mean to be rude but at 62 why bother when you would be facing mandatory retirement in three years? I would think you'd be better off 91/135.
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Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
 
jkaduk said:
Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
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I'm 63 and would have already applied in a heartbeat a couple of years ago if I had the hours. Not enough time to build those ATP hours now. I saw where the regionals had actually hired 60-63 years old.
 
jkaduk said:
Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
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Touché. Good luck.
 
jkaduk said:
Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
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I talked to an airline pilot who said don't bother getting more than the minimum 25 hours ME time required by the airlines because they don't care if you have 25 hours ME time or 2,500.
 
Scrabo said:
People still use the Red board ?
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They're dropping like flies over there. I quit. Another long, long-time member just quit. The place will be closed in 6 months, and deservedly so.
 
Talk to General Atomics, there are about 370 pilot openings currently,,,, some stateside, some deployed. Flying a 20 container may not be the same as a CRJ, but it is flying still the same.,... We really need experienced pilots!.

https://www.ga-careers.com/
 
EdFred said:
I let my membership lapse when they didn't push back against ADS-B
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ADS-B is fantastic. We got the Stratus in-out, weather and traffic on my ipad. Absolutely wonderful.
 
jkaduk said:
Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
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Therein is the big issue...they knew going in that a 60-something was going to take extra effort, and they were willing to put in the effort (and expense). I see that very frequently.

What potential employers are seeing now is a 60-something who received the extra effort and for whatever reason was unsuccessful, so it may not be worth trying again. I see that periodically, as well.

And the fact that you have a type rating actually matters little to a regional...you hire on and you’re going through the full-blown initial anyway, at pretty much the same time and expense as your first regional before you make them a dime.
 
Start looking at Part 135s, talk to people and find someone smart enough to profit from the extra time that the regional invested in training you.
 
mryan75 said:
They're dropping like flies over there. I quit. Another long, long-time member just quit. The place will be closed in 6 months, and deservedly so.
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I've never even heard of it.... Sounds like a free pron site to me. I take it it is an aviation site or is it more of a reddit?
 
Part 135 ,seems like a good choice ,at your age. Part 135 always looking for pilots,the money’s not great, but your flying.
 
jkaduk said:
Because I know of other people around my age who did it and loved it. Because I felt that if I didn't give it a try I would forever wonder what I may have missed. And because they were willing to hire a guy with only 100 hours ME to be trained to fly a jet.
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Good for you for trying! But I think doing it for a living looks better from the outside than it does from the inside. This from a person who voluntarily walked away a couple years ago after a long career (mapping, air ambulance, 135, and corporate - but no airlines). I'm the same age as you. People ask if I miss it. I don't. I have other interests now.

Weirdly, I still get recruiting mail from regionals and fractionals.
 
As long as it's not single pilot 135. That's not exactly the place I'd advocate for older folk who came off the 121 struggle bus.
 
Thanks for all the replies. So far I haven't found anything but should be able to start instructing soon.
 
Glenn D said:
Talk to General Atomics, there are about 370 pilot openings currently,,,, some stateside, some deployed. Flying a 20 container may not be the same as a CRJ, but it is flying still the same.,... We really need experienced pilots!.

https://www.ga-careers.com/
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There's a King Air job I heard about here in SD but apparently they want ex mil.
 
mryan75 said:
I talked to an airline pilot who said don't bother getting more than the minimum 25 hours ME time required by the airlines because they don't care if you have 25 hours ME time or 2,500.
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There were guys in my class with exactly that plus were short of the 1500 min by the amount they would get in sims
 
jkaduk said:
There were guys in my class with exactly that plus were short of the 1500 min by the amount they would get in sims
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Meaning what, they turned out to be ineligible? Or they got dragged across the finish line by the sim time?
 
jkaduk said:
There's a King Air job I heard about here in SD but apparently they want ex mil.
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And one of those KingAir's is parked just outside of the plant I work at, I can see it parked next to my plane... Every Wednesday there is a company flight up from SD... there are I think 4 or 5 King Airs in use, some are just people haulers, others are test platforms for new "items" that will be used on the MQ-9's...
 
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