Now Taking Comments On Doing Away With 3rd Class Medical

Geico266

Geico266

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Read about the EAA/AOPA proposal here.

http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/2012-03-20_exemption.asp

"Currently, FAA regulations require all pilots to hold at least a third-class medical certificate to exercise the privileges of a private or recreational certificate. EAA and AOPA are asking the FAA for an exemption to that rule, which would give pilots who fly recreationally the option of getting a third-class medical or, instead, participating in a recurrent online education program that will teach them how to self-asses their fitness to fly.

The education program will cover aeromedical factors and exceed the training presently mandated by the FAA. Participating pilots would also be required to hold a valid driver's license and conduct a meaningful self-assessment prior to flight. The self-assessment required in the exemption will be similar to what pilots do now between AME visits. The difference is that pilots will have a higher level of knowledge to do the self-assessment after completion of the required education program.

The requested exemption would help to mitigate the increased risk inherent in transitioning to unfamiliar and sometimes distinctly different aircraft, which is the only current available alternative to the FAA's third class medical.

This exemption request has been built upon substantial evidence obtained over the past 20 years, most recently proven through the successful medical safety standards allowed under the sport pilot certificate, which currently utilizes the driver's license medical standard in lieu of an FAA medical certificate"

Then take a moment and send your comments to the FAA via one of the following methods. Use some of the words from the paragraphs above.

I received the following from Randy Hansen at EAA Hq today on the best ways to voice your comment.

"The EAA does not have a “sign a petition” web site like the AOPA. The primary reason is that the FAA views a petition with signatures as a single (e.g., one) comment, even if the petition has 30,000 signatures on it. So EAA elected not to follow the petition route that AOPA is using."

Here are the four other options for submitting your comments.

1. By US mail:

U.S. Department of Transportation Docket Management System Attn: Comments to FAA-2012-0350 400 7th Street, S.W., Room PL 401 Washington, D.C. 20590-0001

2. By the worldwide web:

www.regulations.gov, then enter "FAA-2012-0350-0001" in the search block, then follow the "submit a comment" icon on the right side of the page.

3. By fax - 202-493-2251 Reference: FAA-2012-0350-0001 Comments

The DOT Docket system does not accept comments by e-mail.

4. The fourth option is to send your comments directly to EAA by e-mail and specifically state that you wish EAA to submit your comments on your behalf. If you prefer this option send your comments to Catherine Lute, EAA Member Services, clute@eaa.org

SEND your comment today to support this proposal!!

IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF ANOTHER CHAPTER, PLEASE FORWARD THIS ITEM TO YOUR MEMBERSHIP!
 
Now is your chance to comment on the proposed change to the 3rd class medical. Pick number 2 and leave your comments on line.
 
Would this allow someone who has been denied a medical to train and fly under the self-assessment program?
 
No. The only way to succeed is to get a class of medical qualification that is based on the States- e.g, the State CDL. Then there is no "FAA has reason to know" because they are no longer the medical authority- it would be the state.
 
I'll happily leave a comment, but I think there's a better chance of me becoming an airline Captain tomorrow than this proposal going anywhere. Before his little incident Randy Babbitt pretty much called it a non starter, and I doubt anyone in the FAA feels any different. Unless there is some solid Congressional support, I doubt anything will happen.

Sorry to be negative, but that' show I see it. Perhaps one of the more computer literate chaps can put up a link to make comments a more facile experience?
 
bbchien said:
No. The only way to succeed is to get a class of medical qualification that is based on the States- e.g, the State CDL. Then there is no "FAA has reason to know" because they are no longer the medical authority- it would be the state.
Click to expand...

The CDL itself, or just the medical card for the CDL?

Getting a CDL is a hassle and can be very expensive. There's this silly requirement that you actually demonstrate your ability to drive a truck, which would be an inconvenience if you have no intention of actually driving trucks.

I traded in my existing CDL for a "regular" license because I hadn't driven anything requiring a CDL in more than five years, and it would have cost me > $400.00 to renew by the time the license fee itself, the re-testing fee, the fingerprinting fee, the medical exam, and the gas spent running back and forth to satisfy all the requirements were factored in. Getting a new CDL would cost much more than that because, again, you actually have to learn to drive a truck somewhere along the way.

Getting the medical card, on the other hand, is easy, assuming that you're reasonably healthy. Anyone licensed to perform physical examinations can issue one.

I do know that the DOT medical card for the CDL can be obtained without actually holding a CDL. (In fact, it must be obtained first for new CDL issuances, at least in New York.)

-Rich
 
Even if we think it might have little hope it is still worthwhile to keep hammering away at them, let them know we want less regulation.
 
RJM62 said:
The CDL itself, or just the medical card for the CDL?

Getting a CDL is a hassle and can be very expensive. There's this silly requirement that you actually demonstrate your ability to drive a truck, which would be an inconvenience if you have no intention of actually driving trucks.

I traded in my existing CDL for a "regular" license because I hadn't driven anything requiring a CDL in more than five years, and it would have cost me > $400.00 to renew by the time the license fee itself, the re-testing fee, the fingerprinting fee, the medical exam, and the gas spent running back and forth to satisfy all the requirements were factored in. Getting a new CDL would cost much more than that because, again, you actually have to learn to drive a truck somewhere along the way.

Getting the medical card, on the other hand, is easy, assuming that you're reasonably healthy. Anyone licensed to perform physical examinations can issue one.

I do know that the DOT medical card for the CDL can be obtained without actually holding a CDL. (In fact, it must be obtained first for new CDL issuances, at least in New York.)

-Rich
Click to expand...
Just adapt the medical standards of the CDL to substitute for the current 3rd class standards.
 
airbornejohnny said:
CDL standards are Federal...FWIW
Click to expand...
I don't care who invented them. They are a lot more reasonable than the current 3rd class standards. I've worked with truckers and they can get their medical certificate restored 3 months after a heart attack. I did CDL physicals on soldiers who were about to leave the Army so they could get a truck driving job.
 
Gary F said:
I don't care who invented them. They are a lot more reasonable than the current 3rd class standards. I've worked with truckers and they can get their medical certificate restored 3 months after a heart attack. I did CDL physicals on soldiers who were about to leave the Army so they could get a truck driving job.
Click to expand...

The examiner has much more discretion in the case of the CDL medical card. If a candidate had a serious medical problem, but it has sufficiently resolved, the CDL medical examiner can order tests, evaluate the results, document his or her findings, and (with very few exceptions) approve and issue on the spot.

-Rich
 
Gary F said:
Just adapt the medical standards of the CDL to substitute for the current 3rd class standards.
Click to expand...

Hey, I have an even easier plan: Add a line of text to the top of the DOT medical certificate that says "Domestic Third-Class Airman Medical Certificate," and call it done.

The "Domestic" is because I don't think a CDL physical administered by a non-AME would meet ICAO requirements for international use.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The CDL itself, or just the medical card for the CDL?

Getting a CDL is a hassle and can be very expensive. There's this silly requirement that you actually demonstrate your ability to drive a truck, which would be an inconvenience if you have no intention of actually driving trucks.

I traded in my existing CDL for a "regular" license because I hadn't driven anything requiring a CDL in more than five years, and it would have cost me > $400.00 to renew by the time the license fee itself, the re-testing fee, the fingerprinting fee, the medical exam, and the gas spent running back and forth to satisfy all the requirements were factored in. Getting a new CDL would cost much more than that because, again, you actually have to learn to drive a truck somewhere along the way.

Getting the medical card, on the other hand, is easy, assuming that you're reasonably healthy. Anyone licensed to perform physical examinations can issue one.

I do know that the DOT medical card for the CDL can be obtained without actually holding a CDL. (In fact, it must be obtained first for new CDL issuances, at least in New York.)

-Rich
Click to expand...
Just the medical card!

You don't have to worry about the nonstandard declaration- LSA and Macro (proposed)LSA don't meet ICAO standards....
 
airbornejohnny said:
CDL standards are Federal...FWIW
Click to expand...
Actually, not. There is a federal CDL, but the 50 states all have their own. And for heaven's sake, let's not even TALK about the federal CDL. That would defeat the "had reason to know" part instantaneously.
 
But most states use the Federal/DOT medical system for CDLs. Won't that also defeat the goal?
 
I know that we Americans have this odd propensity for re-inventing the wheel, otherwise we might be interested in knowing that the British addressed this identical dilemma 10 years ago.

In England, one can be issued a "National Private Pilot License" (NPPL) whose privileges are limited to day VFR (and SVFR with ATC approval); visual contact with the ground; maximum of three passengers (plus the pilot); and a maximum four-seat, single-engine aircraft with a maximum speed of 140 KIA. The license is valid only in the UK.

The medical requirement is satisfied by a "declaration." The pilot self certifies on a form that he or she believes that he or she is fit to fly. The form is countersigned by the pilot's doctor, who certifies that he or she (that is, the doctor) knows of no reason why the pilot wouldn't meet the medical standard required for drivers in England.

Interestingly, there are two classes of medical standards for drivers in England. The "Group 1" medical is for ordinary drivers, and also allows NPPL holders to fly solo. The "Group 2" medical is for commercial drivers, and also allows NPPL holders to carry passengers.

I haven't been to England in quite some time, but to my knowledge, there have been no reports of British pilots flying with medical self-declarations dropping dead and falling from the sky en masse since this policy was put in place -- 10 years ago.

-Rich
 
Nate, the point is to get the actual issuance of the medical qualification (for "macro" LSA) OUT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. This is the only way around LSA double jeopardy.

The reason we have LSA double jeopardy is that if a medical denial was the last event, FAA has reason to know you should not operate an aircraft. But if you are requalified by a state authority and the Agency rules permit that, then it is on the State authority however that might be structured.

Get it OUT of the Federal DOT.

The other problem is, third class pilots need relief. But these are two separated, though related problems.
 
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bbchien said:
Nate, the point is to get the actual issuance of the medical qualification (for "macro" LSA) OUT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. This is the only way around LSA double jeopardy.

The reason we have LSA double jeopardy is that if a medical denial was the last event, FAA has reason to know you should not operate an aircraft. But if you are requalified by a state authority and the Agency rules permit that, then it is on the State authority however that might be structured.

Get it OUT of the Federal DOT.

The other problem is, third class pilots need relief. But these are two separated, though related problems.
Click to expand...

Understand. I just don't know of any States that have their own medical rules for transportation jobs.

Colorado makes you go get a medical from a DOT certified Doc, as far as I know. And with DOT being the parent of FAA... the double jeopardy still exists. ???

We'd have to convince broke State governments to provide a medical system that doesn't exist today. New bureaucracy to regulate it, etc.

Most of our AMEs here are also doing DOT trucking physicals. Usually both DOT and FAA on the sign out front. They'd all take a loss in customers to drop those, and have to "recertify" on a yet-to-be-created system. ???

I see where you're going, I just don't see any States doing it... needs work... got to come up with a reason to move trucking medicals out of DOT or more likely, find a different industry that States do medical certifications for that pilots could tack onto.

I can't think of any...? :(
 
steingar said:
I'll happily leave a comment, but I think there's a better chance of me becoming an airline Captain tomorrow than this proposal going anywhere. Before his little incident Randy Babbitt pretty much called it a non starter, and I doubt anyone in the FAA feels any different. Unless there is some solid Congressional support, I doubt anything will happen.

Sorry to be negative, but that' show I see it. Perhaps one of the more computer literate chaps can put up a link to make comments a more facile experience?
Click to expand...

There is one thing you are leaving out of the equation, cost. The whole 3rd class w/ SI system is highly costly with little benefit to the greater public. That budget is needed elsewhere.
 
Here's an interesting thought. Discrimination lawsuit. ;)

If the public can self-certify up to a certain vehicle weight, so can a pilot.

Already plenty of evidence that light aircraft can't easily kill/harm any more people under normal circumstances than a similarly sized car or truck can kill in a head-on collision.

Even if you do the "oh so scary terrorist act" of running them into buildings.

Spike! Get on that, would ya? ;)
 
The real problem with the third class medical is that the data indicate it confers a level of safety that is between negligible and nonexistent. Whatever you want to replace it with will have a similar effect, you're just moving the cost around, unless you're satisfied with the level of examination given for a driver's license.

And again, I see no reason for the FAA to give up on any of this. Until someone can come up with a good reason (probably in the form of an engaged congressperson with some pull) I honestly don't see this going anywhere.
 
I played professional baseball until I was 30. Now approaching 60, I race cars at 170 mph, race sailboats in open water competition. I competitively raced motocross and still ride dirt bikes all over the Mountains. I ride road bikes, jet skis, snowmobiles. I extreme ski in the Rocky Mountains and Canada between 9,000' and 12,000' elevations - I work 28 days straight, 13 hrs a day, 6 times a year as an oil consultant - yet I can't pass a 3rd class medical, attain a PPL or be PIC of a category of plane that I know I am capable of flying.

I was diagnosed with an ever so slight Mitral Valve Prolapse when I was 37, so I've taken a beta blocker for 23 years now with no change in condition or dosage. So slight is it, that when I recently went to a doctor for my overseas physical, he could not find it with his stethoscope. I've taken Synthroid for a Hypothyroid condition I was diagnosed with when I was 43 and I've been taking the smallest dosage of an SSRI that is available for the past 12 years.

I started flying with 2 pilot friends of mine around 2001. One owns a Bonanza v tail and a Robinson helicopter, the other owns a Super Decathlon, a C-182 and an Edge 300. Both are CFIs and hold many ratings. When my aerobatic loving friend discovered that I've wanted to be a pilot all of my life, he started taking me up with him and it lead to the beginning of my practical training. I went through the King Private Pilot course and Ron Machado's books. Over the period of 6 months I flew every plane mentioned above, spending most of the time flying the Decathlon and the 182. My favorites being the taildraggers. My training was quite extensive including day and night flying, instrument approaches, long distant cross country flying and extensive spins & unusual attitudes practice.

As I was approaching the time for my 1st solo, I knew I would need a 3rd class medical exam, but little did I know that my "conditions" and prescribed medication would make me ineligible to pass one. As I started to research about what a 3rd class exam entailed, the day came that my flying dream came crashing down around me. I started making excuses to my CFI friend as to why I couldn't go up with him or continue training and eventually he quit asking about it, then moved to another part of the state. That was 11 years ago.

When the rule change allowing Sports Pilots came about, I briefly considered it. Unfortunately, I am not satisfied in lazily meandering around the sky in a J3 or it's modern equivalents. I like flying fast, far, at night and in unusual attitudes. A 10,000' limit is ridiculousness. I bicycle, hike and ski at elevations higher than that (I live at 8000').

WE are fortunate to be living in a day and age where medical care has advanced to the point where we can physically function as if virtually nothing is wrong with us and allows us to do things at a much later age than any generation before us, however the dinosaurs controlling the FAA rule making are stifling 100's, perhaps 1000's like me who can now afford the training and the aircraft, and are effectively killing general aviation. Even though my 3 sons and daughter love to fly - I seriously doubt any of them will become pilots unless I buy a plane. So FAA, not only do you take me from one of the numbers who could be in General Aviation, you also potentially lose 4 more.

No - I am not satisfied with the availability of the Sports Pilot license, nor will I be with a Recreational license, if it is ever approved. It will not be until the dinosaurs in the FAA let loose of the antiquated idea that people like me should not be able to fly as a Private Pilot the plane I am capable of flying.

Instead I guess I'll buy that Edge off my friend since I can now afford it and pay him to come sit in the back seat while I fly him around the sky - just in case I become suddenly incapacitated.

3rd Class Medical = Will Never Be a Pilot
 
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