North Fox Isand - Soon?

North Fox was purchased by real estate magnate David V. Johnson in 1994 for $1.3 million, and the entire island was sold back to the state of Michigan for $2.2 million at the end of the year 2000.

Johnson built a paved runway and a residence on South Fox. He had originally proposed swapping North Fox Island with the state for the third of South Fox that he did not own, but he settled in 2003 for a consolidation deal which traded 218 acres (88 ha) of state owned land on the southern part of South Fox for 219 acres (89 ha) on the north and central parts of the same island. This deal was finalized in March 2003.

Wasn't aware he once owned it..
I have been in the paved South Fox several times. I've actually slept in his guest house. I'm glad I'm done with that job is all I will say...
 
Oliver and I flew to 6Y3 yesterday. The island is awesome and we met another couple that camped at North Fox Island. It is definitely worth the trip and we will be back soon with our camping gear... :D

Circling the island to get an impression and to lose altitude:
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Impressions of the beach from the air:
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Final approach RW 25 (background: South Fox Island)
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Walking the beach:
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Our lady parked at North Fox Island:
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There are more pictures at the 'Daily Pic' thread - I didn't want to post dublicates: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1881656&postcount=1630

Thank you Brad and everyone involved in getting this gem back to pilots!
 
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Thanks for the PIREP! Looks fantastic

You are very welcome!! Here are more pictures from the GoPro and Oliver currently works on the video... :D

North Fox Island:
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Take off RW 25 - you can see the other C172 sitting in the parking area:
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Low pass RW 25:
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Last picture from the south end and South Fox Island in the background:
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See you soon North Fox Island!! :yesnod:
 
Great pictures. Looks like you two are getting great use out of that airplane.
Enjoy!
 
VERY cool. :yes: Makes me homesick. (Also makes me wish I had a plane that's more short field capable. Those trees on either end would make getting out of there iffy in my Cardinal)
 
Iffy even with 3000'?

I shouldn't tell you how many calculations we (especially Oliver) did before we flew into 6Y3...:redface::rolleyes::lol: Not being able to get out of the 6Y3 was our main concern. We didn't have full tanks and nothing on board what we didn't really need for the trip. Our race horse made it in and out ok... :D:lol:

Martina
 
Similar to my first and only trip into 6Y9 and 2600'. Did some landings and takeoffs from a grass strip locally and compared it against the book to see how closely the Arrow flew to the book. It was pretty much dead on with the Piper Charts.
 
The advantage of having 250hp and no one else in the plane. Calculations? What are those? :rofl:
 
The advantage of having 250hp and no one else in the plane. Calculations? What are those? :rofl:
With two people and 235HP at 1800' we did at least back-of-the envelope calculations our first time. :goofy:
 
According to the article and I think I heard from Brad that it is 3000'

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Iffy even with 3000'?

I wouldn't say iffy, but we certainly wold have neither wanted full tanks nor a third person in the plane. What adds to the excitement is that the old 172's Owner's Manual reflects rather wishful thinking than a realistic takeoff performance. It also suggests to add only 7% to the take off distance if operated of a turf runway, what also appears insufficient.

We therefore took a reverse approach and calculated, based on know variables, which were the climb rate at Vx + the height of the trees + a generous safety margin at which point we would have to be off the ground in order to make it safely over the trees.

What really adds to the ground roll and what is very hard to calculate and pretty much an unknown before the first take off attempt, is the condition of the runway. If it is soft, the grass long or wet, it feels as if the parking brake would be engaged. To define a point at which the takeoff will have to be aborted, therefore appears mandatory.

If there is no clear visual mark for this abortion point, time can also be used as a guidance. Even though not exactly scientific, to take half of the rotation speed as the average speed for the ground roll and to calculate the max. time which may pass within the distance to the abortion point, is sufficiently precise. Once the time is calculated, one just needs to count 1-1000, 2-1000, ... to easily keep track of the passed time.
 
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Yes. It's 3000.

http://michigan.gov/documents/aero/North_Fox_Isl_497193_7.pdf

The 2000 and the 2200 are distance beyond displaced threshold - and I think those might even be incorrect on that page.
My eyes must be playing tricks on me then. I could swear it said 2200 x 100 on the diagram. If it's 3000, that should be very doable as long as the surface is hard. Even with full tanks, I've taken off on 36 at 57D, which is only 2200 feet. No tall trees to clear though.
 
My eyes must be playing tricks on me then. I could swear it said 2200 x 100 on the diagram. If it's 3000, that should be very doable as long as the surface is hard. Even with full tanks, I've taken off on 36 at 57D, which is only 2200 feet. No tall trees to clear though.

I *think* when they first published it, they did have the diagram as 2200ft, then quickly corrected it to 3000.
 
I wouldn't say iffy, but we certainly wold have neither wanted full tanks nor a third person in the plane. What adds to the excitement is that the old 172's Owner's Manual reflects rather wishful thinking than a realistic takeoff performance. It also suggests to add only 7% to the take off distance if operated of a turf runway, what also appears insufficient.

We therefore took a reverse approach and calculated, based on know variables, which were the climb rate at Vx + the height of the trees + a generous safety margin at which point we would have to be off the ground in order to make it safely over the trees.

What really adds to the ground roll and what is very hard to calculate and pretty much an unknown before the first take off attempt, is the condition of the runway. If it is soft, the grass long or wet, it feels as if the parking brake would be engaged. To define a point at which the takeoff will have to be aborted, therefore appears mandatory.

If there is no clear visual mark for this abortion point, time can also be used as a guidance. Even though not exactly scientific, to take half of the rotation speed as the average speed for the ground roll and to calculate the max. time which may pass within the distance to the abortion point, is sufficiently precise. Once the time is calculated, one just needs to count 1-1000, 2-1000, ... to easily keep track of the passed time.


I just count the cones, they are 200' apart.
 
I just count the cones, they are 200' apart.

Yup. Or use google maps. They have a scale on the bottom right. According to that I got 3,000.

Well, the timing thing comes in handy at airstrips without visual references (like cones) or when the progress in the takeoff roll can't be tracked in Google Maps... :wink2:

Quite a few pilots learned only when they hit the trees that there was a mismatch between what they thought the plane could do and what it actually did. :rolleyes:

To really understand at which point the plane must have left the ground in order to safely make it over the trees is IMHO mandatory for the safe operation out of such airfields - particularly if the airstrip is short or, like in our case at North Fox Island, the plane isn't too powerful.

We, for example, wanted to be at least 100 ft high at the tree line. Considering our plane's climb performance at the prevailing density altitude, we had to be off the ground about 1,600 feet before the trees, what left us only 1,400 ft for the ground roll and what was pretty much exactly what we needed. Actually we even cut a little bit into our safety margin, as it took us more like 1,500 ft. To get off the ground and to accelerate in ground effect to Vx.
 
Wow 1500' what was the DA and winds?

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Well, the timing thing comes in handy at airstrips without visual references (like cones) or when the progress in the takeoff roll can't be tracked in Google Maps... :wink2:

Yeah, absolutely. Didn't mean to come across as contradictory, was trying to *add* another way of looking at things. When faced with two sources of information, one saying 2200 and the other 3000, google maps can help you figure out which is correct during your pre-flight.

In the absence of landmarks, knowing that your plane should rotate at six-mississippi and you are still on the ground at eight is also useful information when decided whether or not to abort.
 
I think Oliver and me were referring to knowing how far down the runway you are during the takeoff roll, and not researching the total length of the runway. I have used google earth to pick out landmarks to determine where I should lift off and hoped that said landmarks were still there. With a moderate load the Arrow was usually airborn by 800' or four cones. Anything 1200 and I am thinking abort
 
Yeah, absolutely. Didn't mean to come across as contradictory, was trying to *add* another way of looking at things. When faced with two sources of information, one saying 2200 and the other 3000, google maps can help you figure out which is correct during your pre-flight.
Yep, and if there was any chance that I was going there in the near future, I would have found a way to determine the runway length accurately. Google Earth is certainly one way to do that. Consider that this is shooting the breeze on the internet, not preparation for a flight. I was just recalling the numbers I read some time ago, possibly before it was corrected.

Anyway I'm glad it's long enough for most light piston singles. I'd still have an ongoing concern about runway conditions though, since it's not like there's anyone you can call for updates. A new anthill or large woodchuck hole in the middle of the runway is all it would take to give you a very bad day in a tricycle gear plane.
 
I am hoping the club I am now a part of will release the Decathalon for rental soon. That would be a fine North Fox Airplane.
 
Wow 1500' what was the DA and winds? [...]

Density altitude was around 2500 ft, wind on Beaver Island was 11G18. Because of the high trees on North Fox Island, there was however 0 wind on the runway - until we came close to the top of the trees, where it became pretty turbulent.

With a short field take off, Martina and I need at 2000 ft DA on concrete close to 1050 feet to take off at the recommended rotation speed of 60 mph. On North Fox Island we however did not want to come to a full stop, as we did not want to take any chances to get stuck after we already got stuck in the parking area and needed another guy to help us pushing the plane out of the soft spot we parked in. The rolling start, the high DA and the turf runway increased the ground roll to close to 1500 ft.

I really don't want to dramatize things but try to raise the awareness for possible challenges, when flying backcountry airstrips, so that others can prepare accordingly.

Another thing is that the island provides no infrastructure, particularly no means of communication. It is therefore advisable to let somebody know where one is going and to make sure that this person knows who to call in case the plane doesn't show up by a certain time. To additionally carry a PLB and / or at least a SPOT also appears to be a good idea. Otherwise, something as simple as getting stuck in a soft spot in the parking area can quickly turn the day-trip into a week-long survival experience.

Certainly not rocket science, but there are a few more things to think about before going there.
 
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Well, we were 4500' DA on Saturday at 6Y9, so 1500 DA isn't surprising at all. That's only an extra 920' or so of "altitude"
 
According to MDOT it's 2200. Is that wrong?

I think you all have it figured out but here's what it is:
The total runway length is 3,000 ft. marked with cones 200 ft apart. From runway 7 there is a 1,000ft displaced threshhold leaving 2,000 from where you are suggested to touchdown (20 to 1 angle). From runway 25 there is an 800 ft. displaced threshold giving you 2,200 ft from where you should touch down.( again 20 to 1 angle
When you take off you have the full 3,000 ft. to get over the trees from either way.
Make sense now?

By the way it has a windsock as Mi. Aeronautics requires for it's "Unimproved Airport " category.
It does not accurately indicate wind ,but it is legal.
 
Yep, and if there was any chance that I was going there in the near future, I would have found a way to determine the runway length accurately. Google Earth is certainly one way to do that. Consider that this is shooting the breeze on the internet, not preparation for a flight. I was just recalling the numbers I read some time ago, possibly before it was corrected.

Anyway I'm glad it's long enough for most light piston singles. I'd still have an ongoing concern about runway conditions though, since it's not like there's anyone you can call for updates. A new anthill or large woodchuck hole in the middle of the runway is all it would take to give you a very bad day in a tricycle gear plane.

There are no wood chucks on the island,no deer, maybe one lonely coyote.
This time of year watch for migrating ducks and geese.
The ants build hills very slowly and we have removed them when we cut the tall grass.
You may call me for updates as I am Airport Manager for N. Fox 6Y3
Watch and check weather of conditions days in advance as well as the day you go and the day you plan to return. Take a NOAA weather radio with you .
The airstrip stays wet and soft for a day or two after a rain. I would suggest not going out until it dries. The fall will get wetter and take longer to dry out.
When the wind is no factor I suggest taking off on Rwy 7 as it is drier from a more sandy soil,but is packed well.
Even though 6Y3 is only 12 mi. from the paved airstrip on Beaver Island it is one of the most remote airstrips east of the Mississippi. Don't take a trip over there lightly and treat the island and airstrip with the greatest respect or we won't have it for long. The Michigan DNR is watching very closely and what we do with it and it will effect the outcome of it's continued use and other locations we are working on.

Brad Frederick 6Y3 Manager
1 248 761 5615 cell
bfrederick@theraf.org
 
Brad, with all due respect, to be able to give the kind of condition report I'd need to land on an unfamiliar grass strip, you would have to actually be there and have walked the runway within the past few hours.

I don't mean to demean the great work you and the RAF have done in restoring 6Y3, and I'm not suggesting that people who fly more grass-suitable airplanes should be as picky and as careful as I am. When I flew over to Basin Harbor a couple of weekends ago I called ahead, and that's a very well-maintained grass strip at a popular resort. I was still a bit nervous about it because I fly a Cardinal RG, a fair bit heavier than a 172 with smallish wheels. Because it's a retract it doesn't take a lot to damage the nosegear assembly, probably less than most fixed gear models. And it's SUPER easy for my plane to get stuck in soft grass that other planes have no trouble taxiing out of. This happened to me about 3 years ago at OEB when I was directed to park next to a Cherokee in the grass in March. An hour later I needed a tow to get out of there. So Oliver's story frankly gives me the willies.

Someday when I'm back in Michigan, if it's REALLY dry and someone has just taken off from there and can give me a CURRENT conditions report on the runway, I'll make the pilgrimage and experience this great bit of Michigan wilderness for myself. Thanks again for giving us this airstrip.
 
[...] So Oliver's story frankly gives me the willies.

Someday when I'm back in Michigan, if it's REALLY dry and someone has just taken off from there and can give me a CURRENT conditions report on the runway, I'll make the pilgrimage and experience this great bit of Michigan wilderness for myself. [...]

I did not mean to spook anybody off - it is a super nice airstrip, and probably as easy as a backcountry airfield can get. There are simply a few more things to take into consideration than if one flies into a +5000 ft. paved airport with a clear approach / departure.

Most planes should also do better than our O-300 powered 172. Do the math, try your plane's real world take off performance on a longer / less obstructed grass strip, take care of the safety stuff and you should be good to go. If you want to be on the safe side, you might want to go there with somebody else in a second plane as backup.
 
Brad, with all due respect, to be able to give the kind of condition report I'd need to land on an unfamiliar grass strip, you would have to actually be there and have walked the runway within the past few hours.

I don't mean to demean the great work you and the RAF have done in restoring 6Y3, and I'm not suggesting that people who fly more grass-suitable airplanes should be as picky and as careful as I am. When I flew over to Basin Harbor a couple of weekends ago I called ahead, and that's a very well-maintained grass strip at a popular resort. I was still a bit nervous about it because I fly a Cardinal RG, a fair bit heavier than a 172 with smallish wheels. Because it's a retract it doesn't take a lot to damage the nosegear assembly, probably less than most fixed gear models. And it's SUPER easy for my plane to get stuck in soft grass that other planes have no trouble taxiing out of. This happened to me about 3 years ago at OEB when I was directed to park next to a Cherokee in the grass in March. An hour later I needed a tow to get out of there. So Oliver's story frankly gives me the willies.

Someday when I'm back in Michigan, if it's REALLY dry and someone has just taken off from there and can give me a CURRENT conditions report on the runway, I'll make the pilgrimage and experience this great bit of Michigan wilderness for myself. Thanks again for giving us this airstrip.

You know your aircraft better than anyone. It is always safer to stay on the conservative side of the curve. I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else in going there. As a MDOT Aeronautics "Unimproved Airport" and lists "land at your own risk" in the airport regs.
By the way what Hp. is your engine?
 
You know your aircraft better than anyone. It is always safer to stay on the conservative side of the curve. I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else in going there. As a MDOT Aeronautics "Unimproved Airport" and lists "land at your own risk" in the airport regs.
By the way what Hp. is your engine?
It's a 200 hp engine -- all Cardinal RGs are use the 200hp IO-360 (unless they've been "upgraded" using the IO-390 STC). For its weight and power it's not a bad performer on hard surface runways but it's not a STOL bird, and it doesn't do well on any surface that's even a little bit soft.

Before Basin Harbor the last grass landing I did was 4 years ago at Woolsey Memorial up in the Leelanau. Beautiful, close-cropped turf runway, good slope downhill on 24, and a popular fly-in spot. I still wouldn't have done it except that my A&P was there doing someone's annual and was able to give me an up-to-date report. It was perfect.

Still, a couple of hours earlier a Mooney had suffered a prop strike taxiing off the runway. There was a rodent mound or some other bump there that you'd never see from the cockpit.

If I could afford to own two airplanes, my second would be something with a tailwheel for going into unimproved fields.
 
It's a 200 hp engine -- all Cardinal RGs are use the 200hp IO-360 (unless they've been "upgraded" using the IO-390 STC). For its weight and power it's not a bad performer on hard surface runways but it's not a STOL bird, and it doesn't do well on any surface that's even a little bit soft.

Before Basin Harbor the last grass landing I did was 4 years ago at Woolsey Memorial up in the Leelanau. Beautiful, close-cropped turf runway, good slope downhill on 24, and a popular fly-in spot. I still wouldn't have done it except that my A&P was there doing someone's annual and was able to give me an up-to-date report. It was perfect.

Still, a couple of hours earlier a Mooney had suffered a prop strike taxiing off the runway. There was a rodent mound or some other bump there that you'd never see from the cockpit.

If I could afford to own two airplanes, my second would be something with a tailwheel for going into unimproved fields.

Pusher prop would turn that Cardinal into a tailwheel Canard:yesnod:
 
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