NORDO Crop Dusters

[MauleSkinner]

An autonomous drone is probably less likely than a human to make that mistake.

I doubt it...the location error is going to be human either way, but the human pilot is less likely to follow through with the application.

 

[denverpilot]

Pretty sure I wasn't conceived there, just born there.

So confirmed sleepy? Parents stayed awake somewhere else. Ha.

 

[Timbeck2]

Haven’t been there in a while. Last time was to visit my aunt in the nursing home and it was pretty sleepy that day. Pre COVID

 

[A Martin]

.

Around 2009 at our local non-towered airport .... two crop dusters from the same company landing at the same time ... they hit "one on top of the other" just above the runway ... lower aircraft crashed and burst into flames but the pilot had been soaked in spilled chemical and was able to crawl out with just burns to his arms .... other plane ended up in a swamp beside the runway and pilot was OK
Crop-duster crash under investigation by safety board - Winnipeg Free Press

 

[farky]

We have 5 aircraft at the company I fly for and we have radios in every one of them. Boss man will get on us if we dont use them. We run almost exclusively off of county airports around the state of Ohio and it gets pretty busy with GA traffic in the summer. My only closer than normal incidents with other aircraft have been with other GA guys not using the radio, not us. Not all ag pilots are outlaws who think they own the airports. We land and take off whatever way is most convenient and quickest, but if there are other airplanes in the pattern, we go with the flow. And a lot of times when people hear an ag plane on the radio they offer to extend their pattern and let us jump in if we're close. Usually we are on the ground before they are remotely close to landing. I cant complain about our GA traffic at all.

 

[Brad Z]

Most that I have flown do have radios... The only portion of the flight that is regulated by part 137 is the actual application at the field. Flying to and from the farm field is regulated by part 91. Ag pilots that don’t work into the established traffic and follow right away rules per part 91 are not doing it right.

Actually, 137.45 allows ag operators to deviate from standard pattern ops...
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=pt14.3.137&rgn=div5#se14.3.137_145

§137.45 Nonobservance of airport traffic pattern.
Notwithstanding part 91 of this chapter, the pilot in command of an aircraft may deviate from an airport traffic pattern when authorized by the control tower concerned. At an airport without a functioning control tower, the pilot in command may deviate from the traffic pattern if—

(a) Prior coordination is made with the airport management concerned;

(b) Deviations are limited to the agricultural aircraft operation;

(c) Except in an emergency, landing and takeoffs are not made on ramps, taxiways, or other areas of the airport not intended for such use; and

(d) The aircraft at all times remains clear of, and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern for the airport.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Actually, 137.45 allows ag operators to deviate from standard pattern ops...
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=pt14.3.137&rgn=div5#se14.3.137_145

§137.45 Nonobservance of airport traffic pattern.
Notwithstanding part 91 of this chapter, the pilot in command of an aircraft may deviate from an airport traffic pattern when authorized by the control tower concerned. At an airport without a functioning control tower, the pilot in command may deviate from the traffic pattern if—

(a) Prior coordination is made with the airport management concerned;

(b) Deviations are limited to the agricultural aircraft operation;

(c) Except in an emergency, landing and takeoffs are not made on ramps, taxiways, or other areas of the airport not intended for such use; and

(d) The aircraft at all times remains clear of, and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern for the airport.

Paragraph (d) of the regulation you quoted is what some ag pilots don’t comply with and it gives the rest of us a bad name.

nothing in part 137 authorizes ag pilots to barge into a pattern and cause other aircraft in the existing flow of traffic to give way. I stand by my statement earlier in the thread. The behavior being described is not acceptable professionally or compliant with regulation.

I landed downwind and made opposite traffic quite often. It was coordinated with other traffic and I always gave right of way to other traffic. If there was enough traffic that it became difficult to accommodate my non-standard entry then I would join the established flow of traffic. That’s the way it’s done if regulation is followed.

 

[Brad Z]

Paragraph (d) of the regulation you quoted is what some ag pilots don’t comply with and it gives the rest of us a bad name.

nothing in part 137 authorizes ag pilots to barge into a pattern and cause other aircraft in the existing flow of traffic to give way. I stand by my statement earlier in the thread. The behavior being described is not acceptable professionally or compliant with regulation.

I landed downwind and made opposite traffic quite often. It was coordinated with other traffic and I always gave right of way to other traffic. If there was enough traffic that it became difficult to accommodate my non-standard entry then I would join the established flow of traffic. That’s the way it’s done if regulation is followed.

I’m just trying to make clear that at pilots flying right patterns at a left pattern airport are not violating regs, as those operating under a part 137 certificate are permitted to deviate from the pattern provided they meet the requirements of 137.45. Your statement that part 137 only applies to the application portion of the flight is not entirely correct.

I do agree that some at operators have a pretty liberal interpretation of “remains clear of, and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern”.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I’m just trying to make clear that at pilots flying right patterns at a left pattern airport are not violating regs, as those operating under a part 137 certificate are permitted to deviate from the pattern provided they meet the requirements of 137.45. Your statement that part 137 only applies to the application portion of the flight is not entirely correct.

I do agree that some at operators have a pretty liberal interpretation of “remains clear of, and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern”.

In real life most inspectors I have dealt with considered the aircraft to be part 91 when the chemical tanks were empty. As you know what’s written in the book doesn’t matter. What matters is how it’s enforced.

I agree with your statement about the regulations. I’m just saying that anecdotally it doesn’t matter and is not that way in application.