Non-towered Airport Line up and Wait

U

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I had turned final yesterday for 26 and made a CTAF announcement. As I was about halfway down final, an aircraft called that they were going to line up and wait on the opposite end (Rwy 8 and winds were calm) and that they had me in sight. I was pretty surprised as they taxied into position and sat there waiting for me to land. It was a 4000 foot runway so I ended up continuing the landing and turned off without a problem at midfield, but looking back on it I was disappointed that I didn't just go around and then question the other pilot. Anybody else see this happen or use this practice? It seems like a risk for a few seconds of savings.
 
With or without opposite direction traffic on final, being a sitting duck on runway with no Tower and no requirement to use a radio, seems like a particularly bad "I trust others to keep me safe" choice.

Can't see that bozo coming from behind who is so focused on his own landed he doesn't see you and betting the opposite direction traffic won't have a floating problem, doesn't appear to be conducive to a long flying career.
 
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Other people's kids....

I agree with your hindsight.
 
midlifeflyer said:
With or without opposite direction traffic on final, being a sitting duck on runway with no Tower and no requirement to use a radio, seems like a particularly bad "I trust others to keep me safe" choice.

Can't see that bozo coming from behind who is so focused on his own landed he doesn't see you and betting the opposite direction traffic won't have a floating problem, doesn't appear to be conducive to a long flying career.
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I'm with Mark -- doing a "line up and wait" at a non-towered airport is putting more faith than I care to give to another pilot I don't even know. And it's blind faith at that, if my back is turned to them.
 
Announce it may be a low pass or landing . Lol

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 
There is no line up and wait option ,at uncontrolled fields.
 
Non towered. I am not on that runway unless I am powering right up to take off.
 
midlifeflyer said:
With or without opposite direction traffic on final, being a sitting duck on runway with no Tower and no requirement to use a radio, seems like a particularly bad "I trust others to keep me safe" choice.

Can't see that bozo coming from behind who is so focused on his own landed he doesn't see you and betting the opposite direction traffic won't have a floating problem, doesn't appear to be conducive to a long flying career.
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Agree. I'd probably go around as landing traffic if I saw that guy sitting there.
 
Should have pretended to be another aircraft and called short final to Runway 8 and see what the guy sitting on the runway did. :D
 
kkoran said:
Should have pretended to be another aircraft and called short final to Runway 8 and see what the guy sitting on the runway did. :D
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:rofl: Or said you're giving the landing to your eight year-old and s/he can't reach the brakes. :)

dtuuri
 
By continuing the landing I believe you operated your aircraft in a manner that was careless or wreck less busting regs . You should have gone around.
 
Unregistered said:
Other end of a 4,000' runway, light bugsmashers, not wise but no big deal.
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I saw a plane lock up his tires, blow both of them, and run off the end of a 4,000 ft runway because he was fast, and landing in a tailwind. Just imagine if there was a plane sitting at that end of the runway....
 
Unregistered said:
By continuing the landing I believe you operated your aircraft in a manner that was careless or wreck less busting regs . You should have gone around.
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Of course it was "wreck less". There was no wreck.

Whether landing with another aircraft sitting stationary at the far end of the runway was automatically reckless even without a wreck is a separate question.

;)
 
I would have just said on the radio, you must have more faith in me or insurance than I do bugsmasher going around.

or maybe, been having trouble with these brakes can you see if they are smoking or anything when I get close.
 
Might get the point across to the interlocutor as to how stupid sitting there is, if your called go-around (silently) didn't result in a very good climb rate. Just enough to clear him.
 
Unregistered said:
I had turned final yesterday for 26 and made a CTAF announcement. As I was about halfway down final, an aircraft called that they were going to line up and wait on the opposite end (Rwy 8 and winds were calm) and that they had me in sight. I was pretty surprised as they taxied into position and sat there waiting for me to land. It was a 4000 foot runway so I ended up continuing the landing and turned off without a problem at midfield, but looking back on it I was disappointed that I didn't just go around and then question the other pilot. Anybody else see this happen or use this practice? It seems like a risk for a few seconds of savings.
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I can kind of see how you might go ahead and play along since you were so close to being committed to landing, but I agree with you that in hindsight you should have gone around, if for no other reason to let the other pilot know that it was sort of a jackass move.
 
Ugh. I would have gone around. Yeah, 4k feet should be plenty of rwy to stop. But, he said he had you in sight - how would you know it really was you he saw and not another plane in the pattern?

It's possible he went out onto the rwy without realizing there was another plane in the pattern, got lined up, heard your radio call or saw you, said "########, I guess I'm stuck here now", then made his announcement.
 
Matthew said:
Ugh. I would have gone around. Yeah, 4k feet should be plenty of rwy to stop. But, he said he had you in sight - how would you know it really was you he saw and not another plane in the pattern?

It's possible he went out onto the rwy without realizing there was another plane in the pattern, got lined up, heard your radio call or saw you, said "########, I guess I'm stuck here now", then made his announcement.
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That's kind of a stupid statement to make (not yours, his.) Usually when you say "I have you in sight" it means "I see you and I'm prepared to maneuver if necessary to avoid you." Which he's not going to be able to do very well if he's sitting stationary on the runway.
 
Sac Arrow said:
That's kind of a stupid statement to make (not yours, his.) Usually when you say "I have you in sight" it means "I see you and I'm prepared to maneuver if necessary to avoid you." Which he's not going to be able to do very well if he's sitting stationary on the runway.
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Yeah - if that really were the case, he'd have made a u-turn and gotten off the rwy.

I'd be concerned that the "traffic in sight" is the wrong aircraft - he sees one and gets fixated on it, then that airplane decides to leave the pattern or whatever, and the guy starts rolling without noticing the plane that's now on short final.

I see this mostly at airports with a lot of NORDO traffic (not the line up and wait part, though). I've seen plenty of times when a plane pauses (apparently looking for traffic), goes onto the rwy, sees the traffic turning final, and then turns around and pulls back off. That happens, and I don't think it's a big deal as long as it actually works - it is something to look out for when you are on final, though.
 
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I'd go ahead a land, then roll out long, and go nose to nose with the 'line up and wait' guy. Then, I'd shut down, get out, grab the tow bar and take a loooooooooooooooooooong time turning around, then put away my tow bar, then check the plane carefully, then get in, then deal with a hot start, then sloooooooooooooooooowly taxi back to the turn off and announce 'Podunk traffic, Spamcan 123, clear of runway - Podunk'.

But - that's just me.
 
Shawn said:
"Podunk traffic...Cessna XXXXX going around due to the runway incursion by the jackwaggon at the end of runway 26"..."Podunk"
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After hearing a couple of pilots tying up a local CTAF with a knock-down drag-out fight some years ago, I vowed to NEVER use the radio to express my opinions of someone else's flying (nor to respond to others' opinions of my flying.)
 
Unregistered said:
I had turned final yesterday for 26 and made a CTAF announcement. As I was about halfway down final, an aircraft called that they were going to line up and wait on the opposite end (Rwy 8 and winds were calm) and that they had me in sight. I was pretty surprised as they taxied into position and sat there waiting for me to land. It was a 4000 foot runway so I ended up continuing the landing and turned off without a problem at midfield, but looking back on it I was disappointed that I didn't just go around and then question the other pilot. Anybody else see this happen or use this practice? It seems like a risk for a few seconds of savings.
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I still can't understand the operational reason for the other pilot to do this. Was there no parallel taxiway, so he had to back taxi to get to the end of the runway?

I don't argue over the radio, so I would probably just go around, ask him to take off since he got on the runway first (even though it's he did so improperly), and side step to join the downwind to runway 8.
 
I can't understand everyone being so freaky about a stationary plane at the other end of a 4,000' runway. Yes he is at risk from being landed on from behind but that theoretical opposite to the op traffic is a greater risk to the op then the holding airplane. As for overruns, possible but hobby pilots are just as likely to go off the side and get you there. Holding anywhere near a runway and you are part sitting duck. Go fly at a busy gliderport when the lift turns off, no clear runways and no go arounds. We make it work. I do understand that moving onto the runway early was unnecessary and creates a slightly higher risk, it just ain't much. And ain't enough to get excited about. If you want sanitary runways only fly to/from class b airports. Everything else is dirty and free.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I can't understand everyone being so freaky about a stationary plane at the other end of a 4,000' runway.
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You're also a sitting duck when you get slow for the flare and he starts rolling. Even when you get flaps to full, you're much more vulnerable than you were at half.

You really don't know what someone stupid enough to plant themselves pointlessly on the runway is going to do next. I'd rather keep my airspeed and clean configuration and go around at the first indication of stupidity.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I can't understand everyone being so freaky about a stationary plane at the other end of a 4,000' runway. Yes he is at risk from being landed on from behind but that theoretical opposite to the op traffic is a greater risk to the op then the holding airplane. As for overruns, possible but hobby pilots are just as likely to go off the side and get you there. Holding anywhere near a runway and you are part sitting duck. Go fly at a busy gliderport when the lift turns off, no clear runways and no go arounds. We make it work. I do understand that moving onto the runway early was unnecessary and creates a slightly higher risk, it just ain't much. And ain't enough to get excited about. If you want sanitary runways only fly to/from class b airports. Everything else is dirty and free.
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I guess we just don't like an airplane pointing at us, with the engine running as we are landing. Just an uncomfortable feeling.
 
The kind of pilot who would taxi onto the runway with you on final is the kind of pilot who would accidentally take off while you were landing.

Going around would have been the right thing to do.

"Cessna *** going around due to runway incursion. Departing plane please advise when clear of runway and do not enter runways again with other traffic on final."
 
ClimbnSink said:
I can't understand everyone being so freaky about a stationary plane at the other end of a 4,000' runway. Yes he is at risk from being landed on from behind but that theoretical opposite to the op traffic is a greater risk to the op then the holding airplane. As for overruns, possible but hobby pilots are just as likely to go off the side and get you there. Holding anywhere near a runway and you are part sitting duck. Go fly at a busy gliderport when the lift turns off, no clear runways and no go arounds. We make it work. I do understand that moving onto the runway early was unnecessary and creates a slightly higher risk, it just ain't much. And ain't enough to get excited about. If you want sanitary runways only fly to/from class b airports. Everything else is dirty and free.
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So what is too risky in your opinion? If it's a 6,000 foot runway and he pulls out in an intersection 2/3 down (4,000'). Is that okay?
 
Kritchlow said:
So what is too risky in your opinion? If it's a 6,000 foot runway and he pulls out in an intersection 2/3 down (4,000'). Is that okay?
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You folks are basing your fears on emotion not logic. Too much time being trained and flying as make believe big airplane pilots. We all go head to head with opposite direction texting traffic on nondivided highways all day long. An airplane sitting nearly a mile away on the same runway is not a significant safety threat.
 
ClimbnSink said:
You folks are basing your fears on emotion not logic. Too much time being trained and flying as make believe big airplane pilots. We all go head to head with opposite direction texting traffic on nondivided highways all day long. An airplane sitting nearly a mile away on the same runway is not a significant safety threat.
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I guess we all have our own opinions. If I'm looking at him facing the other direction I may or may not see that he has started his takeoff roll for example.

If he thinks you're at taxi speed at 1500 feet, and he needs 1000 to get airborn, is it okay if he starts his takeoff roll at that point?
 
I was always taught it's bad form to land on an occupied runway. Simple answer for me. I wouldn't land in the given situation. The airplane on the runway has the right of way. Bad form on the other guy's part? That isn't my problem. Landing on an occupied runway would also be bad form and that is my problem.
 
OP doesn't say what type AC he was flying, so don't know the landing roll. LUAW is stupid at a pilot controlled field but wouldn't have gone around in anything I'm currently flying.
 
ClimbnSink said:
You folks are basing your fears on emotion not logic. Too much time being trained and flying as make believe big airplane pilots. We all go head to head with opposite direction texting traffic on nondivided highways all day long. An airplane sitting nearly a mile away on the same runway is not a significant safety threat.
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Logic states not to sit on the oppisite runway that a plane is landing on, especially when for all he knows I'm some weekend warrior that might take up the entire runway.

Establishing logic doesn't run deep in the dude sitting on the runway I'm landing on, for all I know dodo might decide to start his takeoff roll before I land.

My life rocks, I like my airplane and I like my career in aviation, I just wouldn't mess with it, go around and give the boy a reeducation if possible.
 
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