Non IR Safety Pilot

inav8r

inav8r

Line Up and Wait
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Mike B.
A IR-rated friend of mine has asked me to be a safety pilot for him while he brushes up on his skills and does some practice approaches. While I'm current and rated to fly his plane - I've not yet done any IR training.

Is it a bad idea (in general) to have a non IR safety pilot?
 
Why would it be Mike. a PPL can see out the window and fly if needed in VFR and thats what a saftey pilot does.
 
AdamZ said:
Why would it be Mike. a PPL can see out the window and fly if needed in VFR and thats what a saftey pilot does.
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Adam has it. As long as your comfortable flying and landing his plane (if needed) in VFR conditions, then you can be safety for him (in VFR conditions).
 
Grab the opportunity. As Adam said, you're going to be VFR, so it's nothing you've not done before. You'll also get the chance to learn a thing or two! Since he's already IR, it's not as if you're expected to be teaching him anything; just looking for traffic and obstacles on the approach. (Though if he's flying it right, you shouldn't be getting near any of them!)
 
Bill Jennings said:
Adam has it. As long as your comfortable flying and landing his plane (if needed) in VFR conditions, then you can be safety for him (in VFR conditions).
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Curious why he should be comfortable landing the plane?
 
To be honest I feel completely safe with the see and avoid responsibilities, I was just wondering what others opinions were on the subject.

I see this as a great vehicle to expose me to the concepts and components of IFR flying - as I hope to someday start on my IR.

The only thing I wouldn't be comfortable with is landing his plane from the right seat - but I suppose in an emergency I'd figure it out right quick.
 
No reason to expect any more of an emergency when you're safety pilot than when you're just a passenger!
 
inav8r said:
A IR-rated friend of mine has asked me to be a safety pilot for him while he brushes up on his skills and does some practice approaches. While I'm current and rated to fly his plane - I've not yet done any IR training.

Is it a bad idea (in general) to have a non IR safety pilot?
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Your duties as safety pilot for a PIC under the hood are for traffic see and avoid. If you wish to have and accept more duties assigned to you, your experience with the aircraft and safety tasks/backup should be appropriate to the duties accepted for that particular aircraft and PIC.
 
ejensen said:
Curious why he should be comfortable landing the plane?
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You're right! No reason to be able to land the plane. Duh.
 
Personally, I only use instr. rated safety pilots. I want someone who knows where to look if someone calls in on another part of the approach, etc., or is entering a hold ahead of us, or is leaving a hold and descending, or whatever. I want someone who can read a 3-d like picture of the appch in their brains and at least have a good idea where someone is. Where they claim to be.

On the other hand, non IR safety pilots fly on practice runs every day and do fine.
 
Good way to get up in the air as well as you get to see the IFR pilot in action.

Have fun!
 
I've done it and it's a blast. It's easy to know where to look if your 'praticing pilot' and you do a good preflight breif together. The guy I saftey pilot for pulls out all the approaches and holds he's planning on doing and goes over them with me before we take off. It's great because I learn a bunch and the best way to really learn something is to teach it so he learns more when he breifs me. He's not IR yet but around here it's hard to find saftey pilots so he calls me a good deal. I'm also planning on starting too... now where did I put that CFII's number!

Missa
 
I fly SIC safety pilot when Hubby is under the hood for practice approaches. I require him to fully brief the approach to me, explaining altitudes, frequencies, and where they start. I am always watching out the window and when ATC reports traffic, I respond. Otherwise, he responds. Once he is at decision height, he removes the hood and completes the landing or the "missed". It helps us both. Someday I will begin my IFR training.

- Aunt Peggy
 
Just remember, your job is to look out the window, not critique the approach. You are there to make sure he doesn't hit another plane, an obstacle, the ground, or lose control.

I had a CFII-in-training fly safety for me one time. He thought he was being helpful by giving me flying tips. We wound up flying underneath another plane that was on final.
 
JustinPinnix said:
Just remember, your job is to look out the window, not critique the approach. You are there to make sure he doesn't hit another plane, an obstacle, the ground, or lose control.

I had a CFII-in-training fly safety for me one time. He thought he was being helpful by giving me flying tips. We wound up flying underneath another plane that was on final.
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Oo ya never foget that! But you can point out the obviouse like when he's getting left of course on an ILS apprach (specially at IPT where there is a mountian to the left!) I let him go for a while to see if he would catch it on his own (the mountian was still far enough away) but eventually pointed it out to him.

Missa
 
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If the safety pilot can see terrain that the manipulating pilot is going to hit, then fine, say something. But unless safety of flight is involved, a non-instructor safety pilot is not there to critique technique or point out deviations on the CDI, ASI, or altimeter -- that is diverting the safety pilot's attention inside when it should be outside looking for airplanes, obstacles, or terrain.
 
Ron Levy said:
If the safety pilot can see terrain that the manipulating pilot is going to hit, then fine, say something. But unless safety of flight is involved, a non-instructor safety pilot is not there to critique technique or point out deviations on the CDI, ASI, or altimeter -- that is diverting the safety pilot's attention inside when it should be outside looking for airplanes, obstacles, or terrain.
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Mountian or no Mountian, if the praticing pilot is on an ILS approach and is not on course. It's fairly easy to tell just from looking outside.

Our conversation went like this. "Are you intending to land this time or just pratice the approach?"; "Land"; "Then you may want to get on course". We still were not close enough to the terrain for me to be conserned about it but if his intention was to land he was going to have trouble with how far off course he was. Plus we had a back seat non pilot passenger and I didn't want her to get nervous.

The only other time I offered advice was when we were turning right/left/right/left and I could SEE the VOR. "Want some advice?"; "uhm, sure"; "Stop Chasing the needle, we're too close"; "Figured that was what you were going to say".

These were all things I noticed from looking outside the AC not at the gauges. I spend the majority of my time looking outside but occasionally check the altimiter/VSI. Those bloody towers are terribly hard to spot and I just check to make sure he's above the min altitude and not trending down, not that he's on his altitude.

Missa
 
Briefing the approach before beginning the approach is a good part of crew resource management. It helps both pilots to be ahead of the plane and anticipating the next change in direction and altitude.

If I see a plane off to the right and know he will be turning toward it, that is the point where I say something. It the plane is to the left, I watch and keep us safe. Knowing where we will be descending below pattern altitude is another way I keep us safe.

It is not my job to critique the approach. If the runway starts wandering off to the side, and we are still safe, I bite my tongue. If we are way high, same thing. If we are too low, he hears about it.

It's good practice for both of us, because he briefs approaches to me in IMC, too. Then, while he is making the approach on instruments, I am looking out the window for traffic and the runway.

- Aunt Peggy
 
Ron Levy said:
If the safety pilot can see terrain that the manipulating pilot is going to hit, then fine, say something. But unless safety of flight is involved, a non-instructor safety pilot is not there to critique technique or point out deviations on the CDI, ASI, or altimeter -- that is diverting the safety pilot's attention inside when it should be outside looking for airplanes, obstacles, or terrain.
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I agree with this 100%, Ron. In fact, I intend to live this advice. :) Eye's outside and enjoy the view!
 
AuntPeggy said:
It is not my job to critique the approach. If the runway starts wandering off to the side, and we are still safe, I bite my tongue. If we are way high, same thing. If we are too low, he hears about it.
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Agreeded. I bite my tonge too, he is trying to learn and won't if I tell him stuff. I probally would have bit it longer if there wasn't a back seat passenger.

Missa
 
I know of a lot of the old timers out here that just use their wives if they need a safety pilot.

Just dont trade paint or bend anything... :)
 
AirBaker said:
I know of a lot of the old timers out here that just use their wives if they need a safety pilot.

Just dont trade paint or bend anything... :)
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And, when they log the practice approaches, do they record who the "safety pilot" was? Seems like it might be legitimate practice, but not properly-loggable.
 
Hubby logs me as safety pilot lots of time.
- Aunt Peggy
 
Nothing wrong with using a spouse to log some hood time with them as safety pilot as long as the spouse is properly rated to perform that function.
 
We did the approaces Saturday morning. It really opened my eyes up - and wide!

On the first VOR approach, while he was flying the approach flawlessly (well, compared to the briefing and what I was expecting) we were blown off centerline by about 2 miles... I can't imagine flying a non-precision approach to mins!! On the next non-precision approach he better corrected for the winds but we still didn't wind up near the centerline at the decision point. (Sorry if I'm getting the terminology wrong here).

All in all it was a good learning experience - and it's given me the itch to start on my own IR! Besides I got to go flying and it didn't cost me anything!
 
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