Night flying and weather

[HPNFlyGirl]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

 

[ScottM]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

It is.

On one occasion while i was still VFR only i was flying home form dinners when the lights went out below me. I had flow over and undercast. I realized that it was not any clearer up ahead so I did 180 and was able to decend below the clouds for the rest of the flight home.

lesson learned is to be carefull and really watch for clues about what is happening with clouds and be prepared at all time for WX. The undercast was not forecasted to happen for another 4 hours.

 

[tonycondon]

Yes brook, it is easy to get caught in/over clouds at night. i once was trying to get a guy to Champaigne, IL from Ames and a cold front had gone through with the usual thunderstorms during the day. All the junk behind had started to clear out by the time we left ames, and I was hoping the Tstorms would be moved out of Central IL by the time i got there. As we got closer and closer, clouds got lower and lower. No moonlight to see ground with. had to do a 180 at one point and descend to get lower. i got sick of that crap pretty fast, set my hard deck for not going any lower and if i encountered clouds from there, would do a 180, and land at nearest airport, screw the man. got to talking to Peoria approach, they informed me Champaigne was 500 OVC with tstorms at the field. guy (airplane owner, frequent passenger, not a pilot) in the right seat says "arent you IFR rated?" i say no way and we land at Lincoln County. his wife drives an hour to come get him.

the side story is the airplane was equipped for basic IFR but we chose to not file IFR. Reason was that the guy that was passenger would push and push if we were IFR, but going VFR allowed us to pick the good weather. Me and other pilot on trip filed IFR and flew home IFR without passenger.

im not doing that again.

 

[sbonek]

On my night X-C, me and my instructor discussed if it was a go or no-go, due to some clouds being along our route. We both agreed to go for it, and if we encountered any, we can always do a 180 and head back. It was a nice fall night, actually a Friday night because I remember how cool it was to see the High School football fields with their lights on. As we were heading across the north part of the Indy Class C on the way to Terre Haute (KHUF), we both started noticing the ground wasn't as clear as it was a few minutes ago. It didn't take long before we both agreed it was time for a 180 and to head back to KMQJ, so we told ATC what we were going to do and then did it.

I'm actually glad it happened, because it gave me a good feeling for the difference between being under the hood and when you can see the windshield, but not being able to see the horizon. Flying under the hood was easy for me, just focus on the instruments. But when you can see the windshield, but not the horizon, I could see how you can easily get disoriented.

 

[Steve]

It depends.

On a clear night with a full/nearly full moon it is fairly easy to spot the clouds. On hazy, moonless night with few ground references is it harder to see clouds, but it's not impossible. Keeping an eye on the stars and planets will help. Lightning will look a lot closer at night, too, so keep that in mind.

Familiarity with the area also helps, if you know where the ground lights should be, you'll be quicker at spotting a potential undercast.

 

[spiderweb]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

Yes, it is. I file IFR. Seriously, I vowed never to fly night VFR unless in the local area. This is one of the reasons I got my IR.

 

[gprellwitz]

Yes, it is. I file IFR. Seriously, I vowed never to fly night VFR unless in the local area. This is one of the reasons I got my IR.

So how would you go about getting your commercial? I suppose you could do it under VFR conditions as required, but still file IFR. Wait, though, it says "VFR", not "VMC", so I guess that means you couldn't file after all.

One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

[gprellwitz]

To add a little more on point, yes, it's harder to fly VFR at night. As Steve mentioned, lightning looks uncomfortably close. As in something 100nm away looks as if you're going to hit it in 25nm. Also, it's much harder to judge the distance to clouds. "Someone" started a descent once to go underneath some clouds in their path, only to find themselves in them. Not a happy-making experience. Autopilot is your friend.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

Yes, it is. On a moonless night out in the country, you may not see clouds until you're in 'em. Not good.

Approaching a large city, it's often possible to see clouds due to city lights disappearing in spots, or if they're above you by the reflection of the lights off the clouds. Still not ideal.

Full moon out, you're in much better shape as long as there's not an overcast above. You'll be able to see clouds that are lower than you better than those above, but IMHO night flying is safest with lots of moonlight or on a clear night.

It should go without saying, but Do NOT EVER scud run at night. If you can't remain well above the MEF's on your sectional chart, you shouldn't be flying. Too much terrain and obstacles out there that you won't be able to see. Even lit towers have unlit guy wires. Trees and mountains aren't lit either.

So, stay high, try to fly when there's a relatively full moon high in the sky, and study the charts carefully. And enjoy! Night flying can be very peaceful if done correctly.

 

[poadeleted20]

So how would you go about getting your commercial? I suppose you could do it under VFR conditions as required, but still file IFR. Wait, though, it says "VFR", not "VMC", so I guess that means you couldn't file after all.

Your interpretation agrees with AFS-800's. They want that flight flown VFR, in VMC, using basic pilotage/DR (not electronic) means of navigation. When I'm involved, we pick only nights with near-perfect weather for those night VFR XC's, and avoid the rugged terrain to the west of DC, usually running up and down the NJ/DE/Eastern MD/Eastern VA area, where it's flat and generally unobstructed.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

Brook, so much so that the Chief Instructor at Robinson Helicopter kept harping on it in the safety course I completed today at the factory. Of course no R22 or R44 is certified for IFR and most don't have the gyros -- our R22 has an AI and TC, our new R44 has an AI and slip/skid ball only. I doubt either ship will ever be flown at night except to satisft training requirements.

I don't even want to think of flying at night in either ship except with strong moonlight and perfect weather!

 

[cameronbm]

Night flight is harder than day, you've not seen black until you've flown over northern MN on a moonless night. Clouds can sneak up on you and often can present you with a false horizon. On the other hand, there's less turbulence, its easier to spot other planes and ATC isn't as busy.

I won't fly VFR night unless it is almost perfect (CAVU) weather.
Bruce

 

[ScottM]

Night flight is harder than day, you've not seen black until you've flown over northern MN on a moonless night. Clouds can sneak up on you and often can present you with a false horizon. On the other hand, there's less turbulence, its easier to spot other planes and ATC isn't as busy.

I won't fly VFR night unless it is almost perfect (CAVU) weather.
Bruce

During my primary training with the instructor I flew out over Lake Michigan on a moonless, overcast night. I was under the hood for the flight out. he asked me to remove my hood and look out. It was like the eyeballs were being sucked out of my head. I then looked down and was in a nice left turning dive. Had to go back on the guages or turn and look at the city lights.

Very good lesson though.

 

[TMetzinger]

Your interpretation agrees with AFS-800's. They want that flight flown VFR, in VMC, using basic pilotage/DR (not electronic) means of navigation. When I'm involved, we pick only nights with near-perfect weather for those night VFR XC's, and avoid the rugged terrain to the west of DC, usually running up and down the NJ/DE/Eastern MD/Eastern VA area, where it's flat and generally unobstructed.

Ron,

If they want it do be done using pilotage and DR as primary methods of navigation, why don't they say so? There's nothing in the reg to prevent someone from using electronic navigation. Regardless of the (as usual) kinda crappy reg writing, I agree that max value is gained when this flight is done the way you describe.

Edit: Never mind. I forgot that this reg applies to a DUAL flight, in which case they can circulate the appropriate "guidance" to the instructors.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Your interpretation agrees with AFS-800's. They want that flight flown VFR, in VMC, using basic pilotage/DR (not electronic) means of navigation.

Ron, do you have that confirmed via recent request for interpretation, or are you once again irresponsibly quoting AFS-800 disowned material as current fact?

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Edit: Never mind. I forgot that this reg applies to a DUAL flight, in which case they can circulate the appropriate "guidance" to the instructors.

FWIW, no such "guidance" currently exists.

 

[spiderweb]

So how would you go about getting your commercial? I suppose you could do it under VFR conditions as required, but still file IFR. Wait, though, it says "VFR", not "VMC", so I guess that means you couldn't file after all.

I think you are right. So, I would bite the bullet. But I would study the MEFs like hell and memorize the sectionals. And I'd get my twin rating first, and fly it in that.

 

[spiderweb]

Your interpretation agrees with AFS-800's. They want that flight flown VFR, in VMC, using basic pilotage/DR (not electronic) means of navigation. When I'm involved, we pick only nights with near-perfect weather for those night VFR XC's, and avoid the rugged terrain to the west of DC, usually running up and down the NJ/DE/Eastern MD/Eastern VA area, where it's flat and generally unobstructed.

And that's exactly what I would do. BWI-OXB-maybe ILG or something-BWI

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Brook, so much so that the Chief Instructor at Robinson Helicopter kept harping on it in the safety course I completed today at the factory. Of course no R22 or R44 is certified for IFR and most don't have the gyros -- our R22 has an AI and TC, our new R44 has an AI and slip/skid ball only. I doubt either ship will ever be flown at night except to satisft training requirements.

I don't even want to think of flying at night in either ship except with strong moonlight and perfect weather!

They do night flying in R22s during private training out of BFI, it's no big deal. Is night flying required for PPL, helicopter?

 

[SkyHog]

FWIW, no such "guidance" currently exists.

Which guidance is that, Ed? I actually have a letter from the local FSDO that answers a bunch of questions about the night cross country for the commercial rating.

I can't find it right now, but I'm looking.

 

[poadeleted20]

If they want it do be done using pilotage and DR as primary methods of navigation, why don't they say so? There's nothing in the reg to prevent someone from using electronic navigation. Regardless of the (as usual) kinda crappy reg writing, I agree that max value is gained when this flight is done the way you describe.

Because they're not very good at anticipating all the ways folks work to circumvent their efforts to get folks to use basic procedures. They thought that saying "VFR" would be enough; they were wrong.

 

[poadeleted20]

FWIW, no such "guidance" currently exists.

And which FSDO told you that?

 

[jdwatson]

Night flight is harder than day, you've not seen black until you've flown over northern MN on a moonless night. Clouds can sneak up on you and often can present you with a false horizon. On the other hand, there's less turbulence, its easier to spot other planes and ATC isn't as busy.

I won't fly VFR night unless it is almost perfect (CAVU) weather.
Bruce

On approach to RDU's RWY32, you fly over Umstead Park. It's a forest and presents pilots with the classic "black hole" approach, complete with short upsloping runway for fun with visual effects. It's easy to lose the horizon & the runway once at TPA. Once you've conquered RWY 32 at night or in IMC you feel that you really have accomplished something.

I think ground operations at night are very tricky. Pays to know signage and have a taxi diagram handy. I'm not bashful to ask for a progressive at night if I'm unfamilar.

 

[123456]

So how would you go about getting your commercial? I suppose you could do it under VFR conditions as required, but still file IFR. Wait, though, it says "VFR", not "VMC", so I guess that means you couldn't file after all.

Would there be a poll established before making the decision?

 

[RotaryWingBob]

They do night flying in R22s during private training out of BFI, it's no big deal. Is night flying required for PPL, helicopter?

Night is required, Dave, but there's no hood requirement. It's not a big deal until you fly into a cloud, and then you generally lack the gyros to help you figure out how to keep the ship straight and level.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

So how would you go about getting your commercial? I suppose you could do it under VFR conditions as required, but still file IFR. Wait, though, it says "VFR", not "VMC", so I guess that means you couldn't file after all.

It says "in night VFR conditions". [italics mine] I know the difference between VFR (rules) and VMC (conditions). Sounds like the FAA goofed calling it "VFR conditions" in the rule. "VFR conditions" sounds like "VMC" to me. I wonder if the flight can be made in VMC, night, on an IFR flight plan. Has the FAA's General Counsel provided any guidance, Reverand?

 

[poadeleted20]

It says "in night VFR conditions". [italics mine] I know the difference between VFR (rules) and VMC (conditions). Sounds like the FAA goofed calling it "VFR conditions" in the rule. "VFR conditions" sounds like "VMC" to me. I wonder if the flight can be made in VMC, night, on an IFR flight plan. Has the FAA's General Counsel provided any guidance, Reverand?

To my knowledge, the question has never been brought to AGC-200's attention. AFS-800's published position prior to the de-officialization of the Part 61 FAQ file was: "The intended conditions of these cross-country flights are '. . . VFR conditions . . .' The use of pilotage and/or dead reckoning navigation is the intended cross-country training in § 61.129(a)(3)(iii) and (iv)." I know of no change to this position on the part of AFS-800, although you can ask your local FSDO if there has been a change.

 

[gprellwitz]

I figure that I'll stick with the rule's intent, as long as it is in accordance with the letter. Thus, I'll fly it with only a VFR flight plan and flight following. OTOH, I'll also probably do it as part of a G1000 checkout flight, to maximize value.

I'm not shy about doing long night cross-countries. I'm always watching the GPS ("nearest airport" is always nice) and verifying it against the chart. I also fly high (5000+ AGL) so I have better options. Since I'm usually with Leslie, though, all my long cross countries don't meet the solo requirement, though.

But I would study the MEFs like hell and memorize the sectionals. And I'd get my twin rating first, and fly it in that.

Multi would be nice, but, since I would need another 200 hours before I could rent it alone (our 310 requires 500 hours), I figure I'll do the commercial first.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think you are right. So, I would bite the bullet. But I would study the MEFs like hell and memorize the sectionals. And I'd get my twin rating first, and fly it in that.

Ben,

It's not entirely clear from your post: Do you mean you'd get your commercial multi first, or that you'd get your private multi and fly the cross-country for the multi, then do your commercial in the single (which is what I thought when I first read the post)?

If the latter, no can do:

§ 61.129 Aeronautical experience.

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure

I'm still tossing up whether to do the single or multi first.

 

[poadeleted20]

When deciding whether to do Comm-SE or Pvt-ME first, keep in mind that it takes three checkrides (Pvt-SE, Comm-SE, Comm-ME add-on) the first way, and four checkrides (Pvt-SE, Pvt-ME add-on, Comm-ME, Comm-SE add-on) the second. OTOH, if you go the first way, you get to log 30 hours or so of ME PIC time during your initial Comm-ME training (dual and solo), whereas with the second path, your Comm-ME training isn't logged as PIC (unless you find someone to let you solo a twin and get 10 hours of PIC time that way -- not likely).

 

[flyingcheesehead]

When deciding whether to do Comm-SE or Pvt-ME first, keep in mind that it takes three checkrides (Pvt-SE, Comm-SE, Comm-ME add-on) the first way, and four checkrides (Pvt-SE, Pvt-ME add-on, Comm-ME, Comm-SE add-on) the second. OTOH, if you go the first way, you get to log 30 hours or so of ME PIC time during your initial Comm-ME training (dual and solo), whereas with the second path, your Comm-ME training isn't logged as PIC (unless you find someone to let you solo a twin and get 10 hours of PIC time that way -- not likely).

Ron,

I think you got those backwards...

 

[gprellwitz]

When deciding whether to do Comm-SE or Pvt-ME first, keep in mind that it takes three checkrides (Pvt-SE, Comm-SE, Comm-ME add-on) the first way, and four checkrides (Pvt-SE, Pvt-ME add-on, Comm-ME, Comm-SE add-on) the second. OTOH, if you go the first way, you get to log 30 hours or so of ME PIC time during your initial Comm-ME training (dual and solo), whereas with the second path, your Comm-ME training isn't logged as PIC (unless you find someone to let you solo a twin and get 10 hours of PIC time that way -- not likely).

Actually, the solo time in a twin can be "supervised solo" with an instructor.

10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section)

This woud seem to mean that you could go Pvt-SE, Comm-ME, Comm-SE add-on, with no need to ever get a pvt-ME. This seems to be he route that one of my instructors was telling me about last night.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Actually, the solo time in a twin can be "supervised solo" with an instructor.

Grant, I think Ron's point was that if you go that route, after your multi checkride the only AMEL PIC you'll have is from the checkride itself, as the only way to log Multi PIC without being rated in category and class is to solo it.

OTOH, if you get PP-AMEL first, the remainder of the comm-AMEL training can be logged as PIC since you will be rated in category and class already.

This woud seem to mean that you could go Pvt-SE, Comm-ME, Comm-SE add-on, with no need to ever get a pvt-ME. This seems to be he route that one of my instructors was telling me about last night.

I may be doing that one myself, for three reasons: 1) The rental Arrow has been in the shop for over a month (I think someone gear-upped it and it's in the midst of an engine teardown), 2) Even when the rental Arrow is available, it's a damn T-Tail with the associated CG envelope problems and my CFI and I can't fly it without putting 125lbs in the baggage compartment, despite being within the envelope just fine on the trusty old Arrow III, 3) If I do the Comm-AMEL first, I can do the Comm-ASEL in a fixed-gear plane, which means I could do it in a club plane instead of a rental, so I'd make up for some of the $$$ I'd be spending by doing the multi first.

Disadvantages: By virtue of my routine recreational flying, I already have all of the requirements done for the Comm-ASEL except for the dual requirements.

 

[gprellwitz]

Grant, I think Ron's point was that if you go that route, after your multi checkride the only AMEL PIC you'll have is from the checkride itself, as the only way to log Multi PIC without being rated in category and class is to solo it.

Yeah, he may have meant that and I missed it. Probably because it wouldn't help me, since I wouldn't be able to rent the 310 anyway, since I don't have the requisite 500 hours. So, while it may be generally true, it unfortunately doesn't fit my particular situation. [edit: That's actually not quite true, since the hours you flew "supervised solo" count as PIC for the Comm-MEL. I think you're right that they don't count anywhere else, though!]

OTOH, if you get PP-AMEL first, the remainder of the comm-AMEL training can be logged as PIC since you will be rated in category and class already.



I may be doing that one myself, for three reasons: 1) The rental Arrow has been in the shop for over a month (I think someone gear-upped it and it's in the midst of an engine teardown), 2) Even when the rental Arrow is available, it's a damn T-Tail with the associated CG envelope problems and my CFI and I can't fly it without putting 125lbs in the baggage compartment, despite being within the envelope just fine on the trusty old Arrow III, 3) If I do the Comm-AMEL first, I can do the Comm-ASEL in a fixed-gear plane, which means I could do it in a club plane instead of a rental, so I'd make up for some of the $$$ I'd be spending by doing the multi first.

Disadvantages: By virtue of my routine recreational flying, I already have all of the requirements done for the Comm-ASEL except for the dual requirements.

I'm in a similar situation, since our only SE-complex (also an Arrow) has been taken off the rental line. That's the reason I'm considering this route. Another alternative is to guarantee enough complex usage for a month or two that it becomes financially advantageous to put the Arrow back online for that period, so I could do the Comm-SE first. That 500hr requirement makes the 310 expensive to fly even after I have the MEL, since I would need an instructor with me when maintaining currency. And that's a plane that you can't just jump back into after 6 months away and expect to fly!

While I certainly have the cross-country experience, little of it is solo, since Leslie's usually with me. She almost had the solo cross country taken care of, since her private solo cross country included 1C5 - MDH, a leg of 240.7nm. She did her entire solo cross coutry work for the private in a single day.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

And which FSDO told you that?

Well, Ron, if as a good CFI you'd asked for clarification of the FAQ file information prior to publishing it as being current AFS-800 policy you'd have the positive proof of "current guidance" (if such indeed exists) now wouldn't you?

But no, you didn't ask for verification. No, not at all. Despite being aware of an AFS-800 requirement to obtain verification you didn't heed the following direct guidance, as written by the top dog of AFS-800 itself:

"Henceforth, the answers provided in the Part 61 and 141 "FAQ" files are not to be considered official Flight Standards policy without first receiving verification from the General Aviation and Commercial Division, AFS-800."

I find that rather deplorable behavior, especially coming from a CFI, what with spreading false information and all.

I'm curious, Ron, what part of that rather simple sentence do you find so difficult? Is it the phrase, "...not to be considered official Flight Standards policy..."? Or is it, "...without first receiving verification from the General Aviation and Commercial Division, AFS-800..."? Which do you find so difficult to comprehend?

Seems rather straightforward to me.

 

[SkyHog]

Which part is debated? The needed presence of a cfi for the night xc?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Yeah, he may have meant that and I missed it. Probably because it wouldn't help me, since I wouldn't be able to rent the 310 anyway, since I don't have the requisite 500 hours. So, while it may be generally true, it unfortunately doesn't fit my particular situation.

What are the other requirements for renting the 310? How much is it per hour? Do you know what the useful load is?

I was thinking of going to KMIC to do mine, as their Seneca used to be dirt cheap and only required 250TT, got an AMEL rating there, and 10 solo in their bird before you could rent it and take pax. Unfortunately, they jacked the price up to where it's not as big of a difference, and I don't know any of the CFI's there.

Wisconsin Aviation's rental requirement for the Seneca is either 750 total time or 100 multi time. That's just a wee bit expensive. But, I ought to hit 500 TT in the next year or so. Hmmm...

[edit: That's actually not quite true, since the hours you flew "supervised solo" count as PIC for the Comm-MEL. I think you're right that they don't count anywhere else, though!]

How do you figure? You can't log it as PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i) because you're not rated in category and class. You can't log it as PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(ii) as you're not the sole occupant of the aircraft. You can't log it under 61.51(e)(4)(i) because it's not an airship. (Note: AirSHIP, not airCRAFT.)

 

[poadeleted20]

Kent's right -- the "supervised solo" time flown under 14 CFR 61.129(b)(4) do not meet any of the criteria for logging time in the PIC column -- you're not rated, you're not the PIC, you're not the sole occupant, you're not an ATP in command, and you're not an instructor giving instruction. It counts only as training received, pilot time, and flight time.

 

[gprellwitz]

What are the other requirements for renting the 310? How much is it per hour? Do you know what the useful load is?

The 310R is $280/hour Hobbes, wet for dues-paying members. You can get more info and a contact number from www.aandmaviation.com. IIRC, the useful load was about 1825 pounds for one of the 310's I've flown. I don't remember if it's the one on the line currently, but it should be in that ballpark.

How do you figure? You can't log it as PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i) because you're not rated in category and class. You can't log it as PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(ii) as you're not the sole occupant of the aircraft. You can't log it under 61.51(e)(4)(i) because it's not an airship. (Note: AirSHIP, not airCRAFT.)

See http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.6.1.5

(b) For an airplane multiengine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.
(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—
(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and
(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least—
(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5 hours must be in a multiengine airplane;
(ii) 10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch propellers, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a multiengine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a multiengine seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a multiengine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;
(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a multiengine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(v) 3 hours in a multiengine airplane in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.
(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least—
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and
(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight with a traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Per 61.129(b)(4), the time spent performing the duties of PIC with an instructor may be credited towards the PIC requirements of the multi-engine commercial in 61.129(b)(2). Note that as I indicated, this appears to be only for this specific purpose; it's not generally considered PIC time.

 

[DeeG]

I have logged a few night time hours. All the nights I have flown it has been absolutely beautiful out. My question is...Flying at night is it harder to see clouds and weather? I am thinking yes. If so what do you guys do?

Yup. Was at a hangar party one afternoon and left after it got dark out. I knew there was an overcast layer, but thought the base was higher than it was. Ooopps..... Just check the weather a bit more often and pay closer attention to sky conditions, temp/dew point, temps aloft, etc.