Night Flight

[Trixie]

Ok, so I went on a night flight not too long ago. I did my 3 full stop taxi backs so I could be night current. On every landing, and I am not sure where I picked this up from, I noticed that I would use both hands to flair.

Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[ScottM]

Nope.

Did you do your three takeoffs too as those are required too

Don't ask me how to log take offs though.

As for your hand try keeping it on the throttle all the way to the full stop. You should have it there just in case you have to do the go around anyways.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Ok, so I went on a night flight not too long ago. I did my 3 full stop taxi backs so I could be night current. On every landing, and I am not sure where I picked this up from, I noticed that I would use both hands to flair.

Does this happen to anyone else?

... so if you use both hands, you flare with flair?

 

[gibbons]

Trixie,

What type of airplane?

 

[Trixie]

Nope.

Did you do your three takeoffs too as those are required too

Don't ask me how to log take offs though.

As for your hand try keeping it on the throttle all the way to the full stop. You should have it there just in case you have to do the go around anyways.

Yes I did have three takeoffs too.

I know I should have it there for a full stop landing. Why I take if off the yoke is beyond me.

 

[Trixie]

... so if you use both hands, you flare with flair?

Ok...so I do not know how to spell.

 

[Trixie]

Trixie,

What type of airplane?

I fly a 172.

 

[Earthroamer]

Gnaw, dont worry about it. Your mind was just telling your hands that it was so beautiful out that you dont need to come back to the ground.

 

[Bill]

Ok, so I went on a night flight not too long ago. I did my 3 full stop taxi backs so I could be night current.

Night currency tip:

If you have sufficiently long runway, do stop and goes, you'll get your currency with a little less hobbs out of the wallet.

 

[tonycondon]

trixie, how long has it been since you flew at night?

Ive found that many of my students, day or night, will revert to two hands on the yoke when they are anxious during the landing, for whatever reason. of course this usually leads to over controlling and then more anxiety.

 

[Dr. Bill]

I'm with Tony.

Two hands raising implies anxiety. In studying body language, this is commonly noted movement.

My favorite (extreme) example is when you watch a baby. As they get scared, their elbows raise up. (Like reaching form Mom?) Whenever I see this, I imagine a scared little chimp, running through a grassy meadow, with hands held high, flapping uncontrollably. I know it's goofy, but it's funny as all get out...

Good luck keeping one hand on the throttle, spring loaded!

 

[Trixie]

trixie, how long has it been since you flew at night?

It was right at 90 days, tonycondon.

 

[poadeleted20]

It was right at 90 days, tonycondon.

That's a long time between night flights unless you have a whole pile of night experience. This is another of those cases where the FAA requirement is the bare minimum, and most folks need their own, more stringent, personal mins to maintain a safe level of proficiency and comfort.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm with Tony.

Two hands raising implies anxiety. In studying body language, this is commonly noted movement.

Gee. I know a DPE with about 20 gazillion hours who lands with two hands. He never struck me as particularly nervous.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Did you do your three takeoffs too as those are required too.

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—

Are three takeoffs to a full stop "aborted takeoffs"?

Use of commas would be helpful here. I think they meant "has made at least three takeoffs, and three landings to a full stop, during the period beginning"

 

[SCCutler]

Night currency tip:

If you have sufficiently long runway, do stop and goes, you'll get your currency with a little less hobbs out of the wallet.

Long enough runway, you can do it without ever turning the airplane!

 

[tlglenn]

Reverting to driving habits?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Long enough runway, you can do it without ever turning the airplane!

True; it doesn't say anything about takeoff, go around the pattern, then a landing to a full stop. But, if somebody is going to bend the rules enough to be 'night current' by popping into ground effect, pulling the power, and landing to a full stop straight ahead, and counting that as a takeoff for night currency purposes, I don't think I'll be flying at night, or IMC, with them.

 

[jesse]

Most female pilots I have flown with land with two hands in 172s. I suspect most females are quite capable of one hand if properly trimmed.

I did my entire private two hand as that is what the instructor did. The DPE ripped my head off on my checkride for doing it. He also threw some "are you a girl?", "are you a wimp?" comments out that made me go one hand awful fast.

In the end, I prefer and always do one hand. It's hard enough for me to get one hand to do what I want. I don't want to try and make two do it. It also makes for faster go arounds.

I suspect, as tony mentioned, it was due to a lack of night currency.

 

[etsisk]

I did my entire private two hand as that is what the instructor did. The DPE ripped my head off on my checkride for doing it. He also threw some "are you a girl?", "are you a wimp?" comments out that made me go one hand awful fast.

Technique questions aside, that sort of attitude and behavior from a DPE is completely out of place and inappropriate. Not to mention ignorant. I too would have just switched to one hand (if I had been using both), that being the only sensible response from someone who is dependent on the DPE on a checkride, but that kind of juvenile macho crp coming from the DPE is just bull s. and shouldn't EVEN be happening, in my not so humble imnsho.

 

[SCCutler]

My instructor would reach out and slap my hand if I tried to move it from the throttle to the yoke on final. One time, he just reached out and pulled power (slowly), until I thought something was broken.

Message received!

 

[skyflyer8]

Most female pilots I have flown with land with two hands in 172s. I suspect most females are quite capable of one hand if properly trimmed.

Interesting. A 172 doesn't exactly need He-Man flare strength; I certainly don't use two hands on a C172 yoke (ever!) and neither do my female students. I teach all my students to stay out of this habit in the first place, but occasionally a student (male or female) will grab the yoke with two hands, which translates to "I'm nervous" -- usually leading to being jerky on the controls and overcontrolling.

 

[skyflyer8]

My instructor would reach out and slap my hand if I tried to move it from the throttle to the yoke on final. One time, he just reached out and pulled power (slowly), until I thought something was broken.

Message received!

My first instructor ingrained in me that during an approach, your hand should be on the throttle unless you're "scratching your leg, picking your nose, or touching your boyfriend." He had a little bit stronger version for the guys. I always laughed at his funny sayings but he got the point across.

Spike I'll have to remember to use that slow power reduction trick.

 

[Trixie]

During the day I don't land 2 handed. It's just this past night flight. This past flight I wasn't jerky on the controlls either. I just used 2 hands to flare thats all.

 

[Trixie]

I'm with Tony.

Two hands raising implies anxiety. In studying body language, this is commonly noted movement.

My favorite (extreme) example is when you watch a baby. As they get scared, their elbows raise up. (Like reaching form Mom?) Whenever I see this, I imagine a scared little chimp, running through a grassy meadow, with hands held high, flapping uncontrollably. I know it's goofy, but it's funny as all get out...

Good luck keeping one hand on the throttle, spring loaded!

Dr. Bill, I was no where near the chimp stage. As for the baby raising thier arms up, I see where you are coming from.

 

[jesse]

Interesting. A 172 doesn't exactly need He-Man flare strength; I certainly don't use two hands on a C172 yoke (ever!) and neither do my female students. I teach all my students to stay out of this habit in the first place, but occasionally a student (male or female) will grab the yoke with two hands, which translates to "I'm nervous" -- usually leading to being jerky on the controls and overcontrolling.

Yeah. Like I mentioned, I don't really think it's an issue of not having the strength. I think it has more to do with inproper trimming? Or nature? hell I don't know. Just something I've observed.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Did you have the trim set properly? I NEED two hands to round out the P-Baron if the trim isn't set right.

Best,

Dave

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Really? You need 2 hands to land the P Baron if not trimmed Dave?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

It takes very strong back pressure to round out the P-Baron if it's trimmed for cruise. Between 9 and 12 degrees nose up on short final makes it much more manageable. Not saying it can't be done with one hand, but it's difficult and one can't be as precise.

As a matter of fact, when first flying it, I asked a flight instructor why I was purposing on final and kinna fighting the plane. He asked about trim. It's funny because adding approach flaps requires some nose down from cruise. On short final, when full flaps are added and power reduced, the up trim can be added.

Best,

Dave

 

[bbchien]

I transitioned a 5'0 115 pound lady pilot from C172 to Centurion. She HAS to use both hands on the yoke. She'll move her right hand off of it for a moment to manually operate the trim- and tried to master the electric trim with her left hand only- but she was right dominant, and the hand was just very, very small.

But, she flies well.

Baron 58-s are VERY trim heavy. I need both on the yoke or a very shrewd application of trim to make it work. And with only two up, i've been known to add just a schosh of power in the flare (long strips only!).

 

[poadeleted20]

Interesting. A 172 doesn't exactly need He-Man flare strength;

It does if it isn't trimmed right, and therein lies the underlying issue -- inadequate training in the use of trim. If folks are taught to trim so the nose stays where it was when hands are removed at proper final approach speed (1.3 Vs0 at landing weight), one hand is all anyone should need to flare an undamaged C-172 loaded within book W&B limits.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Spike I'll have to remember to use that slow power reduction trick.

Kate,

When you're left downwind and the student looks over their shoulder to establish the 45 turn to base, that's a great time (they won't see you!).

 

[KennyFlys]

Kate,

When you're left downwind and the student looks over their shoulder to establish the 45 turn to base, that's a great time (they won't see you!).

I've had simulated power loss pulled me more than a few times at that point. It makes for a good time to try it when attention is divided and interferes with speed of reaction.

 

[Terry]

I was taught to use "one hand" to fly. Anytime I took my hand off the throttle on take off or landing the instructor would move the throttle for me.

I still use one hand.

Terry

 

[tonycondon]

trimming out the P Baron is a lot easier when Dave is there to just do it for you.

 

[gprellwitz]

trimming out the P Baron is a lot easier when Dave is there to just do it for you.

Yes, it is!

 

[Laurie]

Most female pilots I have flown with land with two hands in 172s. I suspect most females are quite capable of one hand if properly trimmed.

I did my entire private two hand as that is what the instructor did. The DPE ripped my head off on my checkride for doing it. He also threw some "are you a girl?", "are you a wimp?" comments out that made me go one hand awful fast.

In the end, I prefer and always do one hand. It's hard enough for me to get one hand to do what I want. I don't want to try and make two do it. It also makes for faster go arounds.

I suspect, as tony mentioned, it was due to a lack of night currency.

This isn't a female thing. Granted, I've only had a handful of female airplane students in my career as a CFI, but the male students had the same issue - except for those that hadn't driven a car yet. I think this is linked more to primacy and interference than female-ness.

 

[skyflyer8]

I think this is linked more to primacy and interference than female-ness.

Bingo. And I forgot to add something about how lots of my new students see two handgrips and assume you are supposed to use two hands.

 

[KennyFlys]

Bingo. And I forgot to add something about how lots of my new students see two handgrips and assume you are supposed to use two hands.

I wonder what they would do in some of the trainers with a stick instead of a yoke or even a side-stick?