Night Currency vs. Night Landings

[Greebo]

To be current for night landings with passengers, a pilot must have done at least 3 full stop landings between the times of one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise within the last 90 days.

I'm currently not night current.

Sunset on friday will be at 7:51 PM.

If I take my wife up flying on Friday, do we have to land before 7:51 PM? or before 8:51PM?

In other words - what constitutes a night landing when there are pax onboard?

(I think I should just go to the airport tonight...)

 

[maximus]

Before 8:51 However if you have not flown at night in some time I recommened landing before it gets to DARK.

To be current for night landings with passengers, a pilot must have done at least 3 full stop landings between the times of one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise within the last 90 days.

I'm currently not night current.

Sunset on friday will be at 7:51 PM.

If I take my wife up flying on Friday, do we have to land before 7:51 PM? or before 8:51PM?

In other words - what constitutes a night landing when there are pax onboard?

(I think I should just go to the airport tonight...)

 

[wsuffa]

To be current for night landings with passengers, a pilot must have done at least 3 full stop landings between the times of one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise within the last 90 days.

I'm currently not night current.

Sunset on friday will be at 7:51 PM.

If I take my wife up flying on Friday, do we have to land before 7:51 PM? or before 8:51PM?

In other words - what constitutes a night landing when there are pax onboard?

(I think I should just go to the airport tonight...)

Full Stop TAKEOFFS and Landings. Emphasis and word added. That catches a lot of people.

Sounds like you should go to the airport tonight.

 

[Skip Miller]

To be current for night landings with passengers, a pilot must have done at least 3 full stop landings between the times of one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise within the last 90 days.

Don't forget the FAR requires three takeoffs, and landings for currency. Taking off just prior to sunset + 1 hour and blasting around the pattern 3 times doesn't fulfill the requirement!


-Skip

 

[Greebo]

Ok, found it:

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—

So - as long as we're back down before 8:51, we're good - and there will be no problem there. I just wanted to be sure that if we were back a bit after 8 we'd be ok.

I've done some twilight landings recently - I am not worried about that.

 

[MSmith]

FAR 61.57:

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and-
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).

So, up until 8:51pm is fine. Doesn't have anything to do with civil twilight.

Now, logging night - that's different.

 

[Greebo]

<b>takeoffs,</b>

Use Square Brackets here -- [ and ] instead of < and >.

Sundown, or 7:51. Whichever comes first.

Sorry - fraid not - found the right reg.

 

[MSmith]

Wow, a bunch of people all looked up the same stuff at the same time.

I wonder whether the FAA FAR site gets a spike when somebody posts a logging question here?

 

[Greebo]

Dunno - I look it up over at AOPA m'self.

 

[Skip Miller]

Use Square Brackets here -- [ and ] instead of < and >.

Yes, I found that by trial and error.

Sorry - fraid not - found the right reg.

That is what these forums are for... there is so much to forget. I'm good at that! I already saw your reg posting and edited my original.

-Skip

 

[fgcason]

So - as long as we're back down before 8:51, we're good - and there will be no problem there. I just wanted to be sure that if we were back a bit after 8 we'd be ok.

I've done some twilight landings recently - I am not worried about that.

If you end up cutting it too close, as long as it's not a safety issue and more of a logbook entry issue, you could do as we did once:

Are you night current? Nope, are you? Nope. Not going to get there in time either are we? Nope. {silence} Maybe we should land somewhere and one of us get out and critique the other's night landing skills from the ground then continue home. Good plan.

Practical solution...

 

[bharris]

1.1 General Definitions
...
Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time.

Thus, the regulation quoted for obtaining night currency does not define when NIGHT Flight occurs.

In Greebo's situation he would have to land prior to the "end of evening civil twilight" in order to avoid violating the prohibition against carrying passengers unless current for night operations.

Bernie
N7895W

 

[Greebo]

Well it looks like it may end up being a moot point tonight anyway:
KBWI 221135Z 221212 VRB04KT 5SM -RA BR SCT015 BKN040 FM1400 12011KT P6SM BKN040 FM1900 12013KT 5SM -RA BR BKN020 FM0200 12007KT 4SM -RA BR OVC010 FM0900 17011KT 5SM -RA VCTS BKN008CB

KSBY 221120Z 221212 VRB03KT 5SM -RA SCT020 OVC040 FM1500 09005KT 4SM -RA BR SCT007 OVC020 FM1900 11005KT P6SM OVC025 FM0000 15005KT 5SM -SHRA SCT007 BKN025 FM0700 18010KT 5SM -SHRA SCT005 BKN020

Yucky.

 

[poadeleted20]

KBWI 221135Z 221212 VRB04KT 5SM -RA BR SCT015 BKN040 FM1400 12011KT P6SM BKN040 FM1900 12013KT 5SM -RA BR BKN020 FM0200 12007KT 4SM -RA BR OVC010 FM0900 17011KT 5SM -RA VCTS BKN008CB

KSBY 221120Z 221212 VRB03KT 5SM -RA SCT020 OVC040 FM1500 09005KT 4SM -RA BR SCT007 OVC020 FM1900 11005KT P6SM OVC025 FM0000 15005KT 5SM -SHRA SCT007 BKN025 FM0700 18010KT 5SM -SHRA SCT005 BKN020

Looks like a great night for instrument training -- not much wind, no-risk ceilings (ILS at both ends), and great vis underneath. Nothing like a little night actual instrument time to build some character.

 

[Greebo]

I thought that myself - but I already promised the wife a date tonight and back seat in the clouds w/ me and my instructor up front would NOT pass for romance with her.

 

[spiderweb]

Yep--I had a great instrument lesson!

 

[gismo]

In Greebo's situation he would have to land prior to the "end of evening civil twilight" in order to avoid violating the prohibition against carrying passengers unless current for night operations.

Actually, Chuck's got it right. AFaIK the only thing affected by the FAA's definition of night (bounded by the end of civil twilight in the evening) is logging of night flight time.

The reg for currency doesn't use the word night, it speaks of an hour after sunset for both the period in which currency is required and can be obtained.

 

[bharris]

Actually, Chuck's got it right. AFaIK the only thing affected by the FAA's definition of night (bounded by the end of civil twilight in the evening) is logging of night flight time.

The reg for currency doesn't use the word night, it speaks of an hour after sunset for both the period in which currency is required and can be obtained.

Well I learned something... Sorry, Chuck, you had it correct all along.

Benie
N7895W

 

[TLOVOI]

Do you have to be PIC too? In the past 90 days I have done 3 (well actually 10) takeoffs and landings to a full stop. I logged these with my instructor during my private pilot training. I was the sole manipulator of the controls but I was not PIC as I was still a student. The regs just say sole manipulator so I should be good, right?

The more I think about it I guess that would have to be true because the "sole manipulator" wording is the same for day currency. A student pilot could never solo if they had to have done 3 takeoffs and landings in the last 90 days as PIC. (As you can't log PIC time as a student unless you are solo, right??)

 

[Bob Noel]

Day currency and night currency are for carrying passengers. So I don't understand your statement "A student pilot could never solo ..."

 

[gismo]

Holy thread resurection! Is there a thread icon for that?

First, the requirement for currency landings (including night) is indeed that the pilot only needs to be the sole manipulator. He doesn't need to be solo ore even qualified to act as PIC. Second there is a peculiar circumstance where student pilots may benefit from achieving night currency and that's during the 90 days preceding their checkride. In order to legally carry pax at night after the checkride a pilot could have met the requirements during pre-checkride night landing practice. But there's no reason why a student pilot would need to have made 3 landings in the past 90 days (day or night) to fly solo nor does the ability or inablilty to act as PIC have any impact on the validity of currency landings.

 

[SkyHog]

Damn thread gravedigging. I was excited to learn that Chuck was doing some good flying and sharing stories.

Been a while since I read a good Greebo flight story.

 

[ScottM]

Damn thread gravedigging. I was excited to learn that Chuck was doing some good flying and sharing stories.

Been a while since I read a good Greebo flight story.

TLOVOI did the right thing. He used the search function to research his issue and found a thread that mostly answered his question. Then he asked what was appropriate instead of creating a duplicate thread.

 

[gprellwitz]

TLOVOI did the right thing. He used search function to research his issue and found a thread that mostly answered his question. Then he asked what was appropriate instead of creating a duplicate thread.

Yeah, you can't win for losing. Either you use the search and resurrect a dead thread, or you don't use the search and get jumped on for asking a question that's already been asked numerous times, even if those threads didn't address the nuance you're interested in!

 

[ScottM]

Yeah, you can't win for losing. Either you use the search and resurrect a dead thread, or you don't use the search and get jumped on for asking a question that's already been asked numerous times, even if those threads didn't address the nuance you're interested in!

Yep.

BTW Tlovoi, welcome to PoA!

 

[timwinters]

TLOVOI did the right thing. He used search function to research his issue and found a thread that mostly answered his question. Then he asked what was appropriate instead of creating a duplicate thread.

+1

I thought the exact same thing this morning.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Welcome to POA, TLOVOI

 

[ScottM]

Well I am night current again. Did 4 take offs and landings tonight. Perfect night for it too!! I flew up with my SO to Watertown for dinner, landing before sunset. We had a nice meal. I opted for the fish fry. I had the lake perch, yummy. They served homemade potato salad and coleslaw too, She had the filet. Lots of food!!

We walked back to the FBO and I while she waited I went and did my 3 take off/landings. Then she got on board and we flew home. It was dead calm, not a lick of wind, almost a full moon and lots of stars! Great flight!!

I did see something I had not run into before. On my first circuit as I was about 300 AGL I saw two dark objects out my window. It was two geese flying at night. I did not think geese were certified for night ops, they had no lights on and were pretty close. It would have ruined my day err night had I hit them.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well I am night current again. Did 4 take offs and landings tonight. Perfect night for it too!! I flew up with my SO to Watertown for dinner, landing before sunset. We had a nice meal. I opted for the fish fry. I had the lake perch, yummy. They served homemade potato salad and coleslaw too, She had the filet. Lots of food!!

What restaurant did you go to?

I did see something I had not run into before. On my first circuit as I was about 300 AGL I saw two dark objects out my window. It was two geese flying at night. I did not think geese were certified for night ops, they had no lights on and were pretty close. It would have ruined my day err night had I hit them.

Saw a TON of geese today while out walking off turkey at the local golf course. They fertilized the course well.

 

[DutchessFlier]

Maybe that wasn't lake perch you were eating...

 

[ScottM]

What restaurant did you go to?

Steakfire.

We have to do a PoA gathering there sometime. Really good!!!!!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Steakfire.

We have to do a PoA gathering there sometime. Really good!!!!!

Huh. Didn't know they did a fish fry. I mean, it's STEAKfire, ya gotta get a STEAK and grill it! And yes, they're great.

I actually met up with Grant and Leslie and a bunch of other folks from their airport there once. They did a fly-out to RYV to go to Steakfire, think they had 5 planes there.

 

[EppyGA]

Well I am night current again. Did 4 take offs and landings tonight. Perfect night for it too!! I flew up with my SO to Watertown for dinner, landing before sunset. We had a nice meal. I opted for the fish fry. I had the lake perch, yummy. They served homemade potato salad and coleslaw too, She had the filet. Lots of food!!

We walked back to the FBO and I while she waited I went and did my 3 take off/landings. Then she got on board and we flew home. It was dead calm, not a lick of wind, almost a full moon and lots of stars! Great flight!!

I did see something I had not run into before. On my first circuit as I was about 300 AGL I saw two dark objects out my window. It was two geese flying at night. I did not think geese were certified for night ops, they had no lights on and were pretty close. It would have ruined my day err night had I hit them.

Sounded like a great night Scott.

 

[ScottM]

Sounded like a great night Scott.

It was and an even better one tonight.

Flew out this morning to KBMG to visit my nieces. One is a grad student at Indiana and the younger one and their mom was going to be there. A visit was in order. Got there about noon and hung out to the late afternoon and then headed home. Sunset was incredible. I have pictures and video I will post shortly. Smooth, clear skies. Chi-Center kept me on FF until 3 miles south of the JOT VOR then dumped me to Chicago App which = no FF.

 

[ScottM]

Here are the pictures of the sunset.

 

[ScottM]

And some video

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It was and an even better one tonight.

I agree! I flew up to Black River Falls and back. In 2.4 hours, I felt only two small bumps a couple seconds apart - Must have been the leftover wake from a jet passing over or something. Vis on the ground was only 6-8 miles but it was just some low haze/mist, vis in the air was at least 30nm. And on my first landing in the 182 since Labor Day weekend, I had an absolute greaser - I felt the tires just kiss the runway, and then could feel as I added weight to them. Probably my 2nd-best landing ever.

 

[Lunch]

I realize how old this thread is, but I came across it while Googling and it sparked my interest. Does this mean there is two seperate hours every day (just after evening civil twilight and just before morning civil twilight) that I should technically be logging "night" landings, even though they obviously wouldn't count towards my 3 in the previous 90 days?

 

[skidoo]

This sparked my interest too. After Lunch get his question answered, I have one too.

I earned my PPL in the early 1970's before there was a requirement for 3 hours night flight. I have no night restrictions on my certificate. In looking over my log books, I have 0.7 hours logged for night during a dual checkout. I don't recall that night flying back in 1975. So, to be legal, I can just go out and make 3 TO's and 3 landings at night and I would be good to go? I do realize that it would be wise to first go out with a CFI. But, wise and legal are different.

 

[jesse]

So, to be legal, I can just go out and make 3 TO's and 3 landings at night and I would be good to go? I do realize that it would be wise to first go out with a CFI. But, wise and legal are different.

Correct. You have a valid certificate and can excerise all the privileges of it. There is no reg stating any sort of endorsement so there is nothing you could possibly need.

You'd just need to to do the regular currency stuff and you're set. But as you note it'd be in your best interest to find someone to ride with.