Newish C206, or old but highly refurbished?

[Ted]

To me, depreciation is only relevant if you plan on reselling soon. What it's worth is a mute point if you intend on keeping it for the long term. I've owned and enjoyed my airplane for 16 years now. Surely, that has to be worth something. My opinion is (although you don't want to pee the money away): if your pockets are deep enough to buy a $400K+ single engine.....fly it, enjoy it, take the depreciation on taxes and move on. Probably not smart to buy an airplane as an investment. Heck, I have a hard enough time justifying my airplane to my spouse. :wink2:

It isn't a mute point, we're talking about it.

I do agree, however that it's a moot point if you're going to keep it a long time. You also make a good point about the tax deduction, which is something I tend to forget about since it doesn't help me enough to be worthwhile. Everyone's tax situation is different.

For me, the purchase cost and resale value are both more important than owning something that's new. Since I enjoy doing upgrades, I don't mind buying something that has room for improvement, especially if it involves the panel. If you're looking at owning something for a long time, this can be even nicer - it gives you the option of making it exactly the way you want it, not worrying as much about resale value on the upgrades you did, and then you also have the satisfaction of knowing you have a perfect plane for you.

 

[Henning]

I would rather compare a Baron with NA 550's burning 22.5 total at 185. Hard numbers to beat and you have the 600HP when you need it.

I can do those numbers with the 310 and have a much roomier cabin than the Baron.

 

[Ted]

I can do those numbers with the 310 and have a much roomier cabin than the Baron.

But you can't do it with a 2012 model year 310.

 

[Alexb2000]

I can do those numbers with the 310 and have a much roomier cabin than the Baron.

What motors do you have?

 

[Gubbins]

Thanks for the very interesting discussion. So should I be concerned about the AJ1A Lycoming in my T206H? I'm not very aggressive in leaning, I tend to run a little cooler than what has been shown.

 

[Ted]

Thanks for the very interesting discussion. So should I be concerned about the AJ1A Lycoming in my T206H? I'm not very aggressive in leaning, I tend to run a little cooler than what has been shown.

No, you shouldn't be concerned about it any more than you should any other high-powered turbocharged piston engine. If you take good care of it and operate it conservatively, it should reward you. Just like any other engine.

If you're interested in learning more in-depth, I offer an engine management course, including flying in your plane to help you establish good power settings to use for longevity.

 

[Gubbins]

On the topic of "resell", I have no intention of selling my 206. It is perfect for me, a perfect platform for photography (high wing, can open the window and even take off the rear doors if necessary), enjoying the scenery and being able to land at pretty short airfields. When I want to get somewhere quickly or cheaply, I go commercial. But.... You never know what life will deal you, so when I was shopping for a plane I DID look at the resale/depreciation and consider that if I needed to get out of it. The late model G1000 206's with GFC700 are holding their values pretty impressively which is why I went for it. Now if I had the skills and time that some on this thread have to upgrade a plane myself, I would certainly consider that. But to buy a plane that somebody else has upgraded for a first time plane buyer is a little scary.

 

[Alexb2000]

On the topic of "resell", I have no intention of selling my 206. It is perfect for me, a perfect platform for photography (high wing, can open the window and even take off the rear doors if necessary), enjoying the scenery and being able to land at pretty short airfields. When I want to get somewhere quickly or cheaply, I go commercial. But.... You never know what life will deal you, so when I was shopping for a plane I DID look at the resale/depreciation and consider that if I needed to get out of it. The late model G1000 206's with GFC700 are holding their values pretty impressively which is why I went for it. Now if I had the skills and time that some on this thread have to upgrade a plane myself, I would certainly consider that. But to buy a plane that somebody else has upgraded for a first time plane buyer is a little scary.

How about posting up some of your cruise numbers just for comparison?

 

[spiderweb]

Just like anything the new ones will have more depreciation. However, with Cessna making only about 50 per year the used prices have been very high and stable. If they made more and didn't keep increasing the price $10-15K per year then they would certainly depreciate more. Look at other popular aircraft Caravans, TBM's, etc. They sell for what they cost new at 10+ years old.

Attached are the only picture set I have that comes close to your requested numbers. This was during a new engine break-in so it's not fully leaned, cowls are half-open, and ROP. Usually ROP I lean the T206H to 1600 TIT, and keep the CHT at 400. This is very conservative for the factory numbers and for those other than Ted, this is a Lycoming not a Continental (re: CHT's).

Generally, I'll stand by my earlier comment, on a broken in engine at 10K you should see 155 KTAS, 17.5 ROP, 1600TIT, and 400 CHT. I flew another one with gap seals and tips and it was definitely faster, maybe 160-165 at 10-12K with the same engine settings.

This is the NA C206, right? That's about what I would expect. Hey, a big load hauler with lots of room doing 155 true? Well, that's what people like about the Stationaire!

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks for the extra info and data points. Good discussion.

This is how I know you aren't the "Star Grinch." You know, the guy or gal who always gives my posts one star!

 

[Alexb2000]

This is the NA C206, right? That's about what I would expect. Hey, a big load hauler with lots of room doing 155 true? Well, that's what people like about the Stationaire!

Turbo 206, the T in T206H. The turbo, O2, hot prop, etc. cost about 100lb. with no increase in useful for the turbo, unlike other brands. The NA runs best about 8K, IMO and is a little slower. With tips you'll see ~1500 useful in cargo config, the NA will be about ~1600 in the same config. Numbers aside, I've flown a number of different aircraft heavy, the 206 can do gross with great ease.

 

[spiderweb]

Turbo 206, the T in T206H. The turbo, O2, hot prop, etc. cost about 100lb. with no increase in useful for the turbo, unlike other brands. The NA runs best about 8K, IMO and is a little slower. With tips you'll see ~1500 useful in cargo config, the NA will be about ~1600 in the same config. Numbers aside, I've flown a number of different aircraft heavy, the 206 can do gross with great ease.

This is why I started the poll.

And for me, turbos are not there so much for speed as for flexibility. For example, I am thinking about the TCUs that are going to become ugly, but for now, could be topped. I hate to bob and weave when I can overcome!

 

[Gubbins]

How about posting up some of your cruise numbers just for comparison?

I will next time i go and take some pictures. The POH says the best economy is to run at peak TIT and 75% power. Is this what you do?

 

[Alexb2000]

This is why I started the poll.

And for me, turbos are not there so much for speed as for flexibility. For example, I am thinking about the TCUs that are going to become ugly, but for now, could be topped. I hate to bob and weave when I can overcome!

Agreed. They will top a lot of badness, I don't have any pictures, but they will definitely go much higher.

 

[spiderweb]

Agreed. They will top a lot of badness, I don't have any pictures, but they will definitely go much higher.

Yes. And complete a lot more missions without too much fuss!

 

[Alexb2000]

I will next time i go and take some pictures. The POH says the best economy is to run at peak TIT and 75% power. Is this what you do?

No. I've never run one at 1675 TIT. My personal limit is 1600. Also, I believe you'll have problems keeping the CHT's anywhere reasonable at peak, without a lot of open cowl. The place to try running at peak IMO would be a very cold day, at 10-12K, flying into the wind.

If you look at my settings I'm just a tad over 75% power in MP, and about 100 ROP.

Also, I don't use the lean assist unless going LOP, I just dial it up.

 

[mbundy]

Ted-

I finally found some post break-in pictures that might give you better data. I believe this is with about 200 TT on the motor. This is about as good as it gets for a T206H without mods. IMO.

17.1 and 158, I'd like to hear your thoughts?

How about 14.5 and 145?

That's how I roll in my T206H

http://www.cirrusreports.com/flights/N5230D/407013

Just wanted to give an owners LOP point-of-view

 

[Alexb2000]

How about 14.5 and 145?

That's how I roll in my T206H

http://www.cirrusreports.com/flights/N5230D/407013

Just wanted to give an owners LOP point-of-view

Nice. What are your numbers at 155 LOP?

 

[Ted]

I will next time i go and take some pictures. The POH says the best economy is to run at peak TIT and 75% power. Is this what you do?

That is a positively awful operating point, and will not do much for engine longevity.