New Transponder

Bman.

Bman.

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bman.
The plane I training in ('79 Archer II) is currently in for it's annual. One of the items that has cropped up is the transponder is not always sending out the correct signage at all times. The original transponder is just beginning to fail.

The owner of the plane has come to me with opinions since the plane will likely change ownership to me in the coming future. The options are to repair or replace. I vote for replace. Then the question is - replace with what? We know the ADS-B out mandate is creeping up so it doesn't make sense to get a new transponder without ADS-B out - unless I am missing something.

Do we get a new transponder that also has ads-b in or the option to relay "in" information to another device at a later time? Or just run with ads-b out and pick up a Stratus II for -in data?

Now is the time to make these changes but without letting the price tag get out of hand, I see..

Garmin GTX 330 + GDL 88 option
Lynx 9000 series

Since I am sort of planning ahead for a plane that I will more than likely take over, what other options do you guys recommend? I don't foresee upgrading the avionics as a whole but the radios are the same age. (collins).

Yeah, you are right, just get the GTX 750. ha...
 
Do you already have the WAAS GPS source that is required for ADS-B out?

If you had ADS-B in, what would it display on?

Does the airplane ever (or will it ever) use Class A airspace?
 
Have you looked at the trig or KT74? I have the 74, and it was considerably cheaper than the Garmin options.
 
I didn't leave you with a lot of information to go by.

- There is no WAAS on board. The avionics package is pretty much straight from the 1979 factory. Collins radios / nav and OBS gauges. There is very little by way of avionics upgrades. The only thing that has been added was a KLN-35A that has an outdated database.


Although IFR equiped - you aren't going with modern day avionics.


I don't know about the ADS-B In display. I thought there were some head units that would link via bluetooth to display on tablets etc. No true?


Class A - Never has, never will (or at least I can't imagine a scenario where this would occur). Unless jet assist was added to this plane, I don't think it could reach that altitude.




As you can see - I am really out of the know when it comes to knowing the options. What I am trying to avoid is to spend too much on a plane that in itself may not be worth fully updating. The Archer has 2900 airframe hours, no damage and is in nice shape all things being equal. Could be be spruced up - without a doubt. How much to invest for the age of the plane is debateable.


Thanks-
Benjamin
 
You'll need a WAAS GPS source for ADS-B "out" no matter what. The question is how to achieve that. FreeFlight has units with built-in WAAS but those won't replace your failing xpdr.

You can go with a Garmin GTX 330ES that will include 1090 ES ADS-B out (we'll call this "1090ES") but it does not include a WAAS GPS source. you'd have to add that source. I imagine there are solutions to that problem shy of installing a Garmin navigator. 1090 ES is required for Class A flight post-2020 so you don't require 1090ES.

Also 1090ES transponders do not receive all the ADS-B "in" goodies like FIS-B (weather uplink) and TIS-B (customized traffic uplink). Those goodies can still be received via a tablet combined with an ADS-B "in" receiver (portable or panel mounted), however.

The other "out" option is "978UAT". 978 UAT is preferable for you but it's not included in any transponders I know of (someone help me here).

The GTX-330 plus GLD-88 (which can be bought with WAAS GPS source included) would be awesome but you'd need to add a FlightStream box in order to toss the ADS-B "in" goodies over to your iPad - or get a Stratus. That install isn't cheap at all. I can easily see that topping $8k but you would get some great stuff displayed on your Garmin navigator once it gets installed (very slick traffic alerting).

You could also install the GTX-330ES and buy a Stratus (or similar) portable receiver. Now you've replaced your transponder with ADS-B "out" and you are still receiving the ADS-B "in" stuff on your Stratus/FF combo. This would be a lot cheaper. Later, when you get a Garmin navigator you can then install the GDL-88.

The most cost effective path is not necessarily the cheapest path.
 
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If you have GPSW,you could consider a Garmin 330 es ,which is ADSB compliant.
 
to answer your original question, I would go ahead and get an ADSB transponder unless repairing your existing unit is cheap. My KT76A had an issue developing, and I was quoted around $8-900 to repair. Compared to a new KT74 at $2500, it was a no brainer for me.

If your current transponder is kept via repair or whatever, they sell all in one units that act as your WAAS and ADSB-out source. That would be much cheaper than new transponder and new GPS.

Just depends on which direction you want to go with the plane. Are you planning to keep the plane a long time? If so, maybe investing in a WAAS GPS is an option depending on how much $$ you want to spend. Keeping the plane a year or two? Keep the panel basic and unload it when you're ready to change.

not to be nitpicky, but the transponder is an "out" source, and the stratus is an "in" source IIRC.
 
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I recently added a L3 Lynx transponder and so far I am very happy with it. Solves the display issue of weather and traffic.

Jim
 
Thanks for the information guys. I am trying to get it sorted all out. I will take a list of options to the owner of the plane and start this conversation with "What are you going to do with the plane". We haven't discussed the ownership transfer yet as I am still getting my training wrapped up so it's not a serious topic until that gets done. I am close though so we might as well start talking about it. Just so I have my mind around this:

-We need a transponder (or repair the old unit)
-We need a GPS WAAS source to get ADS-B out
-We need a unit to send out the ADB-B out information
-We can get an inline unit or all inclusive unit that includes "in" information.

I can get all in one units that have both WAAS GPS and transponder.

I see it going like this. Get a transponder that has GPS WAAS and ADS-B out. The in function would be satisfied via stratus and not part of the inplane avionics. I just don't see upgrading up to a 530 or 750 type unit to use say GLD-88. So I guess I need to split apart the logic. 1) Get transponder 2) Get ADS-B compliant ad A) Use external source for ADS-B-IN (Stratus) and link to FF.

Big swaths of money in this decision relative to the overall cost / value of plane.
Benjamin


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You can get a single box with ADSB in and out that will fit in your existing transponder hole. You will need a GPS/WAAS antennae. You can use your existing transponder antennae (I think). That is what I would go for. Single box solution, there is a nice one that has a display. Check out:
http://l-3lynx.com/models.html

There is also a less expensive solution with no display, and no in, just out compliant that can use your repaired transponder.

Read this thread:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87632
 
I would sit down, review all of the ADS-B requirements, look over combinations of equipment that is available and decide on a possible package. Then discuss it all with your favorite avionics shop if you have one. Then based upon this, I would proceed to have the transponder replaced with the one from your selected ADS-B package. That is your immediate need, correct? You can put off having the rest of the package installed for a few years if money is a factor right now. In a few years, your transponder should still be good and there will most likely be both better and cheaper compatible components to complete your package. I would not rush into a full blown system upgrade at this time. Just take care of your immediate need with a plan in place for the future.
 
Transponder is the immediate need. If the plane is going in to the shop to have transponder repaired / replaced - now is the time to get compliant.

The LYNX UAT systems still need a GPS source correct? Someone who would have say a 430/530 waas unit would start looking at these UAT boxes. If you don't have a WAAS device you have to start looking at the full blown L3 (or similar) that have both the GPS source? I can't tell is the NGT-9x actually have the GPS source.

Benjamin
 
Bman. said:
Transponder is the immediate need. If the plane is going in to the shop to have transponder repaired / replaced - now is the time to get compliant.

The LYNX UAT systems still need a GPS source correct? Someone who would have say a 430/530 waas unit would start looking at these UAT boxes. If you don't have a WAAS device you have to start looking at the full blown L3 (or similar) that have both the GPS source? I can't tell is the NGT-9x actually have the GPS source.

Benjamin
Click to expand...


Benjamin, Good to see you on POA!!

I am the owners brother in law (with the Bonanza) I think you and I met at the airport on our stop while bringing the plane home.

Did you guys figure out what to do about the avionics?
I keep trying to push a simple Garmin 430W with ADSB transponder to him but he seems of old school and likes IFR in VFR conditions.

I think we will be there in the next week or so, maybe I can work on him for an upgrade. :dunno:

Also how is the training going?
 
The AOPA website actually has a section on ADS-B transponders that is quite helpful, don't know if you have to be a member to use it. Lots of us are going through this right now. I would say by all means do it, better to do it now than spending more in four years. The FAA will not blink at the deadline unless the airlines complain, and I doubt they will. The FAA doesn't give a rat's assay about any of us.

Do get one that receives an ADS-B in signal as well as the ADS-B out. There are a number that will transmit the data in either wifi or bluetooth. You can then receive it on a tablet or even your smartphone using the appropriate software. I'm using a Stratus receiver (a dedicated ADS-B in device) with an iPad and Foreflight software, I really like what I get. There are quite a few software applications for multiple devices, and I imagine the transponders will transmit to a number as well.
 
Hey! Oh great... secrets out of the bag now! From here on out, every landing is a greaser and everything is in tip top shape - ha.

A few bills later, Geoff got the transponder repaired and there is nothing new in the plane for avionics. I think the logic is wait until it's the transponder + ADS-B out is not his problem. It's hard to throw money at something you aren't using all too often. Someone did convince him to get a new hangar space... but something has to be done about his headset. He can borrow my A20's anytime..

Training is progressing (slowly). I am sitting a few hours shy of checkride:30. Schedule conflicts and holidays have put serious training on the slower track. I hope to get it knocked out in the next few months so I can get some real training time in and the start chipping away on instrument training. One step at a time.

How is that V35 treating you?

Benjamin
 
Whatever you do, you will need a GPS-WAAS antenna also.

There are numerous options. What is the budget?
 
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