New Tailwheel Pilot

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 11, 2007
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Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
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Display name:
Dan Mc
Got to fly my airplane a couple of hours today (We flew 1.5, landed, took a short break, then flew another 1/2 hour).

One good tip that John provided that really improved my control was to maintain pressure on the rudder pedals, essentially taking up the bit of slack. I could feel the rudder much better and make fine adjustments before the airplane pointed one way or the other. Before I had my heels on the floor resting on the pedals the way I normally fly, but the .05 second delay between control input and effectiveness made the difference.

Takeoffs were solid tracking straight and true. Winds were 3-5 kts 20-30 degrees from the left. The Aeronca Chief has an Oleo landing gear that gives you the sensation of flying as the oleos stretch -- even through wheels are still rolling -- it's a bit disconcerting the first few times as first one wing then the next lifts the oleos. The best route is to treat it as crosswind correction (aileron into the "wind") and correct the yaw excursions caused by the differential lift.

I landed in the grass parallel to the paved runway and this time had the sight picture correct (Last time I was a bit too nose high so the tail was contacting the ground first). With the proper sight picture the airplane gently touches down on all three points nearly simultaneously.

Speeds were predictable -- airplane wants to fly at 40 -- I held it on until 50 and it flew itself off the runway. Vy is 60, and by the time I was 500' AGL it was time to pull to 1500 RPM and pull carb heat (patterns are CLOSE when you're flying 60 MPH!)

At idle the approach angle was fairly steep at 60 MPH. With 1500 RPM I could maintain 60 MPH and a good descent rate all the way to the runway. When 10' or so above the surface I pulled power to idle and let it slowly descend as I held it off, held it off, held it off. About 100' passed under the mains before touchdown, and we were still flying in ground effect in the low 40s.

With the airplane so slow the ground roll on grass is minimal. It's quite comforting to know this airplane can be landed on a postage stamp.
We practiced power off, slips, some crosswind (the winds picked up a bit and were soon 60 degrees left). The wing low method comes naturally since there's so much rudder control.

Slips are fun -- with so much rudder it's easy to lose alot of altitude in a little space -- another way to get into tight places. I thought I was good at slipping a Bo or 172 or 205 -- this airplane will have a bit more to give when it's downright sideways!

We practiced pavement landings and as expected the handling was a bit more squirrely, but manageable. We tried wheel landings but the grass is pretty rough. We'll practice some more next weekend.

So now I have my endorsement and ticket to learn! It's been tough scheduling myself, the weather, and a tailwheel CFI. Now it's just me and the weather, as the airplane is always available!

I also topped it off with 3 gallons of ethanol-free BP mogas. Everything ran fine without a hiccup. Refueling was made easier by a siphon.

So, I'm a new tailwheel pilot! :D
 
Dear Dan,

You suck.

Love, Tim

Congrats!

:D

You, too can have Aeronca fun! Just start opening hangar doors at small airports!!

BTW -- now I can fly to various fly-ins! (Of course I could take the 205, but it's just not the same!) I'm sorry I missed the WV one a couple of weeks ago, but I will make the next one!
 
great!

old non flap airplanes generally have very powerful slips. its fun. i think my glider will yaw about 20 degrees with full rudder at approach speed. down we go.

that oleo strut thing really bugged me when i first flew an older citabria.
 
Congrats on the Tailwheel Endorsement!!
Bout how much money does it take to get a tailwheel signoff?
 
Hey Dan,

Will you give dual in it when you're a little more comfy? would a 210 lb/75" student fit?


I certainly will! We'll have to talk about MGW in person.

:yesnod:

I'm planning on flying it at least 100 hours before I give dual in it -- but the rate i fly, that will be early spring.
 
Dan Congrats! Looks like you will be having too much fun for one person......yeah man that's a good thing!!
 
At idle the approach angle was fairly steep at 60 MPH.

Slips are fun -- with so much rudder it's easy to lose alot of altitude in a little space -- another way to get into tight places. I thought I was good at slipping a Bo or 172 or 205 -- this airplane will have a bit more to give when it's downright sideways.

So now I have my endorsement and ticket to learn! It's been tough scheduling myself, the weather, and a tailwheel CFI. Now it's just me and the weather, as the airplane is always available!

So, I'm a new tailwheel pilot! :D

If you want to approach steeper, slow it some more by bringing the nose up. You should be able to approach at 55, and at 50 if you want to get down sooner.

A 172 barely slips at all.

Lots of fun. Shouldn't everyone get some taildragger time?

Dan
 
average seems to be 5-10 hrs of training time. id budget 1000-1500 bucks in a typical tailwheel rental.
 
Oh.... thats plane AND Training. lol. How much is just Training?

When I did mine,in late 2007, it was $55/hr wet for the Champ, and $45/hr for the instructor. Got the sign-off in just shy of 11 hours, which also put me just over the 10 hrs their insurer required to rent it to me for solo flight. So call it $1K. Did it over a period of about 2 weeks while working full-time M-F.

You can probably find cheaper instructors, although I feel mine was worth every penny, having been giving dual in that very airplane for about 40 years! But a cheaper plane you will probably not find. And good luck finding an old taildragger available for solo rental! I was lucky I just happened to be working in the area for a couple of months... Champs and Cubs and C120/140s are very hard to find for solo rental. I think that outfit (First Flight at Brown in San Diego) bumped up their prices a little since then, but it's still there and it's still a great deal. And getting the endorsement is more satisfying when you can get some solo time afterwards and polish things up a bit.

Another tip for the cost-conscious tailwheel add-on aspirant: do your next flight review as part of the tailwheel training. You'll spend a little instructor time on ground stuff, but just learning to fly the taildragger and maybe making a few short flights to other airports will cover you for the flight portion of the FR.
That worked out well for me, and it was a lot more fun than the usual FR! :D
 
BTW, Dan:
What you describe is really what makes tailwheel-lovers out of people... it's a little more adventurous, yet, especially with an old pussycat like a Chief (which seems very Champ-like), it is so soothing, in an odd sort of way.
Enjoy that old gal, keep those feet awake, and be careful taxiing in strong winds.
 
1k/1.5k is not to bad. Thanks for the help Guys.
When I get my Tailwheel Endorsment, I plan to rent a Local Stearman Bi-Plane for an hour or so (can't solo it though). $300
 
These endorsements and ratings sure can get expensive quick. Dan paying a bit over $13k for a tailwheel endorsement? Well, that beats my multi rating, which cost about 3x that much. :)
 
Well, if you subtract the cost of the airplane, the endorsement cost me about $200.

:smile:

Yeah, if you subtract the cost of the airplane the multi rating probably cost me about $2000, so not out of line. :)
 
average seems to be 5-10 hrs of training time. id budget 1000-1500 bucks in a typical tailwheel rental.

You'd be likely to pull it off in the 5-10hr range if you've managed to learn how to make full stall landings with zero sideways drift at touchdown and very little vertical speed first. If your typical "arrival" involves a perceptible impact and/or any sort of sideways lurch, it may take a lot more than 10 hours to unlearn your sloppy habits. Flying a taildragger in the air doesn't require much if any training beyond paying attention to coordination during turns and power changes (typically taildraggers exhibit a lot more adverse yaw, especially older designs). Taxiing requires a bit more attention and vigilance as does taking off due to the requirement that taildraggers CG is behind the main wheels. This makes the airplane behave like a car moving fast in reverse or a shopping cart rolling downhill, all of which want to swap ends if you get the least bit sideways. Landing is the part of the training most folks have trouble with. There you have to deal with limited forward visibility (none in some), unstabil pitch behavior at touchdown (that CG behind the wheels again), along with the aforementioned tendency to swap ends.
 
You'd be likely to pull it off in the 5-10hr range if you've managed to learn how to make full stall landings with zero sideways drift at touchdown and very little vertical speed first. If your typical "arrival" involves a perceptible impact and/or any sort of sideways lurch, it may take a lot more than 10 hours to unlearn your sloppy habits. Flying a taildragger in the air doesn't require much if any training beyond paying attention to coordination during turns and power changes (typically taildraggers exhibit a lot more adverse yaw, especially older designs). Taxiing requires a bit more attention and vigilance as does taking off due to the requirement that taildraggers CG is behind the main wheels. This makes the airplane behave like a car moving fast in reverse or a shopping cart rolling downhill, all of which want to swap ends if you get the least bit sideways. Landing is the part of the training most folks have trouble with. There you have to deal with limited forward visibility (none in some), unstabil pitch behavior at touchdown (that CG behind the wheels again), along with the aforementioned tendency to swap ends.

Exactly right. If you've been drilled to be straight and land with as little energy as possible, the transition won't take long.

If you've been depending on the gear to get you out of trouble, or add 10 knots "just to be safe," you'll take a bit longer.
 
Exactly right. If you've been drilled to be straight and land with as little energy as possible, the transition won't take long.

If you've been depending on the gear to get you out of trouble, or add 10 knots "just to be safe," you'll take a bit longer.

That's what wheel landings are for.:goofy:
 
Exactly right. If you've been drilled to be straight and land with as little energy as possible, the transition won't take long.

If you've been depending on the gear to get you out of trouble, or add 10 knots "just to be safe," you'll take a bit longer.


Has your instructor taught you spins in it yet? If it's anything like the Champ it spins beautifully. Get him to show you what happens in a skidding, descending turn (as in a sloppy base-to-final). Makes you much more careful about coordination after that!

Dan
 
Has your instructor taught you spins in it yet? If it's anything like the Champ it spins beautifully. Get him to show you what happens in a skidding, descending turn (as in a sloppy base-to-final). Makes you much more careful about coordination after that!

Dan


We didn't spin the Chief yet -- ceilings were rather low, and I didn't pack the lunch required to climb!

I plan to take it out an spin it on a nice day.

I did my CFI Spin training in a C172, and I asked my instructor to show me all the ways students would try to kill me. The cross-controlled, slow base-to-final was the most abrupt of all the spin entries.
 
That's what wheel landings are for.:goofy:


Well, to get at least half serious for a moment...

There are airplanes that like wheelies and airplanes that don't. Same for pilots.

Personally, I found the Cessna 120 to be the easiest airplane to land (among my limited sample) because I could pretty much just take a nap in the pattern. No matter how high and/or fast I was, all I had to do was kick it into a slip down to the threshold, set the mains on the numbers, and I always made the first turn off.:thumbsup:

When the 120 got sold my dad bought a Beech Sport. He went to deliver the 120 to someone at what is now 45G and I was supposed to go pick him up with the Beech. It took me three tries just to get that sumnabitch on the ground (forget about hitting the numbers, I was just trying to get it on the runway). :blush: I had just gotten too lazy / sloppy from doing wheelies in the 120.

I also liked coming in a bit hot when there was a stiff cross wind. With the mains on the ground and good solid Cleveland toe brakes to steer with, it was a piece of cake - and you weren't sitting there low and slow trying to stay lined up. Your Chief with yea olde mechanical heel brakes, however, would be a whole 'nuter animal.:yikes:
 
Well, to get at least half serious for a moment...

There are airplanes that like wheelies and airplanes that don't. Same for pilots.

Personally, I found the Cessna 120 to be the easiest airplane to land (among my limited sample) because I could pretty much just take a nap in the pattern. No matter how high and/or fast I was, all I had to do was kick it into a slip down to the threshold, set the mains on the numbers, and I always made the first turn off.:thumbsup:

When the 120 got sold my dad bought a Beech Sport. He went to deliver the 120 to someone at what is now 45G and I was supposed to go pick him up with the Beech. It took me three tries just to get that sumnabitch on the ground (forget about hitting the numbers, I was just trying to get it on the runway). :blush: I had just gotten too lazy / sloppy from doing wheelies in the 120.

I also liked coming in a bit hot when there was a stiff cross wind. With the mains on the ground and good solid Cleveland toe brakes to steer with, it was a piece of cake - and you weren't sitting there low and slow trying to stay lined up. Your Chief with yea olde mechanical heel brakes, however, would be a whole 'nuter animal.:yikes:

Ohhhh yeah...

The brakes remind me of Road Bike brakes, which merely slow the wheel a bit from time to time as you navigate around the obstacle.
 
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