New spin video from Microsoft's new flight simulator!

I'm watching this closely. Microsoft has indicated that is will not require a subscription. It does appear that the scenery is heavily based on Bing imagery. My guess is that it will likely require an active online connection to stream to your PC. I don't know if that will require a subscription or not. Either way, I'm looking forward to it. I use P3D and X-Plane both to run instrument approaches and practice procedural flows. I've found it incredibly helpful.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Not in tandem airplanes.
Click to expand...
If that was actually the reason that all gaming joysticks are right handed I'd be dually impressed..

Actually surprised how hard it is to find realistic yokes and joysticks. With the thousands of examples of PA-28, Cirrus, C172, C182, etc., out there you'd think it'd be easy for someone to mold an actual, real joysick... and recreate it near identically. Seems your only options are something that looks remarkably fake.. or something that would be more at home in a Starship
 
Tantalum said:
If that was actually the reason that all gaming joysticks are right handed I'd be dually impressed..
Click to expand...
I believe most, if not all fighter aircraft are right hand stick. If not modern ones, then certainly WWII ones. Obviously the demographic they're going for is military fighter aircraft moreso than civilian. Their market is probably bigger for game nerds that way, than it is for civilian pilots looking for realism.
 
There are Jsticks that can be configured for either hand, and also you can get Flight yokes, Rudder pedals..., if you desire. In addition to acf with the ability to use Right or Left hand, many of the new LSAs, you have CFI that mostly / only use the right hand , regardless of acft, without a problem.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Semi-related, I got in on the pre-order for a flight yoke for running FSX or X11 on my home computer (nothing fancy, just a Dell XPS so no uber-high frame rates). Honeycomb Aeronautical has a new Alpha flight control yoke that should ship to me this month or early next month and was only $220. I figured it was worth trying versus buying a tired Saitek or Logitech yoke. I'm still going to have to figure out rudder pedals/throttle quadrant until Honeycomb finishes development on the Bravo throttle quadrant in Q1-2020.

hqdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

Love to hear some feedback on this when you get it. The thing I dislike most about my flight sim is the plastic-y feeling yoke, with no precision control. It works, but not awesome by any stretch.
Don't want to spend a grand or more on one either, so hopefully this is a happy medium.
 
I’m excited to check it out. From the early reports, everyone seems to be fairly impressed with it, especially at that <$250 price point. Yeah, it’s not going to have any force feedback, or be able to recreate the yoke dynamics of anything over a light twin, but for the price it should be a good setup. The Bravo throttle controls are able to be set up for single engine or twin engine setup, so that adds some versatility, too. I mainly want this just to brush up on VFR stuff, maybe start working on IR basics before starting training. It ought to be good enough for that.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I believe most, if not all fighter aircraft are right hand stick.
Click to expand...
You are correct - and sidesticks are so far to the right there's not much of a way to use your left hand if you wanted to.

I tried to think of a military airplane that had left hand stick (not yoke) and right throttle. All I could think of was the left seat of the C-17, which has sticks for each front seat and a single throttle quadrant between them. Certainly no tactical airplanes that I'm aware of.

I showed up for RV transition in a training before my first flight - I was dismayed to see center throttle and an instructor who wanted me in the left seat. It didn't take as long as I expected to get a feel for it, although I clearly fly much better with my right hand on a stick or left hand on a yoke. Familiarity and muscle memory, I guess.

For sims, I'm holding out for an Intruder with decent systems modeling.:rockon:

Nauga,
who can't look aft over his right shoulder with a sidestick
 
SoonerAviator said:
Semi-related, I got in on the pre-order for a flight yoke for running FSX or X11 on my home computer (nothing fancy, just a Dell XPS so no uber-high frame rates). Honeycomb Aeronautical has a new Alpha flight control yoke that should ship to me this month or early next month and was only $220. I figured it was worth trying versus buying a tired Saitek or Logitech yoke. I'm still going to have to figure out rudder pedals/throttle quadrant until Honeycomb finishes development on the Bravo throttle quadrant in Q1-2020.

hqdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

@SoonerAviator ... did you ever get this?
If so, how bout a PIREP?
 
Last edited:
SoonerAviator said:
Semi-related, I got in on the pre-order for a flight yoke for running FSX or X11 on my home computer (nothing fancy, just a Dell XPS so no uber-high frame rates). Honeycomb Aeronautical has a new Alpha flight control yoke that should ship to me this month or early next month and was only $220. I figured it was worth trying versus buying a tired Saitek or Logitech yoke. I'm still going to have to figure out rudder pedals/throttle quadrant until Honeycomb finishes development on the Bravo throttle quadrant in Q1-2020.

hqdefault.jpg
Click to expand...
Skyrys62 said:
@SoonerAviator ... did you ever get this?
Is so, how bout a PIREP?
Click to expand...
the yokes are shipping now. I saw a couple of YouTube reviews that were pretty good. The only issue for me is the throttle quadrant is not shipping until sometime in 2020 and there is no throttle control on the yoke. I also wasn’t all that excited about paying $250 for a throttle quadrant. I would like to ditch the CH yoke. It’s barely usable.
 
Tantalum said:
It would also be nice if this would work with an Oculus..
Click to expand...

The developers intend for it to have VR support, though likely not at launch from what I've read. Would give me a good reason to upgrade my Rift.
 
mryan75 said:
Ah, so it's going to be web-based? Wonder what the subscription fee is going to be.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. The fast internet connection is only required for the super-high-detail environment textures. It will be able to run with no internet connection at all and have a sufficient level of terrain detail from what I've seen.
 
Not a lot of visuals but a great interview about what's coming:
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Yes and no. The fast internet connection is only required for the super-high-detail environment textures. It will be able to run with no internet connection at all and have a sufficient level of terrain detail from what I've seen.
Click to expand...
See again, this entire time I've just been waiting for the asterisk. I stand by my statement that I will believe it when I see it, when it is loaded on my computer running like these videos. Until then I will believe it's going to be like it has always been: major compromises, and only able to run by supercomputer.
 
Jim_CAK said:
I also wasn’t all that excited about paying $250 for a throttle quadrant.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you know already, but you can get the Saitek Throttle Quadrant for 59.99 at several shops... I might even double that up for twin training if I can get a used one somewhere. upload_2019-11-18_8-56-1.jpeg

Here is the real temptation that I am resisting...for now lol.
Thrustmaster TPR rudder pedals

Also these:

And finally:
 
Last edited:
Skyrys62 said:
If you haven't seen this one, it's pretty in depth. It's got Austin from X-Plane doing the hands on.
Long..but makes the choice easier for sure....other than the potential of the Brunner model.

Click to expand...
Bought the YOKO and TQ6+ about six months ago. Hands down, the most realistic feeling flightsim yoke I've ever used! CH and Saitek feel like plastic toys in comparison. The smoothness and precision of the YOKO is something that has to be experienced in order to appreciate, as well as justify the cost, lol.
 
Side note on the Austin video. He and Mike Brown has convinced me to take my flight simulator to the next level $$$:eek:
I recently purchase the RealSimGear G1000 kit and my custom-built Stay Level Avionix panel is being manufactured for my simpit (not a desk) at this moment. It should be completed in a few more weeks.
Similar to the Model 11 shown in this video, except mine will be mounted in the pit, not sitting on a table/desktop.

Damn you Austin!:D
 
Last edited:
redtail said:
Bought the YOKO and TQ6+ about six months ago. Hands down, the most realistic feeling flightsim yoke I've ever used! CH and Saitek feel like plastic toys in comparison. The smoothness and precision of the YOKO is something that has to be experienced in order to appreciate, as well as justify the cost, lol.
Click to expand...
For $1,100 I'll stick to my plastic toys.
 
Last edited:
mryan75 said:
For $1,100 ill stick to my plastic toys.
Click to expand...
Perfectly understood.
It's like everything else in life...It is either worth the expense for what you get out of it, or it's not. I've been an avid flightsimmer for nearly four decades (real pilot for two). So, I've invested a ton of money into this 'hobby' and have zero regrets. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, gamble, party, etc. Never have o_O
 
Last edited:
mryan75 said:
For $1,100 ill stick to my plastic toys.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is going to pay you $1,100 to stick to your plastic toys ;)

Seriously though, the Alpha yoke looks really nice for $249... so for those looking, it's likely a MUCH better purchase than a $189 CH or Saitek.

I've been on a REDBIRD a couple times, and although it's nice, it's still not perfect either.
The biggest issue for me on the yokes is that they will come to rest not perfectly centered... thus causing climb/descent. Pretty frustrating when trying to maintain altitudes in IFR and especially on glideslopes. You can offset that some with rudder pedals to get some turns in without touching the yoke. But if the rudder pedals suck, that gets frustrating too.
Hopefully the Alpha yoke will remedy that enough to enjoy training on a sim. I haven't tried the Yoko..
 
I have a decent X-plane 11 setup (Saitek yoke/rudder/throttle/radio/multi/switch panels/head tracking), the weak link in that setup is definitely the yoke, so I may have to pull the trigger on the honeycomb, it definitely seems better than what I'm currently using. I keep wondering where VR is going to take all of this. I messed around with some VR goggles at my nephew's house, but haven't used them with a flight sim.
 
mryan75 said:
For $1,100 ill stick to my plastic toys.
Click to expand...
You may want to look at that Honeycomb yoke. From the review Austin posted, he said not quite as good as the Yoko - but it is only $250 at Sportys. I have had a CH yoke for a long time and always thought I should have just stuck with a joystick. I am going to get the Honeycomb yoke - but have to get a throttle quadrant.
 
Challenged said:
I keep wondering where VR is going to take all of this.
Click to expand...

For me...VR is excellent for the immersion. The biggest factor right now is control access. It's clumsy with the goggles on. However, If you memorize the locations of your controls, it's doable.

I believe it will get better. Maybe through XPlane, maybe MSFT, who knows. But there are possibilities already available if the programmers will do the work.
I play some poker online in VR. The usage of the hands is good, and getting better, especially with the new equipment available.
See the Valve Index below. With hands in the cockpit, it would be much better.

Even met a couple of pilots on there...no one from this board I know of. The social aspect is great. A lot of fun.
 
Skyrys62 said:
For me...VR is excellent for the immersion. The biggest factor right now is control access. It's clumsy with the goggles on. However, If you memorize the locations of your controls, it's doable.
Click to expand...

Yup, having to use the mouse or an Oculus Touch controller to interact with the panel totally broke it for me. That, and the resolution of my Rift just isn't quite good enough with Xplane to be able to read the fine details like radio frequencies or OBS settings. For just general flying around, it was awesome. I've got the computer hardware to fun anything for the next few years, so once this comes out hopefully the headset tech will have progressed a little further as well.
 
Skyrys62 said:
For me...VR is excellent for the immersion. The biggest factor right now is control access. It's clumsy with the goggles on. However, If you memorize the locations of your controls, it's doable.

I believe it will get better. Maybe through XPlane, maybe MSFT, who knows. But there are possibilities already available if the programmers will do the work.
I play some poker online in VR. The usage of the hands is good, and getting better, especially with the new equipment available.
See the Valve Index below. With hands in the cockpit, it would be much better.

Even met a couple of pilots on there...no one from this board I know of. The social aspect is great. A lot of fun.
Click to expand...
I concur, which is why I've decided that I need both. A 2D setup (for serious practice) as well as a VR setup (for fun). My dilemma is twofold because I use my flightsim setup for both.

DCS World is my primary use for VR at the moment. The immersion you get from sitting INSIDE of an A-10C or F/A-18 cockpit in VR, while your hands are on a Thrustmaster HOTAS, is absolutely incredible!!!

As someone who missed my calling as a fighter pilot, this is well worth the price of admission :)
 
Last edited:
Skyrys62 said:
@SoonerAviator ... did you ever get this?
If so, how bout a PIREP?
Click to expand...
@Jim_CAK @Challenged

I did and I've been meeting to take some pics and post a thread about it. Long story short, the Honeycomb Alpha yoke is worth every penny, and I've only managed to play around with it for an few hours so far (received it over a month ago). I've only every handled the CH/Saitek yokes, so I don't have an upper-echelon product to compare it to. However, the yoke feel, button/trigger quality, friction, etc. are all top notch. It weighs more than the Saitek/CH products by a fair margin, but isn't unwieldy. Even the packaging was very solidly designed and executed to ensure damage couldn't happen. I don't think there's a product even at the $400 price point that matches it. If you are in the market, get it, you won't be disappointed. I have casually seen some commentary about getting some of the last of the kinks worked out with certain configurations in X-Plane, but it seems to be mostly from users with a very specific set of parameters they are trying to map out. Either way, their support team/forums seem to be pretty responsive. It was plug-n-play for me and my modest Dell XPS desktop and FSX. I can't wait until the Bravo controls come out which adds trim wheel/configurable throttle levers for single/multi and includes the big iron/turbine controls as well (with functional reversers). I believe those are due out sometime in 2020 Q1 or Q2.
 
Thanks Sooner. I see some holes on the top of the Honeycomb. Does anyone know offhand if I can attach my Saitek panel items to the Honeycomb unit?
 
Challenged said:
Thanks Sooner. I see some holes on the top of the Honeycomb. Does anyone know offhand if I can attach my Saitek panel items to the Honeycomb unit?
Click to expand...
According to their web page: https://flyhoneycomb.com/
It's compatible with Saitech Pro Flight Gear.

Also, thanks, Sooner. I hadn't heard about these yokes until you mentioned them in this thread.
I've gotten probably too accustomed to the CH Products premium yoke; I do not like all the residual friction in the yoke, it makes trimming really hard. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas.

Edit:
I noticed that the yoke has a USB-C connector. It's form factor is completely different than the previous USB connectors. A couple of questions: 1) Did your computer already have a USB-C type jack 2) If not, what adapter are you using?
 
Last edited:
Crashnburn said:
According to their web page: https://flyhoneycomb.com/
It's compatible with Saitech Pro Flight Gear.

Also, thanks, Sooner. I hadn't heard about these yokes until you mentioned them in this thread.
I've gotten probably too accustomed to the CH Products premium yoke; I do not like all the residual friction in the yoke, it makes trimming really hard. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas.

Edit:
I noticed that the yoke has a USB-C connector. It's form factor is completely different than the previous USB connectors. A couple of questions: 1) Did your computer already have a USB-C type jack 2) If not, what adapter are you using?
Click to expand...
Regarding trimming, if there is one add-on for P3D (or FSX) that I absolutely could not live without, no way, no how, it's this:

https://www.blublu.at/BluBlu/en/realtrim-professional-unique-new-trim-system-for-fsx-and-p3d/

Put simply, you designate a trim key, pitch for whatever airspeed/trim condition you desire, click your trim key and hold it down, release the pressure on your yoke, release the trim key, and you're trimmed. It is ten times easier than my last sentence makes it seem. For example, you turn base to final, pull back on the yoke to slow down, get to the airspeed you want, hold the trim key, release the yoke pressure, release the trim key, and you're done. All trimmed out. No holding back or forward pressure and clicking a button 50 times, feeling where it is, clicking it another 20 times, ad infinitum, and never getting the trim right. It's a normal, intuitive process.

It is stupid easy, and it is by far the one program that makes simulator flight realistic for me. Clicking a pusher button 50 times one way, up or down, to trim is just retarded.

if you have any questions about the program or problems installing it, PM me. I have no association with it at all, but without this program I would quit simming. That's how much it improves the experience.
 
Yeah prior to getting the YOKO, I've only had the CH and Saitek yokes. Both of them has the friction problem, which is most noticeable when trying to level off and trim. Extremely noticeable while trying to transition in the flare and landing phase. Tried all kinds of lubes and rubber band mods, which helped, but nothing really solved the issue. The YOKO is so smooth it is unbelievable. I took it apart to tighten a few screws on the bungee cord clamps (minor factory flaw) and was very impressed with it's construction. The thing slides to and fro on a metal gear track system with bungee cords attached to provide an increasing amount of tension in pitch and roll. No force feedback, but it feels very convincing!

All metal and very heavy. You absolutely must attach it with the desk clamp and hand tighten it well. Built like a tank!
 
redtail said:
Yeah prior to getting the YOKO, I've only had the CH and Saitek yokes. Both of them has the friction problem, which is most noticeable when trying to level off and trim. Extremely noticeable while trying to transition in the flare and landing phase. Tried all kinds of lubes and rubber band mods, which helped, but nothing really solved the issue. The YOKO is so smooth it is unbelievable. I took it apart to tighten a few screws on the bungee cord clamps (minor factory flaw) and was very impressed with it's construction. The thing slides to and fro on a metal gear track system with bungee cords attached to provide an increasing amount of tension in pitch and roll. No force feedback, but it feels very convincing!

All metal and very heavy. You absolutely must attach it with the desk clamp and hand tighten it well. Built like a tank!
Click to expand...

Haven't tried the YOKO, but it sounds similar to the Honeycomb Alpha. The Honeycomb gives you a few different mounting options (including desk clamping). However, I just used the mounting base which has a sticky/non-permanent anti-slip pad on the bottom and it performed great with no sliding/movement of the controls even when under full deflection fore/aft/side-to-side.
 
mryan75 said:
Regarding trimming, if there is one add-on for P3D (or FSX) that I absolutely could not live without, no way, no how, it's this:

https://www.blublu.at/BluBlu/en/realtrim-professional-unique-new-trim-system-for-fsx-and-p3d/

Put simply, you designate a trim key, pitch for whatever airspeed/trim condition you desire, click your trim key and hold it down, release the pressure on your yoke, release the trim key, and you're trimmed. It is ten times easier than my last sentence makes it seem. For example, you turn base to final, pull back on the yoke to slow down, get to the airspeed you want, hold the trim key, release the yoke pressure, release the trim key, and you're done. All trimmed out. No holding back or forward pressure and clicking a button 50 times, feeling where it is, clicking it another 20 times, ad infinitum, and never getting the trim right. It's a normal, intuitive process.

It is stupid easy, and it is by far the one program that makes simulator flight realistic for me. Clicking a pusher button 50 times one way, up or down, to trim is just retarded.

if you have any questions about the program or problems installing it, PM me. I have no association with it at all, but without this program I would quit simming. That's how much it improves the experience.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link to the trimming program. I have a bunch of Saitek Flight Panels. One of them has a trim wheel on it. Not close to the same as a Cessna trim wheel, but works the same. That's how you trim in a real plane.
 
Crashnburn said:
According to their web page: https://flyhoneycomb.com/
It's compatible with Saitech Pro Flight Gear.

Also, thanks, Sooner. I hadn't heard about these yokes until you mentioned them in this thread.
I've gotten probably too accustomed to the CH Products premium yoke; I do not like all the residual friction in the yoke, it makes trimming really hard. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas.

Edit:
I noticed that the yoke has a USB-C connector. It's form factor is completely different than the previous USB connectors. A couple of questions: 1) Did your computer already have a USB-C type jack 2) If not, what adapter are you using?
Click to expand...

The USB-C cord has a standard USB male-end for the computer-side. The small USB-C connector goes into the yoke. So, any normal USB port will work.
 
SoonerAviator said:
@Jim_CAK @Challenged

I did and I've been meeting to take some pics and post a thread about it. Long story short, the Honeycomb Alpha yoke is worth every penny, and I've only managed to play around with it for an few hours so far (received it over a month ago). I've only every handled the CH/Saitek yokes, so I don't have an upper-echelon product to compare it to. However, the yoke feel, button/trigger quality, friction, etc. are all top notch. It weighs more than the Saitek/CH products by a fair margin, but isn't unwieldy. Even the packaging was very solidly designed and executed to ensure damage couldn't happen. I don't think there's a product even at the $400 price point that matches it. If you are in the market, get it, you won't be disappointed. I have casually seen some commentary about getting some of the last of the kinks worked out with certain configurations in X-Plane, but it seems to be mostly from users with a very specific set of parameters they are trying to map out. Either way, their support team/forums seem to be pretty responsive. It was plug-n-play for me and my modest Dell XPS desktop and FSX. I can't wait until the Bravo controls come out which adds trim wheel/configurable throttle levers for single/multi and includes the big iron/turbine controls as well (with functional reversers). I believe those are due out sometime in 2020 Q1 or Q2.
Click to expand...
What are you doing for a throttle quadrant until the new unit comes out? That is the only thing stopping me from buying the yoke now. The CH yoke has them built in. I didn’t want to go buy another throttle quadrant then replace it in 6 months.
 
Jim_CAK said:
What are you doing for a throttle quadrant until the new unit comes out? That is the only thing stopping me from buying the yoke now. The CH yoke has them built in. I didn’t want to go buy another throttle quadrant then replace it in 6 months.
Click to expand...

Keypad 9, keypad 3 *ducks* lol. I’ve got a Saitek joystick that has a throttle lever built in but I’d rather use the yoke and deal with keyboard shortcuts until the Honeycomb Bravo comes out. I don’t have rudder pedals, either, so the auto-coordination is always on.
 
I see many posts about Yoke use.
I've been in GA and sims for long a time and tried all kinds of kinds of devices and sims and I can tell you that using a Yoke vs Joystick has minimal impact on the positive knowledge transferred.
It is more important that you have Rudder pedals and a controller / Joystick or Yoke, that gives you a smooth / precise and consistent / reliable control. Some of the better Joysticks that I used were the MS Sidewinder Precision Pro and Cyborg X.
It is also important that you can setup the views in the sim that replicate real life views, and you can use real life performance numbers and the flight dynamics, which most of the present sims lack
Many of the acft being built now do not have a yoke and I found it relatively easy to go from Yoke>Jstick>Stoke in real life flying.
Get something that you can assign most of the required functions from a High performance Complex like a C182RG, Trim, Flaps, Cowl, Fuel pump, Prop.. to your jstick and use the keyboard as little as possible.
Having to pay thousands of dollars for a game device does not seem reasonable to me, regardless of how much money you have.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top