New School Checkout

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mgpilot

Filing Flight Plan
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Matt
All --

I did a search but perhaps I'm not entering the right terms to get what I'm looking for.

I'm trying to understand what to expect from a checkout in a different flight school's plane? I have 21 hours in type and passed my checkride a bit more than a month ago (so in other words, I'm current).

Will we basically just go up and do a mini-checkride? Stalls, slow flight, landings, etc etc? What about ground work? What can I expect? Will it be another full blown oral? Or something different?

Thanks!
Matt
 
Usually a mini checkride. As you stated, slow flight, stalls, some landings, maybe emergency procedures. It is really up to the school and/or the CFI.
It really is a non event, I wouldn't worry about it.
As for oral, I personally have never sat down and done one for a checkout.
 
Matt:

Every school/rental is different but think of it as a BFR.
 
yup, no oral unless the flight goes poorly or demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the airspace/procedures in effect.

appx .7 in the plane to go to the practice area, crack off some slow flight and stalls, then back for some landings.

The point is to verify you're not going to bend the airplane or yourself. :) The checklist goes quickly and is a non-event.

I've heard of "5 hour checkout for the G1000" or other assorted hogwash under the guise of insurance requirement. The truth is, our insurance doesn't care. We do. :)
 
Mini-checkride. Typically, at the flight schools where I've worked, that means takeoffs, landings, stalls, slow flight, and steep turns. If you can do that right, and find your way to and from the practice area without assistance, that will usually get you privileges at the new school.

FWIW, my personal experience is that the steep turns will tell me right away if you can fly the plane or not, and the rest is just gravy/square filling/liability control.
 
Having done checkouts for every type in the flying club I belonged to, as well as for about 4 different rental outfits.. its pretty much go up, do slow flight, stalls or approaches to stalls.. steep turns to the level of your license.. then come back for a few landings. Usually an hour or less. Never ever flunked one.. but I never gave them a reason to either.

Essentially they just want to make sure you wont break the plane.. and have some confidence that your logbook isnt full of P-51 (Parker Pen) time..
 
Ron Levy said:
FWIW, my personal experience is that the steep turns will tell me right away if you can fly the plane or not, and the rest is just gravy/square filling/liability control.
Click to expand...

This belief has been expressed by many of the instructors I've flown with.. This one task brings it all together.. Pitch, power, trim, accuracy, coordination...
 
For me, besides steep turns and stalls and spin awareness, and a few other things, it usually includes soft and/or short field landings, and always some sort of surprise emergency - sometimes ending with a grass-field landing if I can swing it. I don't want the first time they land on grass to be the real emergency landing.

Ryan
 
I'm getting checked out in a Remos and it's definitely taking me more than an hour or so...stalls, slow flight & steep turns no problem...it's those landings!
 
murphey said:
I'm getting checked out in a Remos and it's definitely taking me more than an hour or so...stalls, slow flight & steep turns no problem...it's those landings!
Click to expand...

If you are going from 172 class planes to a Remos I would probably expect it to take a little longer. LSA, being much lighter, seem to take a bit of time to get used to.
 
Checkout at MGY to rent their 172SPs was a little ground on the EFI vs carb engine differences, a discussion to show how much I knew about the 172.. and validation that I just did some 172RG work.
The flight was .5. 3 To/L. If I hadnt just done some complex training (with another instructor, though) he said it would have included stalls. But nothing crazy.

I've heard of rental checkouts taking more than an hour. I think it varies, and is completely OK to ask beforehand - you dont want a 2hr checkout that includes showing you know how to use a VOR and land at a towered field in Bravo if all you plan to do is local flights to the airport next door, etc.

regards,
Mike
 
172S's have electronic fuel injection???

and yea, what everyone else said on the checkout. and second (or third) what Ron said about steep turns.
 
One thing I might add is that if you give me the heebie-jeebies about whether we can trust you with our airplane (either skill or judgement), the "checkout" may become a "test to destruction," in which I keep asking for more tasks until I find something you really can't do and then tell you that's why we're not renting you an airplane. Kinda like the first rule of practical tests -- "Don't scare the examiner." In rental checkouts, it's "Don't scare the instructor." And that includes what you say as well as what you do, both on the ground and in the air.
 
Thanks for all the input, guys. One other question -- who is the PIC in this case? Is that something that the CFI and I will discuss on the ground prior to departure? Or does it default to one of us?

Thanks,
Matt
 
mgpilot said:
One other question -- who is the PIC in this case? Is that something that the CFI and I will discuss on the ground prior to departure? Or does it default to one of us?
Click to expand...
The FAA's position (which is accepted by the NTSB ) is that whenever an instructor is giving instruction, the instructor is "deemed to be the pilot in command" (see below). Beyond that, any time there's more than on pilot at a control station, it's essential for safety, if not legality, that the roles and responsibilities of the various pilots be established on the ground before flight.

Regardless of who is manipulating the controls of the aircraft during an instructional flight, or what degree of proficiency the student has attained, the flight instructor is always deemed to be the pilot-in-command. Administrator v. Hamre, 3 NTSB 28, 31 (1977)
Click to expand...
 
Just thought I'd update that I did my checkout this morning and it was a piece of cake. Went up to practice area, CFI said "well, it's clear you can fly the plane -- which maneuvers do you want to do to feel comfortable with this airframe" as it was slightly different from the SportCruiser I had previously flown. Did a steep turn and stall and then headed back for some landings.

Thanks for the input guys! Also if anyone is looking for Sport Pilot in Boston it does exist!

Matt
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA's position (which is accepted by the NTSB ) is that whenever an instructor is giving instruction, the instructor is "deemed to be the pilot in command" (see below). Beyond that, any time there's more than on pilot at a control station, it's essential for safety, if not legality, that the roles and responsibilities of the various pilots be established on the ground before flight.
Click to expand...

I agree with the precedent. Have they ever squared that with the CFI not being required to act as PIC and not having a medical?
 
Ron Levy said:
Mini-checkride. Typically, at the flight schools where I've worked, that means takeoffs, landings, stalls, slow flight, and steep turns. If you can do that right, and find your way to and from the practice area without assistance, that will usually get you privileges at the new school.

FWIW, my personal experience is that the steep turns will tell me right away if you can fly the plane or not, and the rest is just gravy/square filling/liability control.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with Ron that by the time I've seen the steep turns I know if the customer can fly the airplane well enough; it's the engine-out drill a bit later that tells me about their judgement and PIC attitude. Actually had to turn a guy down (years ago) who flew over a private runway to try landing in a cornfield. That wasn't his only goof, tho.

All we want to know is that you will come back safely without busting any pieces or any serious regs. Of course, it helps that you can pay the bill :) :goofy:
 
I had a rental checkout last week that was pretty interesting. I asked a few basic questions about currency and operating rules and was very un-impressed. The guy even said he'd just done a flight review a few months back... but when I asked more questions it sounded a WHOLE lot like a walk-around flight review. Anyway, I went over some more of the currency and rules and flew with him. His flying was just fine, so I let him go, but I'd like to know who that flight review was done by... 'cause I'd not recommend him.

Ryan
 
It depends on what kind of A/C you want to fly. I know with our club, if you want to get checked out in a straight leg 172, its like a BFR, maybe a tad bit more of the flying. Now if you are wanting to get checked out in a lance or cirrus, there is going to be quite a bit more involved. If I were checking someone out in one of the latter planes, it would be more of 1-2 hours of ground and around 5 in the air.
 
Someone mentioned that the insurance companies want to see 5 hours. What they (insurance companies) are saying is ... 5 hours in the category, class, and specific model of airplane. You said you have Sport Cruiser experience, so you are already familiar with how an LSA flies in comparison to a C172 etc.

Most 'experienced' pilots CANNOT successfully fly a Remos, a Flight Design, etc without several hours of dual and transition training. They are not difficult, just different from heavier airplanes.

The accident statistics and insurance payouts prove this. It is not the students, it is the experienced pilots who are having insurance claims in LSA (also known as accidents and incidents).

So a rental checkout is going to be different for different pilots. If Hertz rented out $ 250,000 cars... you can bet their checkout would be different as well.
 
Avis rents Ferrari Enzos in Germany for 5800 Euros a day. There's no check out except of your Visa card.

My checkouts for rental have ranged from someone pointing out the plane to me to a Flight Review level flight.
 
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