New requirement to carry ad list/compliance in a/c for training/testing?

Retro Manger said:
None. Or maybe only one in the mid-90s. And they are flying A320s, A330s, 737s and more. In Europe and Asia.

Point being - ACS is not a the Bible. There are plenty of pilots Worldwide that fly safely, without going through FAA current system. Which means, that system is not perfect, because people - as in this thread - are complaining about what ridiculous things prevent them for being licensed.

Now before jumping me on how good the system is and how "you should comply, because its the LAW!", please consider this:

You are going to rent a car. In a different state that you are coming from. Car rental asks you for your license, then give you the option - either you will pay for an hour with us, or you won't get a car.
You pay for the hour, so they can check can you drive and is your license fake or whatever, then they give you a car.
Then you go to another State and this repeats itself.
You don't drive for 4 months. Ooops. You gotta drive with us again. You might've forgotten.

How many times have you checked the TAGs of the rental you took?
How many cars have you owned and knowing their systems? The battery power? Is it drive-by-wire or no?
Did they asked you those questions at the DMV?
YET - millions of people drive cars on a daily basis.
I can't imagine having video courses or books on: HOW TO PASS YOUR DMV EXAM being sold at such quantity and by so many producers.

FAA rules are not perfect. Nothing is. DPEs exploit those. They torture students. More often than not. Every DPE wants a different thing. Every DPE tries to prove you un-prepared. You fight to prove otherwise. Getting a license is not a journey. It is a fistfight. Especially in the final stages.
I've never heard of a system that fails so many of its applicants. Yet, people are flying all over the World and at many places - with safer records than here.

Let me add something else:
Example A:
3 years ago, a pilot on a Private Checkride. DPE asks demo of a short field. Never used the flaps on take-off, because the instructor taught him that way. DPE fails him.

Example B:
5 years ago, same thing, DPE asks - if you turn off the MASTER, will the engine stop. Student hesitates, says "I think so". Failed.

Now, you tell me, were those legitimate failure reasons? It is sure as hell that the one that thread is about isn't.

Example A: Wasn't the right way to ask : show me a short field with FLAPS.
Example B: You need to study through this with your instructor because it is important.

I've just heard about 5 hour IR oral. Why? The pilot examined told me: How come the DPE would've know that I know everything?
He couldn't. Because you don't. Neither does he.
5 hour oral and I have no appetite to go to lunch. Let alone to go flying.

I've been asked about the elements of the ILS. There are 4. And I know FAA IR licensed pilots that do not know those. Should they be failed?
Come on.
Click to expand...
So you’re saying DPEs should ignore the ACS. Gotcha.
 
I said it already. Too much power into the hands of random men.
DPEs are just men. They do mistakes on a daily basis. They should tolerate mistakes of others.
However, they exploit the system to make money. Simple as that.

Summum Jus Summa Injuria - Cicero.

P.S. Not all of them. But large fraction. Otherwise, threads like the one we are writing in, wouldn't exist.
No ad's on board, no checkride. Give me a break!
Looking at the thread it seems like a lawyers forum. Not pilot's.
 
Retro Manger said:
I said it already. Too much power into the hands of random men.
DPEs are just men. They do mistakes on a daily basis. They should tolerate mistakes of others.
However, they exploit the system to make money. Simple as that.

Summum Jus Summa Injuria - Cicero.

P.S. Not all of them. But large fraction. Otherwise, threads like the one we are writing in, wouldn't exist.
No ad's on board, no checkride. Give me a break!
Looking at the thread it seems like a lawyers forum. Not pilot's.
Click to expand...
The DPE’s power is limited by the ACS. I don’t see enough info here to say the DPE was wrong in the case of this thread, but your two examples of checkride busts are clearly busts per the ACS. I bet if your 767 captains used the wrong flap setting on takeoff from a minimum-length runway, it would result in damage if not injury or death. I’m also sure hat if they were afraid to follow an emergency checklist because they didn’t know what would happen when they turned off a certain switch, they wouldn’t resolve the emergency, with injury or death again as possibilities. But more than likely the oral bust was just the point where the DPE stopped trying to dig for knowledge that wasn’t there.
 
Again - Summum Jus Summa Injuria
If you cannot use enough common sense to understand what I meant by the examples, or you justify the lack of ADs on board as a reason to NOT do a checkride...well, that's your cup of tea then!

I saw you updated your post, so I should do the same:

Consider this:
I was at a FSDO in major city in US, where a former A320 pilot working there didn't know that there is an inhibition of the spoiler use with FLAP 4 setting on that very same plane.
You can now continue to think about all that.
 
Retro Manger said:
Again - Summum Jus Summa Injuria
If you cannot use enough common sense to understand what I meant by the examples, or you justify the lack of ADs on board as a reason to NOT do a checkride...well, that's your cup of tea then!
Click to expand...
And ignoring the ACS is your cup of tea.
 
Retro Manger said:
DPEs are just men. They do mistakes on a daily basis. They should tolerate mistakes of others.
Click to expand...


DPEs should "tolerate" mistakes on a checkride? Is that what you're saying? That would be fraught with danger and have a high risk of putting unqualified pilots into the sky as PICs.
 
Of course. Mistakes happen on a daily basis. DPEs should use common sense. There are minor mistakes. There are major ones. Don't want to give examples because it might be considered a 'rant'.
I cannot imagine pilot that does not mistakes. Are you one?
Or you think that if you do mistake-less checkride, that means you won't do mistakes next month?
I believe that this falls under category of dangerous attitudes.
 
Retro Manger said:
Of course. Mistakes happen on a daily basis. DPEs should use common sense. There are minor mistakes. There are major ones. Don't want to give examples because it might be considered a 'rant'.
I cannot imagine pilot that does not mistakes. Are you one?
Or you think that if you do mistake-less checkride, that means you won't do mistakes next month?
I believe that this falls under category of dangerous attitudes.
Click to expand...
True, there are no checkrides without mistakes…that’s why the ACS gives leeway.

but this thread isn’t about busting a checkride.
 
There is plenty of information to know that this is wrong.
The REAL problem is this:
You cannot take your money back, nor your stress, nor your preparation days wasted.
The DPE got their envelope of hardly-traceable-cash money you earned with your hard work.
No consequences. No reimbursements. No DPE-license revoked.
You are ....you know what, and you can do NOTHING about it.

Very very nice.
Until there is no consequences for the both sides of the checkride, there will be no justice.
 
Oh, I need to learn Latin so that I can sound more intelligent. To think that I wasted my foreign language requirement learning jive due to the movie Airplane.
 
Retro Manger said:
The REAL problem is this:
You cannot take your money back, nor your stress, nor your preparation days wasted.
The DPE got their envelope of hardly-traceable-cash money you earned with your hard work.
Click to expand...
Where do you see that the checkride was paid for?
 
I haven't, but from experience I know that checkride does not start if the DPE doesn't get the money, because there are cases when the applicants refused to pay on the basis of unjust decisions /according to them/. Yet another sign that something is WRONG.

What I starting to figure out is how you get 11,233 posts though.
I rest my case. If you think the system is perfect, suit yourself.
Fish don't know they are in the water - no Latin knowledge needed to get that either.
 
Evidently posting in Latin reduces the ability to read English.

The first post said "decline to test an applicant"
I guess that means bust/fail a check ride in Latin.

You do know that paperwork checks are done before the ride actually begins, yes?
 
Nope, not always. Again - from experience.
Again - I rest my case.
 
Retro Manger said:
Nope, not always. Again - from experience.
Again - I rest my case.
Click to expand...

So it really is just a reading comprehension issue for you then? And what case? Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer has a better case.
 
Retro Manger said:
The DPE got their envelope of hardly-traceable-cash money you earned with your hard work.
Click to expand...
Not quite. Every designee action is recorded in the DMS. Hardly untraceable and a big point of contention with the IRS should a designee wish to try and hide that money.
Retro Manger said:
and you can do NOTHING about it.
Click to expand...
Why not? There are several FAA avenues to follow if a designee goes off script. But you best be sure you're correct when you start that process.
 
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