New planes take longer to get airborne?

TheGolfPilot

TheGolfPilot

Line Up and Wait
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Modesto, CA
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Golfpilot
I have flown in a few Cirrus' and a couple other Glass panel planes and it always seems to take forever for the computer to bootup and runups seems to take longer. Then the other day as I got out to my plane at Hawthorne a SR20 and sr22 were starting up. I did a full preflight, started up, did my runup, picked up my IFR clearance, waited for 2 planes to land, another takeoff, and had switched to departure before both Cirrus' even left the runup area.
Is there really that much extra stuff to get these planes into the air?
Why are the pilots of these newer planes so much slower to takeoff? Am a just coming acrossed the wrong group of people?
Whats the purpose of having such a fast plane if you are going to eat up your miles per minute not moving waiting for the plane to be ready?
 
Some people are just slow.

Last weekend, taking a break for fresher, warm air, I watched a V-tail Bo taxi out. No one else was in the pattern or on the ground. It must have been ten minutes before he started his takeoff roll. I was thinking that maybe he had broken down a couple hundred yards before the hold short when he started moving again, then he sat at the line for another 2-3 minutes before moving slowly onto the runway. After another (brief) sit, he finally started moving . . .
 
It must be all the tech advanced stuff...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a brand new Cirrus but I grew up on steam guages and the old 180 is like my old favorite lazy-boy lounge chair. I get in it after pre-flight and it's like firing up and flying my Ford truck.

If I ever built a plane, I'd use an old race car drivers trick to align all my engine and any other needle-type guages where when they are operating normal they would all point straight up. It just takes a glance to see everything's alright.
 
It's true.

The PC12 vs the C208B with out even a AP.

I'll be airborne before the PC12 is through her checks.

Both great airframes, just way more systems in one.

For most GA folks it just gets stupid after a certain point.
 
It takes a couple minutes for the AHRS to get its bearings but that's it. Small price to pay for a nice solid-state system not dependent on vacuums and mechanical gyros.

Probably just pilots either learning or taking their time though.
 
People are slow. Zombie phones don't help. Can you get Facebook on the g-1000?
 
Certainly not saying you, but I have seen many people complain about others being slow. I reality, it was them that are rushing and missing things.
 
The opposite of inefficient puttering doesnt have to be reckless rushing. Spend a little mental energy and your travel times are similar to the next class up of airplane.
 
Some of the glass checklists take a while. G1000s have three different electrical systems to check, for instance. Testing the standby alone requires setting it to discharge, waiting to make sure it can hack it, then booting the PFD. None of that stuff even exists on a steam gauge version of the same airplane.
 
ClimbnSink said:
The opposite of inefficient puttering doesnt have to be reckless rushing. Spend a little mental energy and your travel times are similar to the next class up of airplane.
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Yup. A flow takes about 1/3rd the time of a checklist. On identical trips with one of my co-workers I am 15-20 mins faster on a 2 hour trip because I allocate my time more efficiently.
 
DavidWhite said:
Yup. A flow takes about 1/3rd the time of a checklist. On identical trips with one of my co-workers I am 15-20 mins faster on a 2 hour trip because I allocate my time more efficiently.
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A flow should always be backed up with a checklist. Not to be confused with a "do list".
 
MAKG1 said:
Some of the glass checklists take a while. G1000s have three different electrical systems to check, for instance. Testing the standby alone requires setting it to discharge, waiting to make sure it can hack it, then booting the PFD. None of that stuff even exists on a steam gauge version of the same airplane.
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Yeah but that stuff is done before you hit the starter. Once the prop is turning it's mostly the same. There are 2 or 3 places to enter the baro setting instead of 1, a CDI to select, a GPS status page to check and you should enter in the altitude preselects, but those only take a couple seconds each and you could argue that those extra items are balanced out somewhat by the slaved HSI and the auto-selecting xpdr modes.

The OP had said the others had already started up when he did his preflight.
 
I think some of the larger schools are teaching the long runup times. They are charging by the Hour and are using instructors that were taught the same way. Everyf all I bring my glider and camper to an airport that has a university flight school. We camp on the airport. It seems every school plane comes out and does a 5 minute runup. We have considered make a big timer and displaying the record time for a run up.
 
Kritchlow said:
A flow should always be backed up with a checklist. Not to be confused with a "do list".
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Absolutely. But it takes no time at all to back up a flow with a checklist instead of going through the checklist step by step.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I have flown in a few Cirrus' and a couple other Glass panel planes and it always seems to take forever for the computer to bootup
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I'm guessing the computer you're talking about is either the PFD, MFD, or maybe the AHRS gyros.

For the PFD and AHRS, it helps to turn on the battery immediately when I open the door to get in the plane. That way, the PFD and AHRS are starting up while I prepare my headset, ipad, and other cockpit stuff.
 
James331 said:
It's true.

The PC12 vs the C208B with out even a AP.

I'll be airborne before the PC12 is through her checks.

Both great airframes, just way more systems in one.

For most GA folks it just gets stupid after a certain point.
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Do you recall last week when I posted that a friend that owned a 182 and a Meridian said he could be in the air flying for 10-15 minutes while in the Meridian he would still be on the ground fooling around with stuff?

You brushed that aside , saying you could start a PT-6 in three minutes. But your reply above is exactly what I was talking about.
 
3393RP said:
Do you recall last week when I posted that a friend that owned a 182 and a Meridian said he could be in the air flying for 10-15 minutes while in the Meridian he would still be on the ground fooling around with stuff?

You brushed that aside , saying you could start a PT-6 in three minutes. But your reply above is exactly what I was talking about.
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Ummm....a Caravan has a PT6....
 
There's no finesse to starting a pt6. Atleast in the caravan you do your typical cockpit flow supplemented by a checklist (45-60 seconds) battery - on fuel boost - on and then you hit the start switch. At 12% Ng you can throw the fuel to it and then it starts. It's seriously that easy. Just as quick as a piston. With no finagling because the engine is hot/cold/whatever. You either get 12% or you don't. (Although starting at 12% yields a fairly hot start)
 
Are you sure that the Cirrus guys didn't want to just wait to let the engine properly warm up?
 
Maciej said:
Are you sure that the Cirrus guys didn't want to just wait to let the engine properly warm up?
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Or testing / calibrating the equipment, or doing a new panel procedure, updating the data base, ect. Without knowing what the pilot is doing its hard to say anything. :rolleyes:
 
I don't taxi until my oil temp needle comes alive. I don't takeoff until it's in the green.

A Cirrus, with the Avidyne system, is pretty darn simple. If I didn't have to wait for the engine temps, I'd be airborne in two minutes.
 
Probably following the electronic checklist,which can be extensive.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I don't taxi until my oil temp needle comes alive. I don't takeoff until it's in the green.

A Cirrus, with the Avidyne system, is pretty darn simple. If I didn't have to wait for the engine temps, I'd be airborne in two minutes.
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There are plenty of reasons why they might be taking longer though. Setting up frequencies, doing a passenger briefing if the passengers are new to aviation, etc. The planes are capable of taking off rather quickly, but it's usually the pilots that take their time to prepare for the flight. There are times I'll hop in and ready to taxi and take off quickly. Other times I review a route and frequencies since I'll be traversing the Bravo and have to take an unusual route.
 
Maciej said:
Are you sure that the Cirrus guys didn't want to just wait to let the engine properly warm up?
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He said it was last weekend and he's in the LA area. I seriously doubt that the temp was that cold enough to need a lengthy warm up period before takeoff.

This time of year, my temps are usually in the green as soon as the engines are started.
 
Pistons are quicker to start than turbines. At least for me. If a piston is slower to start, you don't know how to start engines or there's a problem. A turbine with a problem also won't start, and will cost you $50k.

Computers have something to do with it, but it really is pilot more than anything. Some are slow and methodical. Some are quick with a more efficient checklist/flow setup. Some just kick the tires and light the fires. It doesn't take me long to get off the ground.
 
Get on the radio and ask them why they are taking so long. Then ask how many hours it took them to solo and how many to get ppl.:lol:
 
3393RP said:
Do you recall last week when I posted that a friend that owned a 182 and a Meridian said he could be in the air flying for 10-15 minutes while in the Meridian he would still be on the ground fooling around with stuff?

You brushed that aside , saying you could start a PT-6 in three minutes. But your reply above is exactly what I was talking about.
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No, I said the same thing, in many turbines you have more avionics and systems checks, nothing to do with the power plant.

And being airborne for 10-15min is still out there in that situation, especially in cold weather.

DavidWhite said:
Ummm....a Caravan has a PT6....
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I've never flown one with a PT-6, TPE331s.. a mans caravan ;)
 
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MAKG1 said:
Some of the glass checklists take a while. G1000s have three different electrical systems to check, for instance. Testing the standby alone requires setting it to discharge, waiting to make sure it can hack it, then booting the PFD. None of that stuff even exists on a steam gauge version of the same airplane.
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Wait...what? That is not on the DA-40 pre-flight checklist. What plane are you flying?
 
Its like everything else in cell phone and computer interface technology today. They have put so many "features" that do work if you know how to use them. It now takes 6 times as many clicks or keystrokes to do something on a cell phone. Eever heard of "hover"? Just put the cursor there and leave it "for a bit" (no one knows how long), and presto, it is like you clicked. The interfaces have become unstable. Unable to repeat the action because the user doesn't know what he did to initiate it. No way to speak about what is occurring the action does not have a name, just an international "icon". Disappearing scroll bars. They have been taken over by moron marketing twerps. All decisions made on the golf course by "one of the morons".

I know an international icon Id like to flip these moron traitors.

And now they are designing avionics interfaces.
 
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The Cirrus does not take that long at all.... Generally once the engine is started and the bus is on you are up and running in probably 2 minutes. Although I've never timed it.

While I like having the checklist on the G1000 in flight - I much rather use a paper checklist on the ground, and do. I also do a LOP run-up as taught by www.AdvancedPilot.com - so it really doesn't take much longer than it did when I started in the Skycatcher - but in fairness that was glass too... just not nearly as fast or fun as the Cirrus!
 
Taking selfies can take time.
Then checking with others if they are good, and retaking them.
Then Instagramming them.
Plus posting on Facebook.
And then on Swarm you sometimes wait for the location to be found.
 
My perspective (G1000) cirrus's avionics power up quicker than my previous Avidyne Cirrus but I have to wait a lot longer now since this plane is a turbocharged model and it needs much higher oil temp for takeoff.
 
Flying Viking said:
Wait...what? That is not on the DA-40 pre-flight checklist. What plane are you flying?
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MAKG1 said:
182T Nav III.

It's in the before engine start checklist, not preflight.

It doesn't look like a DA40 has the same kind of standby battery.
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Does your DA40 have dual alternators? Cessna 172/182-G1000 only has one.
 
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