New permanent NYC "T"FR

BigBadLou

BigBadLou

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Lou
Sorry if this is a re-post, I looked but haven't seen it posted here yet.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_5257.html

The FAA has issued a new "temporary-my-a**" Flight Restriction over Manhattan.
Guess whose nest that is?

Anyway, the graphic makes it look like it cuts completely across the Hudson VFR Corridor.
I wonder if the Secret Service even asked anybody from the flying world about the ramifications of this FR zone.

What say you, New Yorkers, is this TFR as bad as the illustration makes it look?
 
BigBadLou said:
Sorry if this is a re-post, I looked but haven't seen it posted here yet.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_5257.html

The FAA has issued a new "temporary-my-a**" Flight Restriction over Manhattan.
Guess whose nest that is?

Anyway, the graphic makes it look like it cuts completely across the Hudson VFR Corridor.
I wonder if the Secret Service even asked anybody from the flying world about the ramifications of this FR zone.

What say you, New Yorkers, is this TFR as bad as the illustration makes it look?
Click to expand...

I have some land in British Columbia for sale.
 
I just called NY TRACON to find out if we can go through the TFR for the Hudson River if we get a class B Clearence with a discrete squawk code and he said as of now, no. They are putting people above the TFR though but at that point the view isn't that great.
 
Yeah, I can't believe the SS didn't even bother to pick up the phone and call the FAA or ZNY to ask how to shape the PFR.
They could have at least ended it on the west side on the river bank of Manhattan to allow the Hudson VFR Corridor its continued existence.
 
I suspect that the SS couldn't care less about the Hudson River Corridor even if they did know about it.
 
I don't have a good way to copy and paste right now, but skyvector makes it look like the shape is different. Is it possible they changed it?
 
172andyou said:
I don't have a good way to copy and paste right now, but skyvector makes it look like the shape is different. Is it possible they changed it?
Click to expand...
Yea I just saw that too. Looks like it's slightly touching the east part of the river.
 
from the Notam

6/6456: due to a realignment of geographical restriction
6. All Hudson River VFR Corridor traffic must remain west of a line from 404750N/0735920W to 404524N/0740101W.

Sounds like someone found some common sense. Stay on the far west side and you can fly the VFR corridor.
 
Skyvector depicts it half way through the river width.
So is it only South Bound traffic allowed now? Or just narrowing the space available for both ways?
 
amster105 said:
Skyvector depicts it half way through the river width.
So is it only South Bound traffic allowed now? Or just narrowing the space available for both ways?
Click to expand...
I read it as permitting two way traffic but obviously with a narrower flyway.

It always has been a very eyes-out flyway. Problem is, most pilots are sightseeing, not watching for traffic. We are all vigilant pilots of course, but extra vigilance is required for this narrow, busy flyway. Be safe up there, guys... You too, Cajun!

:blueplane::blueplane::blueplane::heli:
 
That space is too narrow for real-world safe North / south traffic, IMHO. Too easy to technically bust. What practical means are there to navigate west of "of a line from 404750N/0735920W to 404524N/0740101W."

Sure, it will be on FF or Skyvector, and I bet some ace GPS-knob spinners will be able to draw that line of woe on the screen, (very safe to be flying in a VFR corridor and forced to continually look inside to see the line..) but what about the vast majority of VRF folks? Who statistically, have been VERY safe for the decades of that corridors existence. I believe there have been a grand total of ONE mid air (FW vs. Rotary a few years back) and I recall that was partially attributed to ATC distraction.

I've flown the corridor many, many times and moving the west RED boundary to the east Hudson shore would preserve the existing safety of the space and I believe, hardly compromise security for new POTUS's crib. That is where it was until Monday night, and has been for years. I suspect the alphabet advocacy crews will be on it shortly.
 
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Yeah... TFR's suck. Welcome to GA flying VFR.
Same thing was in place in Kennebunkport ME, Washington DC, Jackson Hole WY, or any other place the President or VP lived.
 
I'm wondering if Trump Tower will be off limits to the public soon? I visited a few years ago..nice place, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
I would think the resizing is a compromise after a SS ordered default VIP tfr.
The tfr is mandatory procedure. Then the FAA and AOPA come to realistic terms that there's a high likely hood that it will be popped probably weekly because it blocks one of the busiest general aviation corridors in this country.
So, either we rethink it some or patrol it all day and night. It is presidential.
I'm surprised it's not 30 miles though. He is president elect.
 
He isn't the Prez yet and that may be the reason of it's size. I've heard they wanted to make it a complete circle but some alphabet org got into the action and talked them into this. I feel they should make the western edge even with the Hudson but they didn't ask me...:rolleyes:
 
The New York pilots had better hope he doesn't come home to often after he is sworn in because it will become 30 miles up to 18k when he is president.

Bob
 
It surely do suck.
All we can do is hope they pull the line back to the east shore of the river.
And write your congressman.
BTW: Where is AOPA? Where are all our paid advocates?
Why isn't there any noise about this in the media?
Maybe if we all get together and whine and cry and riot and refuse to go back to class, we can get it changed.
Sorry, I'm feeling anxious. I have to go to my safe space and get rid of all the negative energy.
 
He has a golf course near me... hopefully he doesn't come in to check in on it as president as much as he did while not president... otherwise those TFRs are going to suck.
 
There's an even newer revision: http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_7401.html

NORTHBOUND HUDSON RIVER EXCLUSION ZONE TRAFFIC ARE AUTHORIZED TO TRANSIT THE TFR PROVIDED THE AIRCRAFT IS SQUAWKING AN ATC DISCRETE CODE AT ALL TIMES AND THE PILOT REMAINS IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATION WITH LGA TOWER, IF UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROVISION, NORTHBOUND TRAFFIC MUST REMAIN WEST OF A LINE FROM 404750N/0735920W TO 404524N/0740101W.
Click to expand...

This permits northbound traffic to transit the TFR, if in contact with ATC and squawking discrete. No need to remain west of the TFR edge. Must have been as a result of pressure from tour operators, as the corridor would have been much too narrow otherwise.

The SFRA/exclusion is still screwed. Very strange that they say "HUDSON RIVER EXCLUSION ZONE", as one can't comply with the rules of the SFRA (exclusion zone) if one's talking to ATC instead of self-announcing. That basically means you need to be in the Class B to transit northbound.
 
I'm sure KLGA tower will love talking to all the tour choppers there...
 
mtuomi said:
I'm sure KLGA tower will love talking to all the tour choppers there...
Click to expand...

They already talk to them all. This just means that they'll also have to deal with anyone else that's transiting the area northbound. It'll get busy on freq.

My guess is that the air tour lobby (ERHC) pushed the FAA for a compromise, as the original TFR killed tours, and then the first modification (cutout) would have been a recipe for a head-on.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Obama has nothing to do with it. Read more, get up to speed.
Click to expand...
I think it was a tongue-in-cheek joke aimed at inbred rednecks who blame the current president for all the wrongdoings in the world, including global warming, which (according to their beliefs) does not exist anyway. :D

Back on topic: even the newest depiction seems to be partially blocking the corridor. Or am I still seeing the 2nd revision?
 
BigBadLou said:
Back on topic: even the newest depiction seems to be partially blocking the corridor. Or am I still seeing the 2nd revision?
Click to expand...

The newest revision (the one I linked to) retains the same shape with the cutout for the west side of the Hudson River, but has the language I quoted above, where northbound traffic may transit inside the TFR if in contact with ATC and squawking discrete. Southbound traffic will use the west side of the Hudson, outside of the cutout. It's the language that counts, in addition to the graphic of the TFR.
 
^^^ yep.

I wonder if we're going to see a "T"FR over Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach too.
 
Has anyone actually tried to fly the Hudson since the TFR went into effect? I was going to take a friend down there this weekend, but it doesn't look very safe to me even if they would still let you try to squeeze through.
 
labbadabba said:
^^^ yep.

I wonder if we're going to see a "T"FR over Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach too.
Click to expand...

I think the TFR is in place because that is the president elect's primary residence. Until January.

If he's at Mar-a-Lago, then a TFR will go up there. But both of these are likely to remain *TEMPORARY* flight restrictions if he's in town so long as he's living in the White House.
 
eshazen said:
Has anyone actually tried to fly the Hudson since the TFR went into effect? I was going to take a friend down there this weekend, but it doesn't look very safe to me even if they would still let you try to squeeze through.
Click to expand...

The whole point of this revision is that you don't have to squeeze through. Northbound, follow the east side of the river and contact LGA for transition. Southbound, go in SFRA self-announcing, or stay high in Class B with LGA, and follow the west side of the river.
 
So it looks like there is no longer ANY East River exclusion...
 
orange said:
So it looks like there is no longer ANY East River exclusion...
Click to expand...
Not unless you're flying a float plane or a whirlybird and going to heliport/seaplane base. At least, until the inauguration. Not many people flew fixed wings up the East River, though.
 
Mike I said:
Not unless you're flying a float plane or a whirlybird and going to heliport/seaplane base. At least, until the inauguration. Not many people flew fixed wings up the East River, though.
Click to expand...

Not since Cory Lidle.
 
Mike I said:
The newest revision (the one I linked to) retains the same shape with the cutout for the west side of the Hudson River, but has the language I quoted above, where northbound traffic may transit inside the TFR if in contact with ATC and squawking discrete. Southbound traffic will use the west side of the Hudson, outside of the cutout. It's the language that counts, in addition to the graphic of the TFR.
Click to expand...
Looks like they got rid of that. It's back to covering the east side of the river and no longer includes language saying you can transit northbound with a code.
 
orange said:
So it looks like there is no longer ANY East River exclusion...
Click to expand...

Yeah, they made the whole thing smaller and it now looks pretty useable (at least to this guy who hasn't ever flow that corridor).
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, they made the whole thing smaller and it now looks pretty useable (at least to this guy who hasn't ever flow that corridor).
Click to expand...
It still goes out over the river a bit but yes it is smaller than before.
 
Just got that notice too.

Looks to be pretty much back the way it was except now Northbound you will be verrrrryyyyy close to a VIP TFR.

Much safer and workable for all parties than the previous iterations. Security, little if no increased workload for NY area ATC, little or no impediment to Hudson fliers.

First impression is - Sanity prevailed! Color me pleasantly shocked.

Will possibly fly it this weekend (with lots of talking to NY approach 1st)
 
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