New Partnership Questions? (finding or creating)

Dave-C

Filing Flight Plan
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May 18, 2019
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Dave
Regarding a 50/50 partnership in something like a nice Arrow or Mooney, for personal use (not business or training) for each to fly 60-100 hours a year and hangared in the San Diego area, generally speaking, is it easier to:

1. Buy a plane, find a partner*
2. Find a partner, find and buy the plane together
3. Find a plane owner who is looking for a partner**

* in the case of #1, how hard is it to find an AP Pilot who wants to be a partner? Either or both of us could then do work.
**I haven't see as much in the way of "partner wanted" as I expected in the classifieds but maybe I'm not looking in the right places?
 
I did #1, except my "partner" is not equity. I get priority on the plane but he helps cover costs and has access to it and helps keep the engine going. Depending on your finances, #1 is easiest because you get a plane no matter what. If you can't handle a plane on your own, then #3 is probably easier.
 
First form an LLC, so when you buy the plane it is registered and listed by the FAA under the LLC. The registration process can drag on, you do not want to do it twice. The LLC provides partners some liability protection. It also makes selling shares easy and the FAA does not need to get involved again.


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I did #1, after trying #2 and #3 without any success. There is a flying club here, but they wouldn't even consider an LSA when that became a requirement for me (and half a dozen others who left the club). So, I bought the plane and just put the word out that I would consider a co-owner. When one came along, we formed an LLC to make ownership easier to manage. We're 2-1/2 years in now, and thinking about adding a third.
 
My recommendation, if you want/need an airplane then buy an airplane. If you can afford that. It is probably a lot easier to find a partner after you have an airplane and are part of your local flying community than before. Though I met my partner both flying rented LSA.
 
#1 is certainly quick and easy to get a plane if you have the money to do it.

I'm leaning towards #2. The partners all feel they had a say in the selection and price range; I'm thinking a total of 2 or 3 partners. Helps with whether we get a $250k plane with two or a $375k plane with three. Or maybe I can only find partners that can swing three on a $200k plane. It would be a bummer to buy a $375k plane and not be able to find partners that can buy a share.

Option #3 would be the fastest if a good option exists where you live. San Diego should be big enough to have some options.
 
If your finances can handle it, #1 is going to be the easiest option. You'll be able to choose the plane you want and set the terms of the partnership agreement. As @NealRomeoGolf has done in post #2, you can even make them non-equity partners or sell less than half the plane leaving you the majority owner, priority and ultimate decision maker (i.e. you decide you want to upgrade to glass and your partner doesnt want the expense, you can still decide to move forward with it by issuing more "shares," buying those shares out of your pocket and diluting their ownership). Option #1 is riskier if you cant handle the finances of owning the plane as the partner(s) can walk away and enforcing the legal agreement takes time and money that may not be worth it in the end. Finding your first partner or a replacement partner may also take some time so you'll need to support the plane yourself.

Option #3 is going to be the second easiest option and easiest option if your finances wont support the plane ownership outright. It's a bit of a trade-off, do to the limited partnerships out there, you're not going to get the plane you want but since you dont have to buy into the partnership, you're not going to end up in something your unhappy with either. You'll also have less authority over the plane and decisions made.

Option #2 is going to be the most difficult option. You need to first form the partnership and agree on a price then you have competing interests/missions in choosing the plane and equipment it has and even if you agree on the type of plane, you can get arguments over things like appearance (worn paint or ugly scheme, ugly but good condition interiors, etc) or stupid things like the N-number. Once you have the plane, the option runs just like any existing partnership but as where options #1 and #3 might have arguments down the road about upgrades, option #2 is opening up the door right out the gate for arguments between the partners. Its also the option that is most likely to end up with a plane that you are least happy with.

Partnerships are difficult but they can be valuable. The non-equity partner idea is a good idea but you'll have to be choosy with your partner in that situation. Without any skin in the game, the "partner" can treat the plane like a rental and beat the crap out of it with very little liability.

Considering you're looking at possibly an arrow, I would suggest you really look at how many hours you're going to put on the plane each year (60-100 hours is a big range and a big difference) and possibly look into PlusOne Flyers or Pacific Cost Flyers. Both are flight clubs in the San Diego area and you may find that at the 60 hours a year, your fixed cost of owning the plane even split 50/50 are going to be more than renting.

Quick Math:
Running Costs:
$20/hr Engine Time
$50/hr Fuel & Oil

$70/hr


Plane (60,000) + Interest = $600
Tie Down Fees = $500
Annual = $1200
Repairs = $1000
Insurance = $1500

Total per year = 4800
Total per partner = 2400 in fixed costs

This is just a rough estimate with only a small budget for any additional maintenance costs but if you do 100 hours, then your total operating costs are going to be $94 per hour. If you do 60 hours then your total operating costs are going to be $110 per hour. At some point you start getting awfully close to the rates the clubs charge and the clubs not only have 100 hours inspections and are a no-fuss operation (you dont have to worry about care or maintenance) but they also have other planes available should your mission/needs change for a given flight.
 
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I did #1, except my "partner" is not equity. I get priority on the plane but he helps cover costs and has access to it and helps keep the engine going. Depending on your finances, #1 is easiest because you get a plane no matter what. If you can't handle a plane on your own, then #3 is probably easier.

All excellent responses, thanks!

I didn't even think of the non-equity arrangement and I once had this with a sailboat that worked out quite well (I was the non-equity).
 
Considering you're looking at possibly an arrow, I would suggest you really look at how many hours you're going to put on the plane each year (60-100 hours is a big range and a big difference) and possibly look into PlusOne Flyers or Pacific Cost Flyers. Both are flight clubs in the San Diego area and you may find that at the 60 hours a year, your fixed cost of owning the plane even split 50/50 are going to be more than renting.

Quick Math:
Running Costs:
$20/hr Engine Time
$50/hr Fuel & Oil
$70/hr
Plane (60,000) + Interest = $600
Tie Down Fees = $500
Annual = $1200
Repairs = $1000
Insurance = $1500

Total per year = 4800
Total per partner = 2400 in fixed costs

This is just a rough estimate with only a small budget for any additional maintenance costs but if you do 100 hours, then your total operating costs are going to be $94 per hour. If you do 60 hours then your total operating costs are going to be $110 per hour. At some point you start getting awfully close to the rates the clubs charge and the clubs not only have 100 hours inspections and are a no-fuss operation (you dont have to worry about care or maintenance) but they also have other planes available should your mission/needs change for a given flight.

Your math is pretty close to mine. I use $30/hr engine time assuming mid-time on the engine at purchase. I budget closer to $100k for the purchase to include tax/title and this includes $10k for the unknown out the gate (radio, gear, etc) so, from what I've seen advertised, this would be a top 20% Arrow. This leads me to your mentioning of the clubs. I was a member of both a couple decades ago, and looking to join Plus One soon to get back current and start IFR. I want to eliminate the club problems: scheduling, lay-overs, squawks, cosmetics, etc and go for the pride of ownership, no schedule hassle route. We'd like to do 7-10 day trips and not worry about minimums, etc. I really wouldn't expect to save money by purchasing, but would get more enjoyment per flight. Also, I'm sure flying just one plane that I own will be safer from the point of familiarity (at least). The club planes are laid out different, sound different, high/low wing, etc, etc.
 
#1 is certainly quick and easy to get a plane if you have the money to do it.

I'm leaning towards #2. The partners all feel they had a say in the selection and price range; I'm thinking a total of 2 or 3 partners. Helps with whether we get a $250k plane with two or a $375k plane with three. Or maybe I can only find partners that can swing three on a $200k plane. It would be a bummer to buy a $375k plane and not be able to find partners that can buy a share.

Option #3 would be the fastest if a good option exists where you live. San Diego should be big enough to have some options.
Yes, my thinking exactly, except change the purchase amount to ~$100k. There are planes I've tried to justify up to $150k, but I want to keep the running costs low but still have a complex airplane. I figure a little under $100k for a nice Arrow and a little over $100k for a nice Mooney.
 
I did #1, after trying #2 and #3 without any success. There is a flying club here, but they wouldn't even consider an LSA when that became a requirement for me (and half a dozen others who left the club). So, I bought the plane and just put the word out that I would consider a co-owner. When one came along, we formed an LLC to make ownership easier to manage. We're 2-1/2 years in now, and thinking about adding a third.
Dale - I love those LSA's. Never flown in one, but I expect to, and may like them too much as they are a relative bargain. The only problems (hoping the LSA rules change some day) are the flying at night and IFR. While many don't recommend flying an SEL at night, I love a clear, full moon local flight and I don't want to miss out on it. Hmmm, maybe an Arrow AND a Sportcruiser with 4 partners.
 
4. Join PlusOne Flyers? :) I'd have a real hard time competing with them if I was in San Diego.
 
4. Join PlusOne Flyers? :) I'd have a real hard time competing with them if I was in San Diego.
Oh yes. I expect to join PlusOne shortly. I was a member 20 years ago. Ownership to me means; "the weather looks good from here to Austin, let's head over that way for a couple weeks". Hard for any club to compete on this, might take me a couple years though.
 
Dale - I love those LSA's. Never flown in one, but I expect to, and may like them too much as they are a relative bargain. The only problems (hoping the LSA rules change some day) are the flying at night and IFR. While many don't recommend flying an SEL at night, I love a clear, full moon local flight and I don't want to miss out on it. Hmmm, maybe an Arrow AND a Sportcruiser with 4 partners.
If you’re not flying under SP privileges, there’s no reason an LSA equipped with lights as many are can’t be flown at night. I have lights on mine just to get an extra hour per day of legal flying time. Could be flown at night if I had a medical though.
 
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