New panel underway, GTN-750, G5s, GTX-345

arnoha

arnoha

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arnoha
Well, it's happening. I've talked about it a bit here, but now it's real and real money is already out the door.

KLN 94, KMD 550, KT 76C, KX 155A, CDI, AI, DG, and two vacuum pumps coming out.

GTN-750, GTX-345, G5 AI, G5 HSI, USB 6A going in.

Let's see how it turns out! PCA is doing the work in Oregon. Wish me luck.

N194SP 001.JPG N194SP 002.JPG
 
That panel looks too clean for an upgrade, Mr. Moneybags...

Looking forward to after pics.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
That panel looks too clean for an upgrade, Mr. Moneybags...

Looking forward to after pics.
Click to expand...

I know, I know. Two things pushed for the big upgrade.

The first one is obvious: ADS-B Out mandate. I'm in SF Bay Area. There just is no choice here...you must equip if you intend to fly. Add to that that COM2 KX155A has a failing EL display and the KMD 550 has a self-test error, and it suddenly makes sense to drop some money on new vs. swapping out old for more old. COM1 KX155A got an LED faceplate a bit ago and it has a glideslope, so I'm keeping it and swapping it to COM2. Realize also, I'm keeping my audio panel (KMA 26) and autopilot (KAP 140). They're just out to make room for the work. The GTN/GTX combo is the standard choice and that's what I went with. That I blew the extra on the GTN-750 vs. 650 was a splurge. I really like the bigger screen; it's much more functional in exchange for some real extra dollars. I got used to big KMD 550 screen.

The second is the vacuum system. That's why the G5's. The plane is a leaseback, so it racks up hours far faster than your personal planes. (This is also something that pushed me to Garmin. Renters understand Garmin; it will attract them instead of scaring them away.) That meant that I was constantly repairing something in the vacuum system. The 172 R and S have a backup vacuum pump, so there were two vacuum pumps and two vacuum instruments, along with all the plumbing and check valves. Every few hundred hours I was blowing a grand or two overhauling or replacing something. The G5's should actually pay for themselves while I still own the plane.

NealRomeoGolf said:
What are you doing with the KLN94?
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Current plan is to sell it back to my flying club. Same for the KX155A and KT76C. It's a fully functioning ORS3 model. Why do you ask?
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
That panel looks too clean for an upgrade, Mr. Moneybags...

Looking forward to after pics.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, and for reference, it's real money. You're very right about that. 35 AMU. I've written a deposit check and a start work check. Got one more big one to write. Not looking forward to that part. At least, being a leaseback and a business, it's somewhat pre-tax. (Kind of. Leasebacks are almost always considered "passive", which means you can't take a loss. You can wipe out your revenue with expenses, but not take a loss. This is definitely a year I'm feeding the plane from my personal checkbook.)
 
arnoha said:
Current plan is to sell it back to my flying club. Same for the KX155A and KT76C. It's a fully functioning ORS3 model. Why do you ask?
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I am not keeping my plane long enough to put a GTN in it but always considered something cheaper to tide me over. I only have an ADF now. No GPS at all.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I am not keeping my plane long enough to put a GTN in it but always considered something cheaper to tide me over. I only have an ADF now. No GPS at all.
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Not even a VOR? The KLN 94, remember, is a GPS only. No NAV, no COM. Used, a KLN 94 runs around $2000, but a fresh install will push that cost up substantially, as you'll need to ensure that you get the tray and the antenna, too. Also, no WAAS. You can make it VFR only at that point, but an IFR setup would add a bunch, too, as you'll need an indicator and have to add the VOR as backup (with its own indicator). A GNC-420 is only $2000 more and you get a much more functional box along with another radio. (I'm guessing with only an ADF, you also only have one radio, but that may be a bad assumption.)

I do need to sell the thing, but I have to be honest: it's best for existing KLN 94 installations where the screen goes bad (the most common failure). I actually have an ORS2 model on my shelf with a bad screen that I yanked from my plane when I bought it to put the current KLN 94 in. That, of course, is cheap...don't even need a shop, since it's tray-mounted.
 
Capabilities I will have with the new setup I didn't have before:
  • LPV Approaches
  • GPSS
  • ADS-B Out
  • ADS-B Traffic
  • ADS-B Weather
  • USB power ports
  • Visual reporting points (KLN database card is too small to have those. Such a minor thing, it seems, but damn if it isn't convenient.)
  • Approach charts
Probably more than that. Should be good.
 
I can't believe they used that yellow crap insulation in restart models. That black CAT ducting corrodes to hell where it rubs aluminum structures when it get wet too. Some things never change.
 
bnt83 said:
I can't believe they used that yellow crap insulation in restart models.
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It's just fiberglass batts, right? Come on, it's Cessna...whatever is cheap, but that they can sell for 100X markup.

Now, what I'd like to know is who came up with the wiring color scheme for planes. It's very, very consistent: every damn wire is plain white. I've got to be missing something as to why. That just seems dumb.
 
arnoha said:
It's just fiberglass batts, right? Come on, it's Cessna...whatever is cheap, but that they can sell for 100X markup.

Now, what I'd like to know is who came up with the wiring color scheme for planes. It's very, very consistent: every damn wire is plain white. I've got to be missing something as to why. That just seems dumb.
Click to expand...

Because every wire runs through a marking machine anyway. For example, one file at work shows they marked 6,400 feet of wire, making 443 different wires. That's a fraction of the wires used on the project.
 
bnt83 said:
Because every wire runs through a marking machine anyway. For example, one file at work shows they marked 6,400 feet of wire, making 443 different wires. That's a fraction of the wires used on the project.
Click to expand...
You're telling me each of those wires has a textual marking on it? I've never seen one...is this only for jets and like? Seems like every wire in my plane is unmarked. Maybe I just haven't seen it.
 
arnoha said:
You're telling me each of those wires has a textual marking on it? I've never seen one...is this only for jets and like? Seems like every wire in my plane is unmarked. Maybe I just haven't seen it.
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Cessna marked them. Aftermarket installers probably didn't.

The text is very small but its there, even on 24 gauge wires I put in my Dad's airplane got marked. Magnifying glass is required to reliably read them
 
bnt83 said:
Cessna marked them. Aftermarket installers probably didn't.

The text is very small but its there, even on 24 gauge wires I put in my Dad's airplane got marked. Magnifying glass is required to reliably read them
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Huh. OK. Thanks for the info. I'll have to ask and see if they will mark them. What does a marking machine cost?
 
arnoha said:
Huh. OK. Thanks for the info. I'll have to ask and see if they will mark them. What does a marking machine cost?
Click to expand...

Never priced one, if I had to guess the one I use is probably over $10K, laser marks wire and cuts to specified length. Just upload an excel file, load correct wire type (on a spool) and it spits out marked wires.
 
bnt83 said:
Never priced one, if I had to guess the one I use is probably over $10K, laser marks wire and cuts to specified length. Just upload an excel file, load correct wire type (on a spool) and it spits out marked wires.
Click to expand...

Just got a response back...they're going to end mark them, but not machine mark them. Also, they claim the use of standard colored wires in the redo. I've never seen colored wires in a plane, but I'm a noob.
 
I wish they were only $10k. Try four times that for a basic one. They are a lot cleaner than using heat shrink tubes, but I can get a ton of markable heat shrink for what a wire marker costs.
 
arnoha said:
Not even a VOR? The KLN 94, remember, is a GPS only. No NAV, no COM. Used, a KLN 94 runs around $2000, but a fresh install will push that cost up substantially, as you'll need to ensure that you get the tray and the antenna, too. Also, no WAAS. You can make it VFR only at that point, but an IFR setup would add a bunch, too, as you'll need an indicator and have to add the VOR as backup (with its own indicator). A GNC-420 is only $2000 more and you get a much more functional box along with another radio. (I'm guessing with only an ADF, you also only have one radio, but that may be a bad assumption.)

I do need to sell the thing, but I have to be honest: it's best for existing KLN 94 installations where the screen goes bad (the most common failure). I actually have an ORS2 model on my shelf with a bad screen that I yanked from my plane when I bought it to put the current KLN 94 in. That, of course, is cheap...don't even need a shop, since it's tray-mounted.
Click to expand...
I have dual VORs. I should have said that. Dual radios too. Maybe I just leave the GPS out and let the next owner deal with it. My plane is admittedly an oddly equipped bird (PA28-181). Dual VORs, an ADF, engine monitor, ads-b in and out, and one G5 but no GPS.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I have dual VORs. I should have said that. Dual radios too. Maybe I just leave the GPS out and let the next owner deal with it. My plane is admittedly an oddly equipped bird (PA28-181). Dual VORs, an ADF, engine monitor, ads-b in and out, and one G5 but no GPS.
Click to expand...

And, I assume, no autopilot? Which G5 did you go with AI or HSI? If HSI, that could reduce cost since you won't need a new indicator.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I have a Century 21 autopilot. I have the G5 as an AI.
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Wow, me and the super bad assumptions. So, yeah, that is a weird bird.

Century 21 is on the list of autopilots the G5 HSI can drive, though you have the AI. I don't think you can get GPSS with anything other than a GTN or GNS, though.

Let me know how serious you are. Since I've already promised it to the club, they get first shot at it, but you never know.
 
More pictures...work has been done, but little yet to see. That's the G5 magnetometer in the tail. Thought it would go in the wing, but apparently the tail works better on the 172S.
N194SP 001 2.JPG N194SP 002 2.JPG N194SP 003 2.JPG N194SP 004.JPG
 
arnoha said:
Well, it's happening. I've talked about it a bit here, but now it's real and real money is already out the door.

KLN 94, KMD 550, KT 76C, KX 155A, CDI, AI, DG, and two vacuum pumps coming out.

GTN-750, GTX-345, G5 AI, G5 HSI, USB 6A going in.

Let's see how it turns out! PCA is doing the work in Oregon. Wish me luck.

View attachment 65667 View attachment 65668
Click to expand...


Me too

IMG_5511.JPG
 
Like your choice of the upgrades.
 
It's getting close. My plane is supposed to be ready a week from tomorrow! I'm flying it home on the 16th.
 
I wondered how they'd handle the re-do of the breakers. There's a completely new avionics breaker panel in the lower left. New, pullable breakers. Nice.

Also, discovered that my altimeter can't be adjusted into compliance with an IFR spec. :( To keep schedule, a new one off the shelf is going in instead of getting it overhauled. There was another AMU I didn't expect. I get to take home the core, though.

They are going to wire the fuel gauge into the dimmer circuit while they're in there. PCA did not install that...there was another thread on that drama. But they'll make it more usable.

And I fixed my post, @NealRomeoGolf ...

Thanks. I'm seriously excited to fly behind this panel.
 
I'd expect:
  • New compass correction card
  • Equipment List Revision
  • W&B Revision
    • May be a combination form W&B and Equipment List Revision
  • Supplemental Wiring Diagrams
  • Make sure they document what was removed as well as installed
  • Make sure they actually sign the damn return to service paperwork. Two different shops screwed the pooch on a friends airplane this year.
  • 337, including the LOAs, FAA STC certificates and MDL for each STC used. All FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplements and Instructions for Continued Airworthiness revision levels matching the applicable STC MDL.
  • All FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplements completed, printed two-sided and half-sheet size in COLOR for airplane binder. Some of these actually require additional documents to be on the aircraft, such as GTN cockpit reference guide.
  • Log entry for all that including compass swing, 91.171,91.411, 91.413 inspections
  • ET AL
 
Last edited:
bnt83 said:
I'd expect:
  • New compass correction card
  • Equipment List Revision
  • W&B Revision
    • May be a combination form W&B and Equipment List Revision
  • Supplemental Wiring Diagrams
  • Make sure they document what was removed as well as installed
  • Make sure they actually sign the damn return to service paperwork. Two different shops screwed the pooch on a friends airplane this year.
  • 337, including the LOAs, FAA STC certificates and MDL for each STC used. All FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplements and Instructions for Continued Airworthiness revision levels matching the applicable STC MDL.
  • All FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplements completed, printed two-sided and half-sheet size in COLOR for airplane binder. Some of these actually require additional documents to be on the aircraft, such as GTN cockpit reference guide.
  • Log entry for all that including compass swing, 91.171,91.411, 91.413 inspections
  • ET AL
Click to expand...

Wow! Thank you! I'll use that as a checklist when I take delivery! That list was unexpected and highly appreciated.

bnt83 said:
All it needs is a CGR-30P now
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I've been thinking about it. I need my bank account to recover a bit. And by a bit, I mean a lot.
 
My dad order a CGR-30P, says there is about a month lead time to get them.
 
bnt83 said:
My dad order a CGR-30P, says there is about a month lead time to get them.
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Is it down to a month? Both EI and JPI were at six weeks last I checked, which was a while ago. My understanding is that when the queue gets smaller is when both companies launch those rebate offers, which clogs up the queue again. It's their way of controlling the pipeline and keeping the correct level of busy through the year. Or so says my local avionics shop. One thing's for certain, the presence of the rebates seems to mean two extra weeks of wait.
 
arnoha said:
Is it down to a month? Both EI and JPI were at six weeks last I checked, which was a while ago. My understanding is that when the queue gets smaller is when both companies launch those rebate offers, which clogs up the queue again. It's their way of controlling the pipeline and keeping the correct level of busy through the year. Or so says my local avionics shop. One thing's for certain, the presence of the rebates seems to mean two extra weeks of wait.
Click to expand...

I've never installed a CGR but can't see any traps. There is some strategizing to get exactly what you want on the home page depending on the complexity of the airplane but the 172SP should be straight forward. Dad has a 182 and to get the home page the way he wants it we will not have a fuel quantity system it the CGR-30P, which if it did, a couple parameters he want's on the home page would be pushed to a different one.

So when ready we'll probably end up with Aerospace Logic fuel gauge and Cies fuel quantity transmitters.
 
bnt83 said:
I've never installed a CGR but can't see any traps. There is some strategizing to get exactly what you want on the home page depending on the complexity of the airplane but the 172SP should be straight forward. Dad has a 182 and to get the home page the way he wants it we will not have a fuel quantity system it the CGR-30P, which if it did, a couple parameters he want's on the home page would be pushed to a different one.

So when ready we'll probably end up with Aerospace Logic fuel gauge and Cies fuel quantity transmitters.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had wanted the CGR as a fancy fuel gauge at first, with some bonus round dials ditched and extra logging. The lead time killed that plan when the fuel gauge unexpectedly died on me. I needed something NOW. Having done it this way, I realize that is the better option anyway, since it frees up two primary instruments on the CGR. Expensive, but it worked out.

And I love the CiES senders. They rock. The Aerospace Logic gauge is fine. Does what it says on the can and really nothing more. (There a fuel consumption graph mode, but it's a bit hokey and honestly not that useful. With the precision of the CiES senders, it's best for seeing a record of climbs, descents, and turbulence...) PCA is wiring it into the dimmer circuit so that I don't have to play games with the buttons to get it to dim at night. For reference, they indicated that it could not wire into the Day/Night/Test switch like I originally wanted, so it'll go on the dimmer circuit. I'll let you know how that works out.

I'm also a little curious how much useful load I'll gain. I guess I could have done the math ahead of time, but I'm lazy. Also considering getting an actual weighing instead of just a mathematical recomputation. There have been so many changes, the tolerances are sure to have stacked up a fair amount. I think I was quoted around $300 to get a true W&B on scales. Wondering if it's worth it.
 
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