New member, career change, Coast Flight Academy

[FLYGUYRY]

First off, I'm brand new here but have been a lurker for quite some time. It's nice to be "formally" a part of the community.

This might be sort of long so I apologize but trying to get the best advice possible and in order to do that I think I need to briefly describe my background.

I am a 32 year old single guy, no gf, no wife, no ex wife, no kids. I served in the Air Force for six years as a linguist, and have been a government contractor in DC for the last 4. I have my bachelors degree already (and more than one associates). At any rate, I have wanted to be a pilot since I was a kid. Before I joined the military I had planned on completing University of Cincinnati's flight program with Sportys, but the timing was just not very good. I graduated high school in 2002 and as we are all aware, 2002 was a bad time for the airline industry. I didn't qualify for the massive loan at the time and my parents didn't want to co-sign because of the state of the industry. I decided to join the military and planned on using my GI bill to help pay. Originally I had only planned on doing 4 years and was going to be an air traffic controller, but as fate would have it I scored well enough on a bunch of tests and decided to be a linguist instead.

I always carried the dream with me but it sort of went on the backburner, and the job opportunities available to me with the experience I had (combined with the very nice salary) kept me in this field for about 10 years now. I have recently hit a point though where this is no longer what I want to do. The salary is amazing, I'm very grateful to say I was able to hit 6 figures by the time I was 30, but the money just isn't making me happy anymore.

Recently, I've been flying a lot and it really rekindled the flame and desire to fly. After speaking with a few pilots and doing massive amounts of research, I have found that this dream seems to be possible given the current state of the industry. Originally I had planned on going with ATP, but after more and more research I came across Coast Flight Academy. I decided to fly out and check them out, take the test and interview, and was accepted into the program. For me it seems like a much better route to go because even though its longer than ATP, I have EXACTLY the amount of GI Bill months remaining to cover the ENTIRE cost of the program.

I guess what I'm asking is, am I crazy to be doing this? I'm about 6 months out from when I would start (August 2016) and I'm not going to lie I'm slightly terrified, and excited at the same time. I know that flying is a career that I will love (though I'm under no delusions that it's going to be an easy or always enjoyable road), and surprisingly everyone has been super supportive. I thought for sure friends and family would say I'm crazy to give up a career making the kind of money I'm making to be a pilot, but everyone seems to think I'm doing the right thing. I'm terrified about what kind of job I can do to support myself through school, San Diego certainly isn't cheap, but given that my program will be paid for do you all think that's the best route for me to go? Not having student loans will be HUGE when I'm making a measly 27k a year at a regional.

Sorry if this is long, I've been cooped up in the house for 3 days because of the recent winter storm and just felt the need to post on here to get some thoughts. I truly appreciate any advice/encouragement etc from you all.

Thanks for reading!

Ryan

 

[Brad Z]

Welcome to the board. I don't know anything about the school you selected, but have you considered staying local to the DC area, keep your day job, and fly in the evening at one of the 141 schools here? You're still a long ways out from getting on with a regional, so you could get your training done starting now and you could have your commercial ticket by August and still have your full-time job in the meantime.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Thanks for your reply! I have considered that, however the costs would all be out of pocket for me as the GI bill won't pay for flight training unless it's attached to a degree program (like Coast Flight is). While I make a decent amount, I'm still basically middle class in this area as I'm sure you know, and I doubt I could afford to pay for everything on my own dime.

For anyone not familiar with the program here is the website

http://iflycoast.com/airline-career-training-program/

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Hmm not sure why my post disappeared. At any rate, I have considered that route but if I did that I'd be paying completely out of pocket, which I certainly can't afford since the GI Bill will only pay if the program is attached to a degree program as well.

Here is a link to the program in case anyone is wondering

http://iflycoast.com/airline-career-training-program/

 

[AggieMike88]

Welcome to the board. I don't know anything about the school you selected, but have you considered staying local to the DC area, keep your day job, and fly in the evening at one of the 141 schools here? You're still a long ways out from getting on with a regional, so you could get your training done starting now and you could have your commercial ticket by August and still have your full-time job in the meantime.

I agree with Brad; Either keep the existing job while training and gathering experience, and flying your first few years as a revenue pilot, or

Don't start anything until you have enough liquid cash in your your savings account to

1. Pay for all training, all supplies, and all exams
2. Pay additional flight time to get to a logged amount where regionals (or better) will talk to you
3. Allows you to avoid any debt, both consumer and educational.
4. Pay for a no-frills, rice and beans, no luxury item existance budget for at least two years. Maybe three. Easy way to compute this might be 1.5 to 2.0 times your existing annual take home pay.

What you desire to do will be taking you from a career that is financially "safe and secure" to one that is "completely unknown and very risky". So to manage this risk, you need to have the financial resources to maintain some form of existence while your plan happens.

And you need to have the financial resources to manage things should your plan go completely tango uniform.

It's noble to have a dream and want to embark on a career you can be passionate about.

But it's foolish to do so without the appropriate LONG term (3-10 years) planning on how to pay for it, before and after. And more foolish to go into debt for something that may not pan out, or worse, you don't want to do it anymore.

 

[jordane93]

Welcome and good luck with your training!

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Thanks all. In response to AggieMike88.

So that's the thing, this program will be covered no student loans, plus I get $1125 a month living expenses (tax free) from the GI Bill. I certainly don't have a ton in savings but I feel like at the age I'm at I can't really afford to take the long route, which would be paying for a lesson here and there and trying to do it at a local school while still working full time. Perhaps I'm wrong with that assumption? What I worry about is the upswing in hiring coming to a halt if I do it that way by the time I'm ready to start, and as I stated earlier if I do go that route it's all going to be on my own dime, the GI bill won't pay for it that way.

 

[James331]

Go for it.


Personally I'd get my PPL in a glider, buy a small tailwheel plane like a C120/140, 8A, S108 etc and build up hours and do my IFR in that, than get your CPL, ME and CFI if you want, than keep or sell the tailwheel plane.

All of this would be using high time CFIs, who have real world experience (this eliminates schools like ATP anyway), easy to find with the initial glider stuff, little harder later on.

This will save you money, it will make you a WAY better pilot and your resume will stand out much more compared to the standard issue rudderless cookie cutter 172 puppy mill grad.

 

[Phoenix]

If you have to worry about hiring upswings and such it isn't really a viable thing for you. Keep the day job you could have all your ratings and a plane in a year, year and half tops. As long as you don't get a serious girlfriend. Usually plenty of work for friendly available part time CFI. It is only hard if you need to pay all your bills as a CFI.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

So everyone seems to be in agreement that it's better for me to stay put and pay for training out of my own pocket than get it completely paid for by the GI Bill? I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks that. To me it seems like it would make sense if I had to take out loans to pay for training, but when you factor in that it's covered I'm having a hard time understanding why I should pass and pay for it on my own. Perhaps I'm missing something??

Thanks for all the input!

 

[FLYGUYRY]

I suppose it would have helped if I posted a link to the program so people had a better idea of what I'm talking about, doh!

http://iflycoast.com/airline-career-training-program/

 

[AggieMike88]

Your concerns about the hiring thing is why I am suggesting a large financial reserve BEFORE you take the leap off of the Cliffs of Uncertainty.

You indicate that you may have both your "training for the rating" costs covered plus a stipend for living expenses. I concur that is a start. But for the DC region (edit: or San Diego now that I've seen the link you posted), how far is $1125 post tax gonna take you? Around Denton, TX, you might make it. But I've heard DC region is much higher cost of living.

Once the GI bill and it's living expenses stipend runs out (I think your first post hinted at a deadline), what then? You have your ratings, but maybe not enough experience to get the consideration of a 121 or 135 employer? For giggles, let's say you need 800 additional hours of mixed SEL and MEL time with a composite rate of $175/hr (again, just guessing at that) in order to get through the front door of a 121/135 carrier. That's $140,000 you need in order to get taken seriously by a future employer. Could be more. Could be a bit less if you're taking CFI jobs (but that's slow).

If you don't have this large amount in liquid savings now, how are you going to obtain it and stick with the objective of remaining debt free? (which I admire of you and want you to stick to that).

And then when you do get hired, is $30,000 pre-tax salary going to cover all of your budget needs for the first few years of flying employment? No? Then where is the difference going to come from?


I'm not denying your dream. My angle is to make sure you've run all the financial permutations many times, then sit with someone to review them. And make sure this person loves you enough to bust your bubble so that this decision is made with your brain and not your emotions.

The dream comes with a large price tag. That you don't have the money saved up for the entire long haul means you need to remain employed with as good of a job as possible (such a your existing 6-figure one) for the entire time until you pull chocks and go with the 121/135 carrier.

Finally, the alternative is to return to the military. Especially if you can work your way to a slot flying something big like C130's or other large mult-engine frequntly flying aircraft.


We want you to succeed. What we don't want is you to start this journey without appropriate forethought and planning just to tell us two or three years later your broke and can't afford to continue.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

So everyone seems to be in agreement that it's better for me to stay put and pay for training out of my own pocket than get it completely paid for by the GI Bill? I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks that. To me it seems like it would make sense if I had to take out loans to pay for training, but when you factor in that it's covered I'm having a hard time understanding why I should pass and pay for it on my own. Perhaps I'm missing something??

Thanks for all the input!

I may be mistaken, but if you fund your private pilot cert, the GI Bill will cover the rest of your ratings at any part 141 school... Could be wrong.

Thank you for your service.

 

[AggieMike88]

And do very thorough homework on the pilot mill you're likely to choose.

The landscape is littered with many failed schools who promised a career, took the student's money, got them started, and either didn't come through on the employment, or filed bankruptcy. On the latter, the students were often shut out with their money gone, and valuable training records in the shredder.

Anyone can post a flyer or web page saying they have direct connections to a 121 carrier. But I want to meet their graduates that did get hired and talk to them about the experience before the school gets ANY of my money.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Gotcha, that makes more sense.

Well this school is in San Diego (which is similar cost of living), I wish it was in DC because I would just be able to stay doing what I'm doing while going to school. I'm obviously going to have to find a job, but the 1125 should cover at least my rent in San Diego (or more if I go with a roommate). As far as GI Bill and timeline goes, the program is 21 months long and I have 21 months of eligibility, so it won't run out, and at the end of the program I'll have up through my CFI II. Upon completion you are offered a job as an instructor with Coast Flight or any of the schools in the Skywest pipeline, so (barring a major F up on my part) I would have a job as a CFI to get me to those 1500 hours.

When I say debt free I don't mean completely, perhaps the research I've done has led me astray but it seems to me that once I get my ratings (again all paid for, no debt), I need to flight instruct to hit 1500 hours. I'll have 275 at the completion of the program, and I did a conservative estimate for how long it should take me to hit 1500 and (in a place like San Diego where the weather is good most of the year) I figure that's about 2 years. I know I won't have a lot while flight instructing, but as long as I can pay the few bills I have (food, car, rent, etc) I don't really mind.

As for how I'll manage on 30k a year for the first year, well...I'm not entirely sure. I assume I'll have to take another part time job to cover down on some expenses, but the good thing (if all things remain constant) is that the salary isn't forever.

I'd love to go back in the military but I'm too old at this point, cutoff to be a pilot is 30 so that's not really an option anymore.

Now I'm starting to feel like this is going to be (nearly) impossible again, which sucks, but I appreciate the honesty. I suppose my age is really working against me here, I thought I had a pretty good plan figured out with this program, but now it seems that may not be the case.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

I may be mistaken, but if you fund your private pilot cert, the GI Bill will cover the rest of your ratings at any part 141 school... Could be wrong.

Thank you for your service.

It covers up to 10,000 a year, but that to me seems like it will be gone rather quickly with the cost of training. If i want to finish in 2 years it seems I'd still be out what...30,40k? I'm not sure that is realistic, I make good money, but not THAT good of money to be able to drop 10-20k on flight training for 2 years

Thank you!

 

[AggieMike88]

Am I sensing correctly that there is a bit of urgency to this decision because of the GI benefits? That if you don't start on/before a certain date, the eligibility period expires before the stated training time in San Diego completes?

 

[CCluck]

If you are making six figures and already have a PPL, just buy an IFR capable complex, HP plane ( Bonanza ) and fly the hell out of it till you get a thousand hours - IR and Commercial shouldn't be too tough, and adding an MEL ought to be fairly easy. Then you can go off to school, finish up with CFI and ATP, get a flying job and be too broke to fly for fun. But you'll be a pretty darn good pilot ....

 

[FLYGUYRY]

No there is no sense of urgency there. My GI bill is good for 10 years, I can start at Coast Flight every 3 months, BUT there is a slight sense of urgency in that

1. I am 32 years old, even in an accelerated all in program like this one or ATP (which is even more accelerated) I'm probably going to be 35, 36 when I get 1500 hours to even qualify for a job at the regionals. If i do it at a local school I'm probably pushing that back at least another 2 years, maybe more, and will likely be paying quite a bit out of pocket to boot

2. There has been a bill introduced in congress to cap benefits at 20k per year (currently it is unlimited as long as it is an accredited school and the VA has approved them). It will likely be 6 months before it passes, it could change and go up, but it could also stay at 20k (which means I'm essentially losing out on 40k). At any rate, once it passes I'll have 90 days to be grandfathered in, so there is some pressure there.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

If you are making six figures and already have a PPL, just buy an IFR capable complex, HP plane ( Bonanza ) and fly the hell out of it till you get a thousand hours - IR and Commercial shouldn't be too tough, and adding an MEL ought to be fairly easy. Then you can go off to school, finish up with CFI and ATP, get a flying job and be too broke to fly for fun. But you'll be a pretty darn good pilot ....

I wish I had my PPL, I currently don't have anything. I wish 6 figs was enough to do that here, but the reality is in DC I make enough to live comfortably, but certainly not rolling in the money enough to purchase my own plane and fly around on my own dime.

 

[simtech]

I'd love to go back in the military but I'm too old at this point, cutoff to be a pilot is 30 so that's not really an option anymore.

Guy in SUPT right now is 38. Came in with a waiver, however he was already an officer. So my point is, its not too late to try at least. You never know. Go talk with a guard unit, I bet you can figure something out and best off all...you get paid to learn to fly. WIN!!

 

[FLYGUYRY]

As an example of what I'm looking at, here is a local 141 school with the prices listed. To get the same ratings here, I'm looking at about $15000 less than the school in San Diego (of course the school in SD also includes an associates degree tied with it). In essence it looks like it will be about 50k at a school like this to get all my ratings. If I spread that over 2 years I can save about 20k (with 10k per year from GI bill), which still leaves my out of pocket expenses at 30k.

Again (rough math) that means spread out over 2 years I'm paying 1250/mo out of pocket. That is a huge chunk of change and I'll basically be living close to paycheck to paycheck doing that. I hope people aren't taking me as argumentative or anything, just trying to lay out my line of thinking and how I'm confused that is the better route to take. I'm not sure what the point of staying at my current job would be if I am unable to save anything because all my extra income is going to pay for flight training.

http://www.middleriveraviation.com/airplane-training.html

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Guy in SUPT right now is 38. Came in with a waiver, however he was already an officer. So my point is, its not too late to try at least. You never know. Go talk with a guard unit, I bet you can figure something out and best off all...you get paid to learn to fly. WIN!!

Really? That is interesting, I guess I'll give them a call and see it can't hurt. I've just been told by a couple people that I'm already too old

 

[AggieMike88]

In the linguistics field you're in, can you provide some more specifics as to what you do with it?

I know you say you're no longer enamoured with what you do. But I'm wondering if there might be a lateral move that not only reignites the passion, but opens up the door for more income.

 

[mscard88]

I used my GI Bill benefit for flight training after acquiring the PPC as VA didn't pay for that. I was in the Air Force (IOW full time employment) and got my additional ratings at various Aero Clubs and FBOs as I moved around. So I would keep that full time job. Does Andrews have an Aero Club? Usually their programs are Part 141 and VA approved. There may be other FBOs in your area with a VA approved 141 program. You do know you'll have to have a ton of hours (1500 now) to get on with a regional right? So you either have to flight instruct, fly charter, corporate etc to acquire those hours. Retirements are beginning to be significant at the airlines so the future for the next 10-15 years looks bright for airline hiring. But remember one thing, do it or you'll regret it years later. Good luck with your decision.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

I'm not really a linguist anymore, I'm an analyst at 3 letter agency in the Baltimore/DC area. As far as what I WAS doing as a linguist, well I went to Defense Language Institute for a year in the Air Force to learn Pashto. As far as what I did, can't say much other than produced translations. Now I analyze data and write reports.

 

[Mason]

Can you pass a 1st class medical? Don't spend a nickel till you know for sure.

 

[simtech]

Really? That is interesting, I guess I'll give them a call and see it can't hurt. I've just been told by a couple people that I'm already too old

Really!

I was shocked too when I heard that because Im 37 and thought hmmm. My problem is Im 37 and then would have to waiver for OTS then waiver for SUPT. So..for me it will never happen and Im not trying as I like my job maintaining the simulators, and I get to talk to a lot of the UPT students. But at your age it doesn't hurt to look into it.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Yup got my 1st class already, its a requirement for acceptance into the program at Coast Flight

 

[AggieMike88]

IF you could have your dream job using those talents, what would it be?


And have you considered reading this book? 48 Days to the Work you Love

In 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate approached ten percent. Today, when new work is found, it may not be traditional. Studies estimate half of the American workforce will soon consist of freelancers, consultants, independent contractors, entrepreneurs, "electronic immigrants," and so forth. Are you ready for the new normal?

Dan Miller has seen it coming for years. But his thriving vocational best seller, 48 Days to the Work You Love, is not so much about finding a new job as it is learning about who we are really called to be in relation to our vocation-whatever shape that career may take in these changing times. According to the author, failing to make that fundamental discovery of calling is why so many people find themselves in jobs they hate. But now, thousands upon thousands are finding the work they love, thanks to practical advice from this leading career counselor.

Conversational and creative, Miller helps the reader understand one's God given skills and abilities, personality traits, values, dreams, and passions. Doing so helps us recognize clear patterns that will point toward successful decisions along the career path. Step by step, this updated edition of 48 Days to the Work You Love reveals the process for creating a Life Plan and translating that plan into meaningful and fulfilling daily work. Let the countdown begin!

 

[Phoenix]

I know DC is expensive but with six figures and no wife/kids you should be able to do plenty of flying. Check your expenses, if you are going to be a pro pilot you are going to have live lean anyway. Might as well start now and spend the extra on flight. Dunno zip about the military but you aren't too old to be a civy pro. Go for it.

 

[mscard88]

Guy in SUPT right now is 38. Came in with a waiver, however he was already an officer. So my point is, its not too late to try at least. You never know. Go talk with a guard unit, I bet you can figure something out and best off all...you get paid to learn to fly. WIN!!

Air Guard units usually don't hire off the street pilot trainees. Usually have to be in the unit already doing another job, whether enlisted or commissioned. AF Reserves different though and usually a little easier. As far as already having a First Class medical it won't matter in the AF. You'll have to take a flight physical with the Flight Surgeon anyway. The age can be waivered but active duty it would be doubtful. Guard and Reserves better chance of it being waivered.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

IF you could have your dream job using those talents, what would it be?


And have you considered reading this book? 48 Days to the Work you Love

In 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate approached ten percent. Today, when new work is found, it may not be traditional. Studies estimate half of the American workforce will soon consist of freelancers, consultants, independent contractors, entrepreneurs, "electronic immigrants," and so forth. Are you ready for the new normal?

Dan Miller has seen it coming for years. But his thriving vocational best seller, 48 Days to the Work You Love, is not so much about finding a new job as it is learning about who we are really called to be in relation to our vocation-whatever shape that career may take in these changing times. According to the author, failing to make that fundamental discovery of calling is why so many people find themselves in jobs they hate. But now, thousands upon thousands are finding the work they love, thanks to practical advice from this leading career counselor.

Conversational and creative, Miller helps the reader understand one's God given skills and abilities, personality traits, values, dreams, and passions. Doing so helps us recognize clear patterns that will point toward successful decisions along the career path. Step by step, this updated edition of 48 Days to the Work You Love reveals the process for creating a Life Plan and translating that plan into meaningful and fulfilling daily work. Let the countdown begin!

Well, that's the thing, I don't really have a "dream job" with the exception of being a pilot. I used to want to work in the field I am now, but for many reasons, I just don't want to do it anymore. I'm sick of sitting behind a desk all day, job instability, bureaucracy of the place I work, to name a few. If I'm going to face those things I'd at least like to be facing them doing something I love, vs something that I don't get excited about.

I will take a look at that book, but I'm surprised someone on a pilot forum is trying to convince me not to be a pilot

 

[FLYGUYRY]

I know DC is expensive but with six figures and no wife/kids you should be able to do plenty of flying. Check your expenses, if you are going to be a pro pilot you are going to have live lean anyway. Might as well start now and spend the extra on flight. Dunno zip about the military but you aren't too old to be a civy pro. Go for it.

Yeah I mean I can for sure swing it, but I'm not really going to be able to save much. That's why I'm confused as to why that's the better route, I can stay here and keep my job (for as long as it lasts, gov contracting is very...well lets just say things change very frequently) and pay to fly, but I won't be able to save much at all. Or I can leave, get my training paid for, and get a part time job that doesn't pay much. In the end I still am essentially in the same place I think, just one route takes longer than the other.

 

[Everskyward]

Welcome to POA! Some of your earlier posts were in moderation because you are a new member and the posts included links. I have approved those posts but by now you have enough posts so that you can include links.

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Air Guard units usually don't hire off the street pilot trainees. Usually have to be in the unit already doing another job, whether enlisted or commissioned. AF Reserves different though and usually a little easier. As far as already having a First Class medical it won't matter in the AF. You'll have to take a flight physical with the Flight Surgeon anyway. The age can be waivered but active duty it would be doubtful. Guard and Reserves better chance of it being waivered.

Yeah, the idea of being Guard or Reserve pilot is great, but after my own personal experience with the Air Force (false promises etc) I'm hesitant to even try down that route. The recruiters I've talked to have had no interest in me going to OCS, they want me to take a job doing the same thing I did in the Air Force before because linguists are hard to find. Perhaps I just need to find a decent recruiter

 

[FLYGUYRY]

Welcome to POA! Some of your earlier posts were in moderation because you are a new member and the posts included links. I have approved those posts but by now you have enough posts so that you can include links.

Awesome thanks! I deleted a couple because they are basically duplicates now.

 

[Lachlan]

So everyone seems to be in agreement that it's better for me to stay put and pay for training out of my own pocket than get it completely paid for by the GI Bill? I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks that. To me it seems like it would make sense if I had to take out loans to pay for training, but when you factor in that it's covered I'm having a hard time understanding why I should pass and pay for it on my own. Perhaps I'm missing something??

First of all, we're all taxpayers. We want to save money. Listen to the advice people with industry knowledge are giving you. Or dont. Either way, learn to fly and be certain you love it before you give up everything the last third of your life has given you. Grass is always greener and all that...

 

[AggieMike88]

but I'm surprised someone on a pilot forum is trying to convince me not to be a pilot

Not my objective.

I've dealt with a few folks who chose to make a mid-life career change that involved a hefty "up front" financial and time commitment. All excited about the rose colored glasses potential and ready to dump the steady, more-than-took-care of budget + future savings income for something that was very uncertain. Then later, after dumping the old job, going in to lots of debt, decide the grass wasn't going to be greener, or no grass at all, or lost interest in pursuing the new grass. So all they got out of that was a very deep snake pit of debt, and a just barely more than minimum wage shovel to dig their way out with.

So I'm sensitive to folks who go pie-in-the-sky wanting new careers that have a high potential for causing great debt, low income, and might not be what they want for the long term once they get there.

 

[mscard88]

Yeah, the idea of being Guard or Reserve pilot is great, but after my own personal experience with the Air Force (false promises etc) I'm hesitant to even try down that route. The recruiters I've talked to have had no interest in me going to OCS, they want me to take a job doing the same thing I did in the Air Force before because linguists are hard to find. Perhaps I just need to find a decent recruiter

Have you talked with Guard/Reserve recruiters? Regular AF recruiters won't be of help because of what you mentioned. As I wrote, Guard hard to get a pilot slot while AF Reserve a bit easier. Of course there's a flight physical and a ton of tests to go thru. I spent 24 years at a regional so feel free to pm me w/ any questions.