New Low-Carb Diet Study

FlySince9 said:
duh! another $$tudy that states the obvious...
edit: or restates old news...
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Published 1981:
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I’m down 12 lbs on Keto and continuing. I was hitting the gym hard for a while and was bulking at the time, but I’ve been so busy with work and training that I haven’t been to the gym much. Figured I would get rid of my excess weight. I was at about 190 (195 when I was lifting). Currently at 178 and will probably go down to 170-175. Then I can lean bulk.

Anyways...Keto has given me tons of energy compared to a carb centric diet. Great mental acuity as well. Not always easy though. The American diet is carb central.
 
CC268 said:
I’m down 12 lbs on Keto and continuing. I was hitting the gym hard for a while and was bulking at the time, but I’ve been so busy with work and training that I haven’t been to the gym much. Figured I would get rid of my excess weight. I was at about 190 (195 when I was lifting). Currently at 178 and will probably go down to 170-175. Then I can lean bulk.

Anyways...Keto has given me tons of energy compared to a carb centric diet. Great mental acuity as well. Not always easy though. The American diet is carb central.
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Yeah, it took me forever to stop fooling myself that I liked steak, when I really wanted the bread and potatoes every bit as much. I definitely feel better (after about ten days) when I don't eat many carbs. After a stressful period at work (where I fell off the wagon, and the S/O was baking every day!) I'm back to low carbs. After the first, that is.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Yeah, it took me forever to stop fooling myself that I liked steak, when I really wanted the bread and potatoes every bit as much. I definitely feel better (after about ten days) when I don't eat many carbs. After a stressful period at work (where I fell off the wagon, and the S/O was baking every day!) I'm back to low carbs. After the first, that is.
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Yea I cheat on occasion. I grew up on Mexican food so im gonna be eating some good tamales at Christmas time!
 
So why does everyone refer to it as keto these days and I hear almost no one saying they are on the Atkins diet anymore. Is there a significant difference between the two?
 
SkyDog58 said:
So why does everyone refer to it as keto these days and I hear almost no one saying they are on the Atkins diet anymore. Is there a significant difference between the two?
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Very little. Keto is sometimes referred to as a “Modified Atkins” diet. Adkins is very high fat (90% fat) whereas Keto is about (75% fat 20% protein 5% fat). Those numbers can be tweaked a bit of course.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So why does everyone refer to it as keto these days and I hear almost no one saying they are on the Atkins diet anymore. Is there a significant difference between the two?
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"Keto" is in reference to ketosis, which is the mechanism for rapid weight loss in the absence of carbohydrates. Atkins was just the first to publicize it.

As others have stated, it works well. Different people react differently though. Other family members can load up on carbs and stay rail thin. I can't. I feel much better if I mostly eliminate carbohydrates from my diet.
 
Sac Arrow said:
"Keto" is in reference to ketosis, which is the mechanism for rapid weight loss in the absence of carbohydrates. Atkins was just the first to publicize it.

As others have stated, it works well. Different people react differently though. Other family members can load up on carbs and stay rail thin. I can't. I feel much better if I mostly eliminate carbohydrates from my diet.
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I used to be able to eat carbs all day and be thin. Then I turned the ripe old age of about 22-23 and it no longer worked that way :(
 
If a human is actually producing ketones from the incomplete metabolism of body fat during a starvation episode, their brain chemistry is altered in the short term, and cognition is not 100%, nor are energy levels. After the diet stabilizes and there is much less reliance on burning body fat to stay alive, one returns to normal function. The “diet” works for most people because they eat less garbage and focus on a healthy, balanced intake. Nothing new here, at all. For an advanced nation we sure have a crappy habit of eating poorly.
 
CC268 said:
Very little. Keto is sometimes referred to as a “Modified Atkins” diet. Adkins is very high fat (90% fat) whereas Keto is about (75% fat 20% protein 5% fat). Those numbers can be tweaked a bit of course.
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Ok. That makes some sense. Between 2000 & 2001, I dropped from 255 to 180 by using my own modified Atkins. By that I mean I went practically zero carbs but ate most everything else I wanted to eat. I didn't try to hit a certain fat percentage. Now I've crept back up to about 215 so I need to do something again. Need to get more active as well.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Ok. That makes some sense. Between 2000 & 2001, I dropped from 255 to 180 by using my own modified Atkins. By that I mean I went practically zero carbs but ate most everything else I wanted to eat. I didn't try to hit a certain fat percentage. Now I've crept back up to about 215 so I need to do something again. Need to get more active as well.
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Yea I am basically doing the same thing. I don’t try to hit percentages that’s just a general guideline for folks who have never done it before.
 
One caveat of personal interest: low carb generally means high protein; and there is consistent and reproducible epidemiological data linking high protein diet to rates of renal insufficiency (“kidney failure “).
I certainly concede that obesity kills more people than kidney failure, but there appears to be no free lunch...so to speak.
 
wrbix said:
One caveat of personal interest: low carb generally means high protein; and there is consistent and reproducible epidemiological data linking high protein diet to rates of renal insufficiency (“kidney failure “).
I certainly concede that obesity kills more people than kidney failure, but there appears to be no free lunch...so to speak.
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Actually protein intake on Keto is very middle of the road. It’s actually a lot less than when I was bulking on a high carb diet. It’s certainly not an abnormal protein intake. (0.6-0.8g of protein per pound of lean body mass). For me it’s about 100-115g of protein.
 
High protein being a relative term - best of these studies compared the average American diet vs others, such as Southeast Asian.
 
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Lachlan said:
If a human is actually producing ketones from the incomplete metabolism of body fat during a starvation episode, their brain chemistry is altered in the short term, and cognition is not 100%, nor are energy levels.
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I disagree agree with that last part based on first hand experience.

When I was on Keto until about 6 months ago I was able to concentrate MUCH better, sleep MUCH better and had more overall energy during the day, and I was never hungry. Now I'm on a standard healthy, balanced, restricted calorie diet, go to the gym 5 times a week, walk 10'000 steps. You know, all the good stuff.

However, on the standard diet now I have trouble sleeping, I'm dragging through the day, I'm hungry all the time, and my concentration is shot. And I lose weight at a rate of at most 33% the rate of Keto.

Problem with Keto was that you can't "cheat" - not even once - it took me weeks every time to get back into ketosis. I had fairly regular business entertainment obligations at the end that made this too impractical. But boy, it sure was easier and worked MUCH better.
 
I have found a new way to lose weight. Don't know why this hasn't been done before.

All I did was reduce calorie intake and increase calorie burn. Works wonders.

Maybe I should write a book and make millions...
 
Zeldman said:
I have found a new way to lose weight. Don't know why this hasn't been done before.

All I did was reduce calorie intake and increase calorie burn. Works wonders.

Maybe I should write a book and make millions...
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Revolutionary, I know. It's the 'just don't eat that much **** and get off your bum' diet. I have been on that one for a year and a half and down about 35lbs by now. 10 to go and I'll write a book.
I am not keto or Atkins by any means. There are still plenty of carbs in food even if you skip the potatoes or extra helpings of rice. The extra carbs were the easiest to get rid off. Add to that some running, walking with a weight vest or bicycling and it doesn't take all that much effort to gain some useful load.
 
CC268 said:
Very little. Keto is sometimes referred to as a “Modified Atkins” diet. Adkins is very high fat (90% fat) whereas Keto is about (75% fat 20% protein 5% fat). Those numbers can be tweaked a bit of course.
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Atkins is not "90% fat".
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Atkins is not "90% fat".
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Sorry, I meant to say the Classic Keto diet was 90% fat. This is still commonly used for people with epilepsy. Keto is not a new diet despite what a lot of folks think. The Keto diet most people follow is now closer to that of the Atkins diet, which is why it is commonly referred to as the "modified keto" diet.
 
deonb said:
I disagree agree with that last part based on first hand experience.

When I was on Keto until about 6 months ago I was able to concentrate MUCH better, sleep MUCH better and had more overall energy during the day, and I was never hungry. Now I'm on a standard healthy, balanced, restricted calorie diet, go to the gym 5 times a week, walk 10'000 steps. You know, all the good stuff.

However, on the standard diet now I have trouble sleeping, I'm dragging through the day, I'm hungry all the time, and my concentration is shot. And I lose weight at a rate of at most 33% the rate of Keto.

Problem with Keto was that you can't "cheat" - not even once - it took me weeks every time to get back into ketosis. I had fairly regular business entertainment obligations at the end that made this too impractical. But boy, it sure was easier and worked MUCH better.
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This is 100% spot on. If anyone is really interested in the medical side of keto, look up Dom D'Agostino. Fascinating research. It is well established that keto provides better mental acuity and better endurance. A lot of professional marathon runners/cyclists/etc choose to follow a Keto diet and many other professional athletes are starting to follow one as well. Now, there is some evidence that suggests carbs are better for certain activities.

With regards to cheating. Your right that you shouldn't be cheating on a weekly basis. That said, you should be right back into ketosis in 24-48 hours no problem. However, everyone's body is different. I can cheat and be back into ketosis fairly quickly. I use a blood monitor to verify (which is really the only accurate method of knowing).

I'm not one for diets to be honest. I've tried many different diets over the years. I thought many of these were simply not sustainable. I think Keto is actually one of the easier ones to follow. There are actually some really great keto desserts you can make, although the benefit of keto is that it usually removes the desire for sweets. I still like something sweet though.

I don't know that I will follow keto long term. I think it is an excellent way to lose weight, but once I get to my target weight I will probably start a lean bulk and stray away from the stricter keto diet. That said I still plan to make healthy choices.

As everyone knows, discussing diets tends to turn into a religious debate. I could care less what diet anyone follows. Follow what works for you.
 
Zeldman said:
I have found a new way to lose weight. Don't know why this hasn't been done before.

All I did was reduce calorie intake and increase calorie burn. Works wonders.

Maybe I should write a book and make millions...
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Yep. And the fitness industry is filled with billions of dollars for magic pills lol. Like I said, I'm not a keto zealot lol - it's just a particular path that has worked very well for me.
 
Lachlan said:
If a human is actually producing ketones from the incomplete metabolism of body fat during a starvation episode, their brain chemistry is altered in the short term, and cognition is not 100%, nor are energy levels. After the diet stabilizes and there is much less reliance on burning body fat to stay alive, one returns to normal function. The “diet” works for most people because they eat less garbage and focus on a healthy, balanced intake. Nothing new here, at all. For an advanced nation we sure have a crappy habit of eating poorly.
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Yessir. That is spot on. The "keto flu" comes to mind lol. The first few days of transitioning you feel like crap, can't think well, etc. Although I have to admit I didn't have it too bad. My wife had it worse. The research I've seen (Dom D'Agostino being one of my main points of interest) says it can actually take several months to really see the full benefit of keto.

Again, I'm not saying keto is the only way lol. Far from it. I've tried a lot of different diets. And yes, at the end of the day it's basically - don't eat a burger a fries for every meal lol.
 
deonb said:
I disagree agree with that last part based on first hand experience.

When I was on Keto until about 6 months ago I was able to concentrate MUCH better, sleep MUCH better and had more overall energy during the day, and I was never hungry. Now I'm on a standard healthy, balanced, restricted calorie diet, go to the gym 5 times a week, walk 10'000 steps. You know, all the good stuff.

However, on the standard diet now I have trouble sleeping, I'm dragging through the day, I'm hungry all the time, and my concentration is shot. And I lose weight at a rate of at most 33% the rate of Keto.

Problem with Keto was that you can't "cheat" - not even once - it took me weeks every time to get back into ketosis. I had fairly regular business entertainment obligations at the end that made this too impractical. But boy, it sure was easier and worked MUCH better.
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If you weren’t producing ketones from the incomplete metabolism of fat due to a severe caloric deficit, then there is a big, BIG difference between what I said and what you wrote. Did you actually test your urine for acetoacetic acid or beta-hydroxybutyrate? ;)
 
A lot of discussions of this sort devolve into a great deal of N=1 evidence and reasoning. There also is an industry of “researchers” peddling for profit programs.
I also have to cast serious doubt on using Keto diet as a cancer therapy a la D’Agostino.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Keto/Atkins/other fad diets have been increasingly popular in America for decades..... and the American BMI continues to rise.
Good sense should prevail.
 
I don't have hard data, but I'm guessing that "Diabesity" (diabetes + obesity) and the associated complications (heart/brain/vision) is the #1 reason why aging pilots lose their ticket.

A friend turned me on to the book "Any Way You Can" by Annette Bosworth, M.D. Interesting introduction to the ketogenic lifestyle.

I'm giving the keto diet a go after the holidays. My wife thinks I'll give up after a week :) We'll see!
 
CC268 said:
Very little. Keto is sometimes referred to as a “Modified Atkins” diet. Adkins is very high fat (90% fat) whereas Keto is about (75% fat 20% protein 5% fat). Those numbers can be tweaked a bit of course.
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Atkins isn't really high fat. Keto is the high fat one. I've done them both. As a matter of fact I've lost over 100lbs over the past several years doing keto and pure carnivore. I've posted my before and after on a few of these threads.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So why does everyone refer to it as keto these days and I hear almost no one saying they are on the Atkins diet anymore. Is there a significant difference between the two?
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Keto is a higher fat lower protein. No limit on protein with Atkins, but keto keeps you down to around 20% for protein, around 75% fat or so. 5% carbs.
 
BrianNC said:
Atkins isn't really high fat. Keto is the high fat one. I've done them both. As a matter of fact I've lost over 100lbs over the past several years doing keto and pure carnivore. I've posted my before and after on a few of these threads.
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See my response to Kenny. I corrected myself. The original Keto diet was very high fat. Targeted for epilepsy patients.
 
I've done the zero-carb thing several times. It doesn't work at all if you're not moving too - Doing it while driving a truck had zero effect, whereas doing it while working the line at an airport, or just getting regular exercise while working a desk job, always resulted in a 30-35 lb loss in about 3 weeks. That's about as long as I can stand to go completely zero carb.

Because the weight comes off so quickly, my muscles are still used to carrying it around and thus I end up with much more energy, which makes it much easier to continue being active and lose more weight even as I'm adding carbs back in. The real trick is to stay away from simple sugars.

Americans, however, eat an awful lot of stuff that has various sugars in it, the worst being High Fructose Corn Syrup. That stuff is evil, but I gots to have my egg nog!

Not having the "sugar crash" hunger is a real thing. Once I've gotten over the "Atkins Flu" of the first 2-3 days, I don't find myself getting hungry at all.

It's probably about time I start again. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's probably about time I start again. :(
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....and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the issue - these fad diets are just generally unsustainable. We all need to establish a lifestyle of activity balanced by caloric intake that can be sustainable for our life stages.
Calories are Calories. Intake = output.
 
wrbix said:
....and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the issue - these fad diets are just generally unsustainable. We all need to establish a lifestyle of activity balanced by caloric intake that can be sustainable for our life stages.
Calories are Calories. Intake = output.
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Calories are not calories. The kind of calorie it is will trigger different body processes to take place. This can cause you to store fat rather than burn it and also to make you lethargic rather than energetic. There are also satiety effects. 500 calories of steak is not anything like 500 calories of chocolate. I repeat, calories are not calories.

The human body was meant to eat fruits, nuts, some veggies and meat. High carb foods like read, rice, pasta, and potatoes are not on that list. Is it any wonder that when the government stressed them in the food pyramid that America got fat?
 
Whatever your diet, eat anything you want for 10% of the time. Just have discipline in keeping that binge to 10%.
 
bflynn said:
Calories are not calories. The kind of calorie it is will trigger different body processes to take place. This can cause you to store fat rather than burn it and also to make you lethargic rather than energetic. There are also satiety effects. 500 calories of steak is not anything like 500 calories of chocolate. I repeat, calories are not calories.

The human body was meant to eat fruits, nuts, some veggies and meat. High carb foods like read, rice, pasta, and potatoes are not on that list. Is it any wonder that when the government stressed them in the food pyramid that America got fat?
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Maybe the the best post in this thread. So damn true.
 
wrbix said:
....and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the issue - these fad diets are just generally unsustainable. We all need to establish a lifestyle of activity balanced by caloric intake that can be sustainable for our life stages.
Calories are Calories. Intake = output.
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I completely agree. You need something sustainable. The thing is...that is different for each and every person. Diets that I have tried that we’re sustainable for others we’re not sustainable for me.

You could call just about any diet a fad diet.
 
wrbix said:
....and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the issue - these fad diets are just generally unsustainable. We all need to establish a lifestyle of activity balanced by caloric intake that can be sustainable for our life stages.
Calories are Calories. Intake = output.
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There is no "diet" other than "eat whatever you want" that is sustainable long-term by 100% of the population.

For me, I just don't want to eliminate carbs forever. There's an awful lot of 'em that are really yummy! :p

And, like many others, I'm lazy when it comes to food. It's just not a priority for me to be super-fitness-guy. So after an extra-long day at work, I'm gonna grab whatever happens to be easy and convenient, which is generally NOT something that conforms to whatever diet. Religiously following the keto/Atkins thing for 3 weeks is easy, for 3 years is very hard! But I find that after that first 3 weeks I have better habits in terms of paying more attention to what exactly I'm eating, and I still keep the carbs low where possible, and try to limit it to complex carbs, fruits, etc rather than crap stuffed with sugar. That helps to keep the weight loss going.

But, the last time I did this was before I met my wife... And after we met, we had a lot of dine-out dates, which are bad... And now we have a kid and I'm in full-on dad-bod mode.
 
bflynn said:
Calories are not calories. The kind of calorie it is will trigger different body processes to take place. This can cause you to store fat rather than burn it and also to make you lethargic rather than energetic. There are also satiety effects. 500 calories of steak is not anything like 500 calories of chocolate. I repeat, calories are not calories.

The human body was meant to eat fruits, nuts, some veggies and meat. High carb foods like read, rice, pasta, and potatoes are not on that list. Is it any wonder that when the government stressed them in the food pyramid that America got fat?
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Science to back up these claims?
 
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