New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

jjflys

jjflys

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jjflys
So I have started my instrument ground school and I am going up with my CFI tomorrow morning for my first official IR lesson since getting my private (I have 3.6 under the hood). I'll probably be going on a cross country under the hood because I need the time (currently have about 20 XC PIC) and I believe the plan is just some good attitude instrument flying.

What's the best tip that you can offer to a new IR student?
 
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Re: New IR student

If you're just starting IR flight training, buy and read Peter Dogan's Instrument Flight Training Manual (widely available on the internet). It's the best practical IR flying book on the market.
 
I recommend you closely examine the curriculum vitae of your CFII. These skills will be with you lifelong and don't take shortcuts on your training. If the CFII balks at the question, walk....no RUN!
 
Jaybird180 said:
I recommend you closely examine the curriculum vitae of your CFII. These skills will be with you lifelong and don't take shortcuts on your training. If the CFII balks at the question, walk....no RUN!
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I don't know about that. You might be better off just looking at your CFIIs résumé.
 
I'm going to toss out several, take the ones you like, throw the rest back!


Remember that IFR flight is just a series of graceful corrections to altitude, airspeed, course, etc :) .

Be smooth with the airplane and don't stop your scan even when you see deviations. My major problem beginning instrument flying was when I'd see a deviation, I'd stop my scan and fixate until it was corrected. Only to find a brand new deviation waiting for me at the end.

Get as much done in terms of what's next, as early as possible. One of the best ways to do that is chair flight the route the night before. More often than not the forecast at that point will give you an idea of what approaches you might fly at the airports you plan to visit. Pull out the chart and plates and think to yourself, where will I tune this, put this frequency in, etc. Also briefing the approaches before hand will eliminate any 'surprises' the chart may have in store for you.

Good luck to you! And if you have some x-country time to burn, try and diversify your destinations as much as possible.
 
Fly as often as you can, but don't rush the basics...make sure you are happy with your instructor having you hone in on them. Building a really solid foundation will help you alot down the road when things get, shall we say, "busy".

Good luck and enjoy it, it's an awesome rating and a great experience!
 
One of the earliest activities with the CFII should be identifying the numbers - settings for 500 fpm climb, descent, climbing turns, descending turns, approach, etc. Once you have those numbers, fly those numbers.
 
jjflys said:
So I have started my instrument ground school and I am going up with my CFI tomorrow morning for my first official IR lesson since getting my private (I have 3.6 under the hood). I'll probably be going on a cross country under the hood because I need the time (currently have about 20 XC PIC) and I believe the plan is just some good attitude instrument flying.

What's the best tip that you can offer to a new IR student?
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Never forget that as long as you keep the airplane right side up and don't run into anything solid while flying, you can handle almost anything.
 
Keep your scan going and don't fixate on any one instrument. if you try to be too perfect on any one instrument, you will end up neglecting something else. If you keep your scan going and manage the "big picture" IR flying is actually quite straightforward and a lot of fun too.
 
Be smooth with the airplane and don't stop your scan even when you see deviations. My major problem beginning instrument flying was when I'd see a deviation, I'd stop my scan and fixate until it was corrected. Only to find a brand new deviation waiting for me at the end.
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One of the earliest activities with the CFII should be identifying the numbers - settings for 500 fpm climb, descent, climbing turns, descending turns, approach, etc. Once you have those numbers, fly those numbers.
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Keep your scan going and don't fixate on any one instrument. if you try to be too perfect on any one instrument, you will end up neglecting something else. If you keep your scan going and manage the "big picture" IR flying is actually quite straightforward and a lot of fun too.
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These times a million. Being proficient at the basics of attitude instrument flying and developing a proper scan are the foundations of instrument flying...the rest is procedures. Flying IFR routes and flying instrument approaches basically boil down to being able to follow directions and perform a series of tasks in a specific order. If you can master the basic control of the aircraft first, the rest is easy.
 
Small corrections. Always small corrections when keeping the needles centered.

Oh, and I like Machado's Instrument Pilot Survival Guide.
 
Ghery said:
Oh, and I like Machado's Instrument Pilot Survival Guide.
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+1

Never finished reading either of the other two texts: Dogan or Jep. (they're basically useless)
 
Fly in the worst weather possible, if your CFII is afraid to fly in the clouds, find another instructor.
 
Always be asking yourself, "What are the next two things that I should be doing?"
 
jjflys said:
What's the best tip that you can offer to a new IR student?
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SVT, it'll be cheaper than maintaining the same level of proficiency and ability required for safety than in a steam gauge plane.
 
Definitely

This

Threefingeredjack said:
Get as much actual IMC time as you can. There's no substitute for the real thing.
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and This

"Fly in the worst weather possible, if your CFII is afraid to fly in the clouds, find another instructor."
 
Be prepared to deviate and land when both your CFII and you work in IT and the "the server is down" text messages start.

And then resume course when the cell phone manages to get through to calm the situation. ;)

(Heh. Thought I'd post that so Jesse would laugh. Us sysadmins have to hang together! Would have made us really late for dinner with Tony and Leah, though!)
 
Ghery said:
Small corrections. Always small corrections when keeping the needles centered.
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Agreed. Most instrument approaches are long, you have plenty of time to get the plane back on course. Small, constant corrections reduce the need to chase the needles.

- jkw
 
Have fun. Sometimes when the frustration sets in (usually just before things start to click), it's easy to forget that.
Get a copy of MSFS or some sim. Learn the procedures from your instructor, practice them as you've been taught on the sim. For things like PT's, holds, entry visualization and such, it'll save you a lot of time and $ in the airplane.
 
murphey said:
One of the earliest activities with the CFII should be identifying the numbers - settings for 500 fpm climb, descent, climbing turns, descending turns, approach, etc. Once you have those numbers, fly those numbers.
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+1 Learn the numbers for your plane then "set it and forget it". It will free up brain cells to fly the plane.
 
Inverted said:
Fly in the worst weather possible, if your CFII is afraid to fly in the clouds, find another instructor.
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:yeahthat:

I got my IR with nearly zero actual. My instructor was afraid to fly in the clouds. I basically had to just go fer it after I passed the checkride. It worked out just fine, but I felt kinda stupid being nervous about flying in the clouds after all of that IR training and checkride.

Fast forward and I flew my first ILS approach to something resembling minimums this sunday. I was a tad nervous about taking off into a 600 foot ceiling and under 2mi visibility but once I got in the clouds I felt comfortable - stayed ahead of the airplane and it was a great experience for me. Really glad I got the rating! You will be too.
 
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dell30rb said:
:yeahthat:

I got my IR with nearly zero actual. My instructor was afraid to fly in the clouds. I basically had to just go fer it after I passed the checkride. It worked out just fine, but I felt kinda stupid being nervous about flying in the clouds after all of that IR training and checkride.

Fast forward and I flew my first ILS approach to something resembling minimums this sunday. I was a tad nervous about taking off into a 600 foot ceiling and under 2mi visibility but once I got in the clouds I felt comfortable - stayed ahead of the airplane and it was a great experience for me. Really glad I got the rating! You will be too.
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How do CFIIs feel about this?
 
Jaybird180 said:
How do CFIIs feel about this?
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He was an elderly guy who had a lot of experience instructing but I don't think he has been in the clouds in quite some time. He canceled on me one day with about 6 hrs to go until checkride on a 2000ft overcast day with light winds. I was really frustrated at that point - ready to switch instructors but I was so close to the checkride that I just stuck with it.

I think he is an excellent primary instructor and recommend him to anyone but I would not give my recommendation for instrument.
 
I did a checkout flight in a new to me airframe and the CFI was burned out on primary instruction. Unfortunately, I had to insist on doing "boring airwork". about 9hrs and did something like 5 or 6 stalls and maybe 4 mins of slow flight. We did lots of high wind practice though and T/O and L's.
 
Jaybird180 said:
How do CFIIs feel about this?
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I've yet to meet a fellow II who refused to fly actual, but it seems they aren't that uncommon. It all depends on what stage of training the student is in. If it's your first time flying an arc or and ILS, then maybe you wait for a VFR day and practice in the sim, however, any CFII who is willing to sign off a student for an instrument ride should be willing to sit right seat with their arms folded while that student flies an instrument approach to minimums.
 
There are other reasons besides fear that some instructors don't provide a lot of experience in actual. The lowest MDA at my home field is ~500 AGL, which means that most days with good IMC, there is a significant risk of having to divert to a "nearby" field with an ILS. Both PTK and DET are at least a half hour drive each way for whoever has to get us. My CFII isn't often willing to deal with the hassle of calling someone and waiting around to get picked up. I have a few tenths of an hour logged from the first few months of my training in the club 172, but that's it. Except for a bit of actual here and there in VMC instrument conditions, the rest is all hood time, and with summer coming, I doubt if I'll get another chance at actual before the checkride.
 
azure said:
There are other reasons besides fear that some instructors don't provide a lot of experience in actual. The lowest MDA at my home field is ~500 AGL, which means that most days with good IMC, there is a significant risk of having to divert to a "nearby" field with an ILS. Both PTK and DET are at least a half hour drive each way for whoever has to get us. My CFII isn't often willing to deal with the hassle of calling someone and waiting around to get picked up. I have a few tenths of an hour logged from the first few months of my training in the club 172, but that's it. Except for a bit of actual here and there in VMC instrument conditions, the rest is all hood time, and with summer coming, I doubt if I'll get another chance at actual before the checkride.
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So if I as a student want to get actual, what the best time of year to train (my part of the country)?
 
I would say don't be afraid to get the plane slowed down early so you can stay ahead of things. Get it stabilized and configured so you can concentrate on the approach.

I'm sure that flying in some actual is quite helpful and wouldn't dispute that. During my training that opportunity didn't present itself so I didn't get any actual until after. I think after spending all that time just looking at the panel with the foggles on it was not hard to do that when in actual rather than trying to look up, look down, rinse repeat.
 
EppyGA said:
I would say don't be afraid to get the plane slowed down early so you can stay ahead of things. Get it stabilized and configured so you can concentrate on the approach.

I'm sure that flying in some actual is quite helpful and wouldn't dispute that. During my training that opportunity didn't present itself so I didn't get any actual until after. I think after spending all that time just looking at the panel with the foggles on it was not hard to do that when in actual rather than trying to look up, look down, rinse repeat.
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I didn't have much trouble flying in actual, after a little getting used to, i've found it easier than flying with foggles on. I can fly 1.5hrs worth of approaches in actual and feel fresh after, with foggles on that same amount of time turns my brain to jelly.

The thing about it was, if I just had 2-3 hours with an instructor, it would have made life a little easier for me. Days after I got my rating, I took a long x/c trip and wound up with some surprise MVFR at my destination. It would have been a perfect opportunity to utilize my rating, but I decided to cancel and fly VFR under the stuff instead. It was not dangerously low weather, but I felt stupid for doing it. Not to mention, flying in weather gives a great chance for an instructor to impart extra knowledge.
 
As someone who will hopefully be certified to send students chasing after clouds this Sunday I would say it depends. For me at least. I would take into consideration the student, our objective, my own personal minimums, and if the IMC conditions were related to any weather that would constitute a 'no go' decision.

Of course I'll be constantly striving to improve my own personal limits as I too agree the several hours of actual I got during instrument training was invaluable experience.
 
Seriously though, go ask around old guys who the local QB CFIIs are and choose the most sadistic bastard of them; do all 40hrs with them flying cross countries every day for a week regardless the weather and shoot approaches into everywhere along the way.
 
Jaybird180 said:
So if I as a student want to get actual, what the best time of year to train (my part of the country)?
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I've never flown in the DC area -- or anywhere east of the Appalachians for that matter. It was late fall when I got what little actual I did -- once during a warm spell when the freezing level was high enough, once actually in subfreezing temps in some dissipating clouds (but it was well above freezing below the clouds), and once in a heavy snow shower coming back from shooting approaches. I guess late spring might be a good time too.
 
Inverted said:
Fly in the worst weather possible, if your CFII is afraid to fly in the clouds, find another instructor.
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What do you see as the best weather for IR training?

Our school has a 2000' and 3 mile vis limit for IR flights. Which is really hard to get around here. Its either 500' or 3000' with thunderstorms. So all my 5 hours of actual is basically all cruise. Also my CFI-I hated actual IFR flying. He wanted you to be perfect before he would take you into actual. My first CFI-I made our first true IR training flight, had done 5 hours of sim time earlier, into an actual night IFR x/c flight. I was nervous as hell and fixated on the gauges the whole time. But busting out over a city at night is very sweet!

My tips are:

DONT CHEAT while using foggles. As tempting as it maybe it hurts you in the long run!

DONT file direct to everything on your x/c. It may seem like a good idea at first but later you will see the benefit of using SID/STARS and V-Routes.

Make sure you watch out for altitudes with stars on NACO plates
EX: 2500* *Maintain 2600 or Above until established outbound for procedure turn.
It means there is an exception somewhere. Those got me all the time on my IR flights because its hard to notice the small *.
 
ARFlyer said:
What do you see as the best weather for IR training?

Our school has a 2000' and 3 mile vis limit for IR flights. Which is really hard to get around here. Its either 500' or 3000' with thunderstorms. So all my 5 hours of actual is basically all cruise. Also my CFI-I hated actual IFR flying. He wanted you to be perfect before he would take you into actual. My first CFI-I made our first true IR training flight, had done 5 hours of sim time earlier, into an actual night IFR x/c flight. I was nervous as hell and fixated on the gauges the whole time. But busting out over a city at night is very sweet!
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Umm that's VFR...

That limit, on top of your CFII not wanting to fly actual would have been it for me.
 
ARFlyer said:
What do you see as the best weather for IR training?
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As a newer instrument rated guy myself, coming out of the system with 0 actual and a piece of paper, the biggest moments for me were:

Flying into the clouds for the first time.

Flying in the clouds in turbulence

Flying a hold in the clouds, then a non precision approach

Intercepting the glide slope, and following the needles down until breaking out.

In the event the forecast changes, or you let yourself get backed into a corner otherwise while IFR, the ILS is more than likely going to be your savior. If you're out flying in any sort of low weather, you should know the alternates available with ILS, and of course have the fuel to utilize them. You need to be comfortable intercepting the localizer, glideslope and following the needles down until you break out - you should get a feeling of relief when you intercept, not anxiety! By limiting your flying to a celing of 2000 or better, you'll never get to experience this with your instructor.
 
For me, by far the best part is flying through a cumulus field (at about 12,000 ft where the tops are a few thousand higher), asking for left-n-right deviations, and threading through the clouds. Kind of like mountain flying with the great sensation of speed except that if you "touch" these mountains from getting too close you survive :D.

Another tip that I really appreciated someone giving me when I first got my IR is to file your IFR plans on fltplan.com. The best part is you get your clearance before the flight, so you have it written down and ready to go before you get it read to you over the air. It can be sent via text message or email. As a new IR pilot trying to copy a clearance in an unknown area on a busy frequency where the clearance is complicated, it is SO incredibly useful to have "cheated" and have the clearance already written down. They can change it up a little but usually not much.
 
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