New Bendix - King Boxes

SCCutler

SCCutler

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Spike Cutler
Looks like they are making a shot at the 430/530 marketplace (about time!), with the KSN770, and the new KFD840 is "...an affordable replacement option for all the analog instruments in the steam gauge 'six pack.'"

Could be interesting... the 840, in particular, depending (of course) on what they call, "affordable."

https://www3.bendixking.com/commoncwassoagent?customdata=sso.whybendixking.page
 
SCCutler said:
Looks like they are making a shot at the 430/530 marketplace (about time!), with the KSN770, and the new KFD840 is "...an affordable replacement option for all the analog instruments in the steam gauge 'six pack.'"

Could be interesting... the 840, in particular, depending (of course) on what they call, "affordable."

https://www3.bendixking.com/commoncwassoagent?customdata=sso.whybendixking.page
Click to expand...

Good, this will be interesting to watch develope. I've been wondering when Bendix King wa going to step up to the plate on this, or if they were going to allow Garmin to maintain their monopoly on the advanced function radio market. Now, the question is, are they going to do this right, or make another VFR box as Garmin has done with the 530/430s. Hopefully, B/K will have the software set up to enter Victor and Jet airways directly without requiring all the waypoints be entered. If not, I will be severely dissappointed. I hope as well, that this may put an end to the price fixing system Garmin has in place as well as the extrodinary pricing. My expectations on that front however, are not high. It is good to see another player in the game.
 
That PFD isn't a replacement for steam gauges if you have to keep some as backups.
 
JohnR said:
That PFD isn't a replacement for steam gauges if you have to keep some as backups.
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I like the placement of those backup gauges. Use the LifeSaver AI (1 hr internal battery), and we'd be golden. I wonder if putting them in front of the right seat is enough for certification ? Probably not.
 
Henning said:
Hopefully, B/K will have the software set up to enter Victor and Jet airways directly without requiring all the waypoints be entered. If not, I will be severely dissappointed.
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According to the brochure...



Unique GUI Interface

Based on the graphical user interface found on advanced business jets, our
GUI enables graphical flight planning with a cursor control device so simple to
use, flight planning and enroute navigation have never been easier.
Click to expand...
 
Henning said:
Nice words, I read them, but as yet, they haven't given me any details, just glowing euphamisms. I'm hopefull, but not exactly optimistic.
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I hear you. I think their "announcement" is a little early, too... they don't plan to certify the unit until late 2008. NEXT year's OSH might have been a more appropriate venue.
 
While we're on the topic of Bendix King, look at what they're doing with synthetic vision in the jets... this will be cool when it gets to GA:
 

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Certification goal is "late 2008" -- that's a year and a half from now. Who's going to wait that long (or longer, given the poor performance of everyone in aviation in meeting original certification date goals) for the KSN770 with the 430/530 available now?
 
I hate to throw rocks, but

"the future is here"????

"But that's not the only technology separating the KSN 770 from less worthy systems"????

They have to prove themselves on this one. Strange, I was just looking at the cover of my KAP140 manual today thinking "man, B/K is sooo 1980's in their look/feel, they really need to update things." I have lots of mental free time to think about stuff like that. :redface:
 
Troy Whistman said:
And if that's too expensive for you, this one really IS affordable... and is for certified GA aircraft, not experimentals:

http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=e9c14db7-803c-47fb-a6fa-718828023cc9&
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I kinda like the concept of that Aspen unit. With a PFD system, one needs airspeed, altimeter & horizon backups anyway, so why move them all over the panel? Just put it in place of the the two most unreliable items: the vacuum-driven DG and AI. The turn coordinator should be enough to keep one upright from the standard 6-pack, and if not, an electric AI could be put in where the ASI is. Hmmmm....

-Rich
 
rpadula said:
I kinda like the concept of that Aspen unit. With a PFD system, one needs airspeed, altimeter & horizon backups anyway, so why move them all over the panel? Just put it in place of the the two most unreliable items: the vacuum-driven DG and AI. The turn coordinator should be enough to keep one upright from the standard 6-pack, and if not, an electric AI could be put in where the ASI is. Hmmmm....

-Rich
Click to expand...


After reading over the material, watching the video, and looking at the screenshots, I'm VERY impressed with how their system works. It looks more professional in the graphics quality than the B/K unit, in my opinion.

I like the modular approach; as they say, once you have two of these installed (PFD/MFD), you have the perfect "backup" system, as each unit is totally independent of the other (internal backup battery for 30 minutes run time, reversionary displays (MFD can act as PFD), each unit has it's own GPS and solid state gyro)... the possibility of partial panel is just about nil.

And the PRICE... holy cow! I hope they do REALLY well on this!

http://www.aspenavionics.com/index.php/products/evolution/
 
Aspen- about damn time someone did that.

This sort of option makes lots of planes with marginal panels a lot more interesting.
 
SCCutler said:
Aspen- about damn time someone did that.

This sort of option makes lots of planes with marginal panels a lot more interesting.
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That's exactly what I was thinking... good engine, airframe, who cares about the panel now?!
 
Troy Whistman said:
I hear you. I think their "announcement" is a little early, too... they don't plan to certify the unit until late 2008. NEXT year's OSH might have been a more appropriate venue.
Click to expand...

They're trying to jump in with an announcement before Garmin actually releases the G-600 "update" panel for certified aircraft.
 
Ron Levy said:
Certification goal is "late 2008" -- that's a year and a half from now. Who's going to wait that long (or longer, given the poor performance of everyone in aviation in meeting original certification date goals) for the KSN770 with the 430/530 available now?
Click to expand...

Because the 430/530 is basically useless for IFR in an environment where ATC assigns Victor airways and Dept/Arrv proceedures? I ran into that once in SoCal airspace, that was enough for me to assign the 430/530 boxes a VFR only rating.
 
Troy Whistman said:
While we're on the topic of Bendix King, look at what they're doing with synthetic vision in the jets... this will be cool when it gets to GA:
Click to expand...

It's already here(has been fo awhile) for experimental, and someone was telling me the Chelton is now upgraded to fwd 3D terrain as well.
 
Henning said:
Because the 430/530 is basically useless for IFR in an environment where ATC assigns Victor airways and Dept/Arrv proceedures? I ran into that once in SoCal airspace, that was enough for me to assign the 430/530 boxes a VFR only rating.
Click to expand...

I read someplace recently, Aviation Consumer (maybe), that the next software update to the G1000s (and probably the 430W/530W) will include Airways in the map database. That should help. I wonder if the recent work on RNAV SIDs/STARs is precipitating this update.

I rarely get an Arrival Procedure, but DPs are another matter.

It's nice to see Bendix-King getting into the game. I'm sure this will put the G600 work into high gear. Ok, maybe not. ;-)
 
Henning said:
Because the 430/530 is basically useless for IFR in an environment where ATC assigns Victor airways and Dept/Arrv proceedures? I ran into that once in SoCal airspace, that was enough for me to assign the 430/530 boxes a VFR only rating.
Click to expand...

I agree that the absent Victor airways are an irritant, although I find I get Victor airway routings so rarely any more that it is not a huge problem.

The 430 and 530 do, however, have Departures and Arrivals in the database, and they are very easy to use. I agree that, were they absent, it would be a big strike against 'em, but such is not the case. You press, "Proc," select the DP/STAR from a list, then it offers you all of the published transitions, you select yours, and it is all loaded into your active flight plan and ready to go.

Then, as you go through the flight, if they clear you for a short-cut in the procedure, you just hit "FPL," highlight the waypoint to which you were just cleared, and off you go.

If the original-issue 430/530 lacked the departures and arrivals, I don't know about it, but they've been there since I began flying IFR.
 
When I first started flying biz jets, many of the boxes didn't have airways in them. (King Global 900, Collins 850 and the like). Man! The 850 had a number pad like a phone and a ltr button to get the right letter. When I got my first cell phone I could enter names very quickly.....

I too think that in this day and age, all these boxes should have airways in them. You should be able to enter things like- DJB (enter) V522.fails (enter) and you should have the airway and anything in between.

John
 
Henning said:
Because the 430/530 is basically useless for IFR in an environment where ATC assigns Victor airways and Dept/Arrv proceedures? I ran into that once in SoCal airspace, that was enough for me to assign the 430/530 boxes a VFR only rating.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget that a 430W/530W is still the cheapest way for a GA pilot to get access to an a GPS approach with LPV minimums. That, alone, is worth quite a bit.
 
SCCutler said:
I agree that the absent Victor airways are an irritant, although I find I get Victor airway routings so rarely any more that it is not a huge problem.
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In SoCal it's all you get and the airways have intersection doglegs.
 
FlyNE said:
Let's not forget that a 430W/530W is still the cheapest way for a GA pilot to get access to an a GPS approach with LPV minimums. That, alone, is worth quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Not to me, not when ATC comes in and say "We have an ammended clearance for you, let me know when you're ready to copy" and the gives me 7 victor airways with a total of 22 dog legs and intersections within 60 miles and I'm single pilot IFR. The LPV approach has value yes, but not enough to make up for that short coming in a box I'm paying over $13,000 for, because where that scenario leaves me is dialing radios and flying off a chart in my lap, and I can do that for a heck of a lot less money.
 
Henning said:
In SoCal it's all you get and the airways have intersection doglegs.
Click to expand...

I guess this would explain why I am always deviating to GNS480 / MX20 being my preferred setup.
 
The lack of Victor airways in the G430/530/1000 is puzzling, and damned inconvenient. You really have to be on your toes entering a Victor airway. Seems like such a basic programming thing. My Cessna guys have pix of the G1000 beta software with Victor airways, should be coming out soon. Let's hope...
 
flyersfan31 said:
The lack of Victor airways in the G430/530/1000 is puzzling, and damned inconvenient. You really have to be on your toes entering a Victor airway. Seems like such a basic programming thing. My Cessna guys have pix of the G1000 beta software with Victor airways, should be coming out soon. Let's hope...
Click to expand...

I am looking forward to that software update trickling down to the current G1000 fleet. One of the guys at the FBO said the new Cessna G1000s already have the update. I have no way of verifying, unless I win the powerball. :)
 
Henning said:
The LPV approach has value yes, but not enough to make up for that short coming in a box I'm paying over $13,000 for, because where that scenario leaves me is dialing radios and flying off a chart in my lap, and I can do that for a heck of a lot less money.
Click to expand...

I thought 430's were costing about half that for the box, plus installation of course.
 
If your GPS doesn't do airways, do you just fly direct ? LOL !!
 
Anthony said:
I thought 430's were costing about half that for the box, plus installation of course.
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I want to shop at your avionics shop!!!!!!:D

It's that "plus the installation" thing that's a killer for a lot of these WAAS installs. New cables, new antennae, annunciators for some. Before you know it, there goes a whole bundle of AMUs flying out the wallet.

I just CAN'T wait until they price out upgrading legacy G1000 installations for the WAAS upgrade. I'm sure it'll be a fair price. :rofl:
 
SCCutler said:
I guess this would explain why I am always deviating to GNS480 / MX20 being my preferred setup.
Click to expand...

Mine as well, but since I'm in no immediate need, I'd like to see what Burger King is coming out with. I'm getting less and less fond of Garmin as time goes by. The last thing I had from them that I was truely pleased with was the old DGPS 53 mushroom head, because that's allit was, a receiver that fed my computer through a serial cable. I have never been pleased with Garmin's software apps and user interfaces. Good thing they kept the UPS software and interfaces for the 480.
 
Henning said:
For the 430w? I was considering the 530w anyway, and yes, installation is a real cost....
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I'm not up on the current WAAS pricing for the 430. I've been quoted just under $10K for a non-WAAS 430, including install, so its not apples to apples.
 
Anthony said:
I'm not up on the current WAAS pricing for the 430. I've been quoted just under $10K for a non-WAAS 430, including install, so its not apples to apples.
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I've seen a similar quote out here, although it was on a refurb unit. Nonetheless, it was 9K or 9.5K, something in that neighborhood, installed.

BK is probably too little, and danged near 10 years too late. IF they could have gotten into the new skyhawks/skylane/206/mustang NavIII, as they were the sole avionics for the NavII package...

Jim G
 
Anthony said:
I'm not up on the current WAAS pricing for the 430. I've been quoted just under $10K for a non-WAAS 430, including install, so its not apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Yeah, non WAAS=No LPV or any vertical guidance approaches. That's not even worth considering anymore.
 
I know I am coming late on this one but..

The King stuff is not near as impressive to me as the Aspen stuff IF they can truly integrate with existing panels. If they deliver, the G600 will not near as compelling. I love the modular approach tot he aspen stuff.

I do not fly every day on the coasts where airways are used. For me traveling back and forth to Boston/NYC entering the routing in the 430 is not that big of a deal. I usually do not fly the whole thing anyway before I get a direct routing. One of the items that the Garmin MFD does not give you is a radar interface other than their own stuff. That was big to me and a huge part of the decision in why I went with the EX500 and a 430 rather than a 480 (The 480 Gama graphics on the 429 interface are not supported so no curved flight paths, etc) Another angle.... I believe that at some point in the future the 480 option will be absorbed into the 430/530 product line.....I will put away my crystal ball now.. :)


John
 
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