Net Neutrality

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
16,169
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Display Name
Display name:
Luvflyin
Net neutrality is dead. The last appeal struck it down Oct 01. I've noticed Yahoo news started getting slow about then. Maybe they got a technical problem. I dunno. Anyone else noticing things getting different in the last week or so?
 
Ryanb said:
I forgot all about it until just now.
Click to expand...

Sorry, lol. I had to until I saw the news that the Circuit Court turned down the appeal. Supposedly the battle is not dead though. There seem to be issues about can States do their own thing about it.
 
I had a thread about this sometime back. My comments were based on the theory of fairness. But someone said they were confident that we wouldn't notice a change. I haven't yet.
 
With the strikedown states can pass their own rules on it. Which then turns into a big cluster for the multistate providers if they want to say we can throttle in MI, OH, NY but not KY, CA, FL. I can't imagine them trying to make some states neutral and others not. If states pass NN, then we will get it. Most likely whatever California passes.
 
EdFred said:
Most likely whatever California passes.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to think of an instance when following California's lead was a good idea. <=== said in my best South Park / China tone.
 
Last edited:
I finally just coughed up the money to get a VPN service earlier this year. Not totally convinced of the need for it at home but it's nice to have confidence that nobody can snoop while on public/hotel wifi.
 
As long as the millennials can watch Friends marathons on Netflix, that's the most important thing! :)

IBTL
 
Gerhardt said:
I'm trying to think of an instance when following California's lead was a good idea. <=== said in my best South Park / China tone.
Click to expand...

Prop 65 man! Label everything to the point where no one reads the warning labels. They require(d) people to ****ing label coffee! And we have idiots who will defend everything CA does, because, well, they are idiots.
 
mryan75 said:
Yeah, the seventh-largest economy in the world. We should really be looking into what Mississippi and Arkansas and Alabama are doing instead. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I guess we should follow China now since by PPP they are the largest economy, will pass us in GDP in the next few years. Let me know how that works out for you. double eye roll

You aren't helping your case of how you present yourself.
 
mryan75 said:
Yeah, the seventh-largest economy in the world. We should really be looking into what Mississippi and Arkansas and Alabama are doing instead. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I was hoping people would pick up on the humor with the reference to China and South Park. Maybe it was all in the delivery. I can be flat some days.
 
mryan75 said:
Yeah, the seventh-largest economy in the world. We should really be looking into what Mississippi and Arkansas and Alabama are doing instead. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If you mean keeping the electricity on, and not shutting it off to a million customers, then yes you should be following Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama!
 
cowman said:
I finally just coughed up the money to get a VPN service earlier this year. Not totally convinced of the need for it at home but it's nice to have confidence that nobody can snoop while on public/hotel wifi.
Click to expand...

Except the VPN company... Most of which are owned by Chinese :).... But yeah, i'm with you on that
 
It never really existed anyway. Ask me how long
a carrier can “investigate” why your circuit doesn’t work right.

Longer than you can remain solvent is the answer. And they’ll still be a carrier tomorrow and for the next 100 years.

Plus there’s not been any real significant evidence of backbone throttling. The backbone and everything on down has always been hideously oversubscribed however.

If the “tube” you paid for won’t carry your traffic, the fastest way to pretend it was caused by a big bad carrier is to pretend they throttled you. (Here’s looking at you, broke ass Netflix... LOL) Takes the pressure off while your crappy network planning and new orders with the carriers catch up so Wall Street doesn’t hand you your butt.

I can name three “national” ISPs who never paid their data center or bandwidth bills on time who only paid up when their service was cut off. Same crap, different decade.

Nobody has time to throttle things. Unless it’s dense wave division fiber, it was oversubscribed the day it was turned up. And if it wasn’t, the core routers were at 90% and needed replaced.
 
cowman said:
I finally just coughed up the money to get a VPN service earlier this year. Not totally convinced of the need for it at home but it's nice to have confidence that nobody can snoop while on public/hotel wifi.
Click to expand...

That just moves the target to monitoring everything that comes out of their concentration points, from the bad guy’s perspective.

All it’ll take is the VPN provider or their carrier missing a security patch at the edge gear. Which, happens more than most people think. It’s rarely automated. Too much risk a bad patch takes out too much traffic.
 
Cluemeister said:
If you mean keeping the electricity on, and not shutting it off to a million customers, then yes you should be following Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama!
Click to expand...

Ha! My power here in AR goes off practically every time the wind blows. Plus the largest utility provider in the state has botched their Smart Meter rollout. My neighbors bill went from $75 to $1800 due to faulty training for meter readers.

What’s nice is Arkansas allows municipal utility providers to offer internet and cable. Unfortunately, I’m stuck with Comcast at 2-3 Mbps while paying $140. I asked if I could dump my basic 10 channel cable and go straight Internet. The guy in the store laughed and said no. I’d have to cancel for three months then sign back up as a “new” customer.
 
ARFlyer said:
Ha! My power here in AR goes off practically every time the wind blows. Plus the largest utility provider in the state has botched their Smart Meter rollout. My neighbors bill went from $75 to $1800 due to faulty training for meter readers.

What’s nice is Arkansas allows municipal utility providers to offer internet and cable. Unfortunately, I’m stuck with Comcast at 2-3 Mbps while paying $140. I asked if I could dump my basic 10 channel cable and go straight Internet. The guy in the store laughed and said no. I’d have to cancel for three months then sign back up as a “new” customer.
Click to expand...

Our rural power co-op bought thousands of bad smart meters. Impressively the “smart” part works but the LCDs weren’t outdoor temperature rated. Brilliant. They can read my meter but I can’t. LOL.

I’m impressed I found someone with worse internet than me here, though. LOL. We finally got to 25 Mb/sec down via new Motorola Canopy gear on the roof pointed at the neighbor’s tower which hops to the provider’s tower in early Sept, but something happened around Oct 1st.

They’ll supposedly be out to fix it Wednesday.

765d746685af7a01156c5f53cdee58d2.jpg


I hope everyone is enjoying those “rural broadband” taxes on all their telecom bills. Nobody knows where the money goes, but it isn’t rural broadband builders. Hahaha.
 
It was all a scam anyway. Catchy names on garbage legislation, or regulations in this case, are abuses of government power.

"Neutrality" is just a buzzword used to convince suckers (us) to allow special interest groups to steal our money and infringe on our rights.
 
Gerhardt said:
I was hoping people would pick up on the humor with the reference to China and South Park. Maybe it was all in the delivery. I can be flat some days.
Click to expand...
Nah, I've never watched South Park. Sorry if I missed your reference.
 
EdFred said:
I guess we should follow China now since by PPP they are the largest economy, will pass us in GDP in the next few years. Let me know how that works out for you. double eye roll

You aren't helping your case of how you present yourself.
Click to expand...
Actually, quite interestingly, we are becoming more and more like China every day. Although that is another discussion for another day.
 
IK04 said:
It was all a scam anyway. Catchy names on garbage legislation, or regulations in this case, are abuses of government power.

"Neutrality" is just a buzzword used to convince suckers (us) to allow special interest groups to steal our money and infringe on our rights.
Click to expand...
Que? Net neutrality is what gave companies like Netflix, Facestealallyourinformationandsellittotherussians, Google, Amazon, eBay, etc., a chance in their infancy. And now all of these exact companies will use a lack of net neutrality to defend their dominance of the market. If you are a free market capitalist, overturning net neutrality is disastrous. It's literally exactly what the free markets crowd argues government SHOULD do: ensure a level playing field.
 
Cluemeister said:
If you mean keeping the electricity on, and not shutting it off to a million customers, then yes you should be following Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama!
Click to expand...

At least there is not 1 million people without electricity for 6 months after a hurricane like Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama.
 
denverpilot said:
Our rural power co-op bought thousands of bad smart meters. Impressively the “smart” part works but the LCDs weren’t outdoor temperature rated. Brilliant. They can read my meter but I can’t. LOL.

I’m impressed I found someone with worse internet than me here, though. LOL. We finally got to 25 Mb/sec down via new Motorola Canopy gear on the roof pointed at the neighbor’s tower which hops to the provider’s tower in early Sept, but something happened around Oct 1st.

They’ll supposedly be out to fix it Wednesday.

765d746685af7a01156c5f53cdee58d2.jpg


I hope everyone is enjoying those “rural broadband” taxes on all their telecom bills. Nobody knows where the money goes, but it isn’t rural broadband builders. Hahaha.
Click to expand...

I've been waiting on the upgrade to 25MB that's been "coming soon" for the past 4 years.
 
Net Neutrality is known by the state of California to cause cancer.

[FWIW, I'm in favor of net neutrality - @mryan75 nailed it in post 30.]
 
If you have a corporate tax id number, you can get business class service and a service level agreement from a corporate service provider into your house.
Service is measured in megaBYTES, not megabits.
This lets you do an end run around the local cable company.
In my area the cable company has a rock solid monopoly. Even Verizon can't sell FIOS here.
The prices are very competitive.
Just something to think about.
 
mryan75 said:
Que? Net neutrality is what gave companies like Netflix, Facestealallyourinformationandsellittotherussians, Google, Amazon, eBay, etc., a chance in their infancy. And now all of these exact companies will use a lack of net neutrality to defend their dominance of the market. If you are a free market capitalist, overturning net neutrality is disastrous. It's literally exactly what the free markets crowd argues government SHOULD do: ensure a level playing field.
Click to expand...

No, them paying their bills for the backbone connectivity did. There never has been neutrality and never will be at the carrier level. You pay, you get transported. Nobody sits around at any carrier putting in rate limiters on anyone or anything. The networks are all massively over-subscribed until you hit multi-wavelength fiber paths. If you need one of those to feed a service, like video, you’re paying massive money and the carrier isn’t throttling chit. Nobody’s got time for that.

Netflix started grousing when all of their circuits were full and they hadn’t geographically diversified enough about “neutrality” to hide their real problem from Wall Street. The carrier can’t say “no, your network design is full” because you don’t talk about customer circuits. So they just continued to provide what Netflix paid for and Netflix built out more, hurting their CAPEX numbers and also their operations numbers. Wall Street isn’t enthusiastic about them. Video transport is expensive and the world now wants 4K. Even if it’s not really 4K and compressed to hell.

Shepherd said:
If you have a corporate tax id number, you can get business class service and a service level agreement from a corporate service provider into your house.
Service is measured in megaBYTES, not megabits.
This lets you do an end run around the local cable company.
In my area the cable company has a rock solid monopoly. Even Verizon can't sell FIOS here.
The prices are very competitive.
Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Comcast doesn’t do service level agreements here anymore. Not even on our honest corporate location fiber service. What they did do for a while was offer better speeds and caps on the business side, even to residences, but it was bare data only, no TV. They’ve since just aligned most of it to be equal pricing and service. Which.. honestly for a cable company hasn’t been to bad. They’re very data centric and we’ve seen one major outage (core router, half of the metro out) in five years.

They built a very good data backbone to support their cell phone thing they do, Xfinity Cellular, which really just “steals” bandwidth overhead to every one of their customers with their WiFi router. Phone jumps between WiFi and Verizon’s network.

They also amazingly have excellent SIP service. They’re our primary provider for the call center and the only complaint I has was they didn’t used to work 24/7. This makes cut-overs very difficult. They also didn’t work weekends. They’ve changed to where they’ll assign an after hours tech to a cut-over or similar. Can’t do large scale telecom without after-hours. They figured it out. Took about three years of customer complaints. Mine included. Ha.

They don’t require any proof a business exists and didn’t even the products weren’t aligned. I made up a business name for my circuit at the old house. Back then business service was the only way to get a proper block of static public IPs. That might still be true. Not sure.
 
denverpilot said:
No, them paying their bills for the backbone connectivity did. There never has been neutrality and never will be at the carrier level. You pay, you get transported. Nobody sits around at any carrier putting in rate limiters on anyone or anything. The networks are all massively over-subscribed until you hit multi-wavelength fiber paths. If you need one of those to feed a service, like video, you’re paying massive money and the carrier isn’t throttling chit. Nobody’s got time for that.

Netflix started grousing when all of their circuits were full and they hadn’t geographically diversified enough about “neutrality” to hide their real problem from Wall Street. The carrier can’t say “no, your network design is full” because you don’t talk about customer circuits. So they just continued to provide what Netflix paid for and Netflix built out more, hurting their CAPEX numbers and also their operations numbers. Wall Street isn’t enthusiastic about them. Video transport is expensive and the world now wants 4K. Even if it’s not really 4K and compressed to hell.



Comcast doesn’t do service level agreements here anymore. Not even on our honest corporate location fiber service. What they did do for a while was offer better speeds and caps on the business side, even to residences, but it was bare data only, no TV. They’ve since just aligned most of it to be equal pricing and service. Which.. honestly for a cable company hasn’t been to bad. They’re very data centric and we’ve seen one major outage (core router, half of the metro out) in five years.

They built a very good data backbone to support their cell phone thing they do, Xfinity Cellular, which really just “steals” bandwidth overhead to every one of their customers with their WiFi router. Phone jumps between WiFi and Verizon’s network.

They also amazingly have excellent SIP service. They’re our primary provider for the call center and the only complaint I has was they didn’t used to work 24/7. This makes cut-overs very difficult. They also didn’t work weekends. They’ve changed to where they’ll assign an after hours tech to a cut-over or similar. Can’t do large scale telecom without after-hours. They figured it out. Took about three years of customer complaints. Mine included. Ha.

They don’t require any proof a business exists and didn’t even the products weren’t aligned. I made up a business name for my circuit at the old house. Back then business service was the only way to get a proper block of static public IPs. That might still be true. Not sure.
Click to expand...
You're looking at it from the opposite side that I am. I'm talking from the consumer side, not the provider side. Netflix made it because Spectrum couldn't have their own streaming service and block me from seeing Netflix because they are my world wide interwebs provider. That's what net neutrality refers to: that I, as a Spectrum customer, can access whatever I want, not what Spectrum allows me to access.
 
mryan75 said:
You're looking at it from the opposite side that I am. I'm talking from the consumer side, not the provider side. Netflix made it because Spectrum couldn't have their own streaming service and block me from seeing Netflix because they are my world wide interwebs provider. That's what net neutrality refers to: that I, as a Spectrum customer, can access whatever I want, not what Spectrum allows me to access.
Click to expand...

Spectrum never blocked anything. Netflix hung themselves with bad interconnectivty to Spectrum, and just crappy performance, last I checked.

Netflix runs in so many data centers it would actually be fairly hard to block them. All they have to do is roll out a new block of IPs in a virtual farm.

Their crash test and other tools they’ve open sourced are actually pretty neat. They’re hard to bring down. Decent engineering. They were just cash strapped and not paying bandwidth bills for a while and holding off on buildouts of new sites and circuits.
 
denverpilot said:
Spectrum never blocked anything. Netflix hung themselves with bad interconnectivty to Spectrum, and just crappy performance, last I checked.

Netflix runs in so many data centers it would actually be fairly hard to block them. All they have to do is roll out a new block of IPs in a virtual farm.

Their crash test and other tools they’ve open sourced are actually pretty neat. They’re hard to bring down. Decent engineering. They were just cash strapped and not paying bandwidth bills for a while and holding off on buildouts of new sites and circuits.
Click to expand...
That was just an example. I've never had, not heard of a problem with Netflix. I'm speaking in generalities about how net neutrality works.
 
My facebook feed was full of dire, apocalyptic predictions if "net neutrality" was overturned. Didn't happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top