Negotiating room for new Cessna/Cirrus and other buying tips

Stratagem

Stratagem

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Stratagem
Hi everyone.

Have really enjoyed reading the forums the last few years as I've gotten current again, picked up an instrument ticket, and hopefully will finish a commercial rating in the next few months. Just under 300 hrs now (mainly in C172's) and getting more confident flying in various types of weather. I have really enjoyed all of the insights, suggestions, and banter from all of you.

Now I'm looking at the next steps, a new or gently used aircraft purchase primarily for business purposes. Been doing lots of homework on all of the record keep, reporting, and other requirements for business use and think I can make it work.

In any case, primarily for tax reasons, it makes a lot of sense to consider a new aircraft. I'm looking for the ability to go up and down the east coast, as well as the occasional trip out to Idaho in the west. Looking for a 6 seater with a decent useful load to take 4 adults or 2 adults and 4 kids (understand the tax implications of this). After lots of looking I've been focusing down on a Cessna T206H or a Cirrus SR22T, although may move up to a twin engine in a few years. Price range is $500-900k.

Several questions for everyone:

First, if I do end up moving forward with a new aircraft what type of negotiating flexibility do I have with the manufacturer or dealer on price? Is it like a new car purchase where there is the "list price" with plenty of room to negotiate, or are the prices fairly stable? (Both for Cessna and Cirrus)

Any other new aircraft purchasing suggestions or lessons learned?

Is it worth engaging a broker for either a new or slightly used purchase?


Thanks again, really appreciate any insights you all might have.
 
A SR22 won't carry six legally... if you're serious about six seats have you looked at Saratogas?


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Yes, a little. Have flown Arrow's some and prefer Cessna type as opposed to Piper, but would consider it if it made sense.
 
The 'Toga and C206 sound like they're more practical for the mission if you're looking for a 6 seat configuration. The Arrow and 206H are nearly identical in their performance, so it's really just a matter of high or low wing preference. If I had a choice, I would point you into the direction of the SR22T, but with 6 people in mind, it doesn't fit the bill. Have you considered a Bo? Or even a C310?
 
Haven't looked too much at a Bonanza yet, been mainly focused on new for tax benefits, but flexible if there is a better option that makes sense.

I would prefer a 6 seater, but some flexibility here. SR22 really appeals to me for avionics, FIKI, and BRS. Not sure how hard of a transition it would be from 172's
 
Tip, don't buy new.

Second tip, learn more about planes, many of the newer airframes are not nearly as good as the older ones.
 
Don't buy new for cost reasons, or for technical or performance issues? In general I agree new is less of a value, unless you figure in all the depreciation write offs for business use. Then it seems like a much better value, but I could be wrong and I'm open to other opinions.

How are older airframes better? Solid aluminum vs composite, so a maintenance issue? Lifetime fatigue issue?
 
Also new Bonanzas, Cirruses, Pipers,Mooneys and Cessnas all have the same avionics....


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With exception of a 206, there s nothing in the piston offering that carry any weight.
 
This is a little bit over budget, but it would do what you want very well I think. Lot's of info in the article.
You might negotiate with them... who knows?

And if you don't like it you could give it to me.

http://www.flyingmag.com/we-fly-diamond-da62

edit: sorry.. missed the "in a few years" part.
but you know what they say.. buy your last plane first :)
 
The new Diamond DA 50 - VII is in the pipeline, not sure on your timeline. That is going to be a seven seat plane and based on the price of the DA 62 is likely to be in the $850K range. But with that budget, you can easily be looking at some older turboprops. The are Piper Meridians and even some TBM 700's in that price range, and performance wise they blow away and six seat piston.
 
I debated on answering since this is not my area of expertise in the field of AOA but here is my opinion.

I bought the T206H for a family of 5 over the SR22. I found that while I can legally carry all of us, I couldn't carry enough fuel for the legs that I wanted to take to get us there without fuel stops of leaving luggage out of the equation. I was burning a ton of fuel and traveling a lot slower than I was hoping. So after being talked into the T206H by my wife for the need to carry the entire family, it turns out that our teenager finally got his license and didn't want to go o the weekend trips with us anyway cause he was off with his friends. So I traded to the T206H in for a SR22 and my wife is wondering why I ever let her talk me in to the T206H.

The SR22 burns a lot less fuel, travels 30KTS faster which gets us there quicker and also means a lot less fuel, has about the same useful load as the T206H did, but most importantly to her, the way the low wing feels vs. the high wing in the air. We got rocked around in the 206 and in the same conditions, it is a very smooth flight in the SR22. She loves the new plane.

Don't buy for 10% of your mission, buy for 90% of your missions and then handle the exceptions.

Lastly, Cessna will negotiated that crap out of their planes because they are factory owned and they need to dump their inventory as Cirrus is beating their pants off. Cirrus will not negotiate their planes but you can negotiate some minor things like interior, options, maintenance, etc.. Cirrus builds based on order, with the exception of the occasional spec SR22T but it is simple supply vs. demand and they have more demand than supply so prices on new are pretty firm.
 
mulligan - really glad to see you chime in. I've followed a few of your posts over the years and knew you had recent experience in both planes. Would love to private chat or email a few questions about operating costs and your buying experience on both. Also interested in how interior of SR22 feels space wise vs 206. I haven't been in either yet but expect to take flights in the next month or so. I'm 6'5", but figure I can fit fairly well in either.

I've thought a lot about mission, and whether 6 seats are truly required. We have 4 kids and the oldest is 15. However, if I am using this mainly for business not sure how much I will be taking the whole crew. If there was a decent 206 or other rental option in the area with 6 seats I would probably be leaning towards an SR22 with rentals for the family trips.

I've also looked quite a bit at a DA62 (would love one of these but costs including operating costs are just a bit too high), Piper Meridian (not sure the useful load will be high enough, on the high end of price), and TBM700 a little (will operating costs on a turbine kill me?). Not sure I'm quite ready for a twin yet although I could certainly be talked into a DA62 if the price were a bit lower. Beautiful plane with decent performance and lots of room. Most of the turbo props scare me on price, particularly for maintenance and an engine replacement.
 
Clip4 said:
With exception of a 206, there s nothing in the piston offering that carry any weight.
Click to expand...

185
Maule
Helio
DHC2
GA8
210
Etc.

Also if you're talking 206, you want to look for a U206 with a 550, extensions and VGs.
 
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