Needs ideas for a math/science conference for girls.

HeatherCFI

HeatherCFI

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HeatherCFI
I have the opportunity to work with middle school girls for about an hour to teach them about careers in math/science. Obviously, I'd like to do something aviation related with them. Any ideas? I get a $30 budget, but I'd be willing to kick in some of my own cash. It also needs to be something active, where they are doing something. Not me just standing there talking to them. Maybe something with building an airplane, or how flight works. Ideas are welcome!!
 
really easy and cheap to demonstrate bernoullis principle with a hair dryer and a pingpong ball.
 
Showing bernoulli with a shop vac (set to blow) and a small ball or balloon is always cool. Maybe giving them a "somebody's lost" problem and let them use time x speed to determine the distance of the radius for the search area.

Edit: I see great minds think alike, but us non-glider types always want more power!
 
Showing off bernoulli would be a fun demonstration in a talk but then you need to go into something that allows them to play with the principals. Building Paper airplanes?
 
Some dry ice and foam and you could do a wind tunnel and show airfoil shapes, even how angle-of-attack induces airflow separation at stall.
 
Use some performance charts, graphs and tables to show how math is used for navigation, flight planning, etc.

Someone here or on the Red Board used Excel to graph their oil analysis results to use it in trend analysis. Fascinating!
 
Have them fold paper airplanes and then have them describe how they relate to real airplanes. Do it right and you can tie in aspect ration and center of gravity.
 
Try Edmund scientific for ideas- they have lots of kits (search for kit)
http://scientificsonline.com/
Fisher Scientific also has similar kits, but one needs to spend the time digging for them- an example is:
http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/PRODUCTDETAIL?prodcutdetail='prod'&productId=692478&catalogId=29104&matchedCatNo=S63065&pos=5&catCode=RE_SC&endecaSearchQuery=%23store%3DScientific%23N%3D0%23rpp%3D15%23Nao%3D30&fromCat=yes&keepSessionSearchOutPut=true&fromSearch=Y&searchKey=forensics&highlightProductsItemsFlag=Y

Some of the kits are fairly inexpensive.

Having answered the question, I question guiding the next generation into a science career- so many of the chemistry jobs have been outsourced to China, India, and other countries lately. The largest manufacturer of pharmaceutical compounds isn't Merck any more- it's Wuxi in China- they make compounds for Merck, J&J, Wyeth, GSK, etc. Literally thousands of chemists in the US got outsourced over the past 2 years...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I question guiding the next generation into a science career- so many of the chemistry jobs have been outsourced to China, India, and other countries lately. The largest manufacturer of pharmaceutical compounds isn't Merck any more- it's Wuxi in China- they make compounds for Merck, J&J, Wyeth, GSK, etc. Literally thousands of chemists in the US got outsourced over the past 2 years...
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What career should we guide the next generation into?
 
jesse said:
What career should we guide the next generation into?
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Good question...I haven't seen anything that pays reasonably well that management isn't trying to outsource. I wish I could be more constructive.

Probably entrepreneurship- but that's not for everyone.

With information transfer and transportation being easier and cheaper than anytime in history, it is easy to move jobs to low cost areas. Hopefully it will settle down in a few years.
 
I think someone (Sportys?) has an E6B simulator, to demonstrate how you can solve mathematical problems using something OTHER than a calculator. That may only get the math geeks excited, and leave the science geeks uninterested, but it could be interesting for some. (And I use the term geeks in a good way - my daughter is a science geek, always has been, and is now doing a college internship with a large animal veterinarian.)
 
Get 30 one dollar bills and place them on a table, tell them it represents $3000. Then tell them the shop vac represents an airplane, turn it on and suck up the money in about a second.

Now they know what aviation is like.
 
Never thought of graphs and charts as something that would go over big with young girls.
 
Everskyward said:
You use math to do this? :confused:
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Very very simple math. I always get a kick out of people telling kids to take lots of math classes if they want to be a pilot...When most middle school kids do more advanced math than generally used by pilots.
 
jesse said:
Very very simple math. I always get a kick out of people telling kids to take lots of math classes if they want to be a pilot...When most middle school kids do more advanced math than generally used by pilots.
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True dat, but it least it shows a pratical and FUN application.
 
jesse said:
Very very simple math. I always get a kick out of people telling kids to take lots of math classes if they want to be a pilot...When most middle school kids do more advanced math than generally used by pilots.
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Exactly, I don't think you need much past arithmetic. It's the same with science. You don't need an in-depth knowledge or love of either to fly airplanes. Very elementary physics is really all you need but even that is mostly common sense and many people don't realize that it's physics they are studying. That's not to say that we shouldn't encourage girls, and boys for that matter, to be interested in science.

The one very simple demonstration that I thought was cool when I was a kid was taking a dollar bill and blowing across the top of it to make it rise up.
 
Everskyward said:
Exactly, I don't think you need much past arithmetic. It's the same with science. You don't need an in-depth knowledge or love of either to fly airplanes. Very elementary physics is really all you need but even that is mostly common sense and many people don't realize that it's physics they are studying. That's not to say that we shouldn't encourage girls, and boys for that matter, to be interested in science.
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Actually, you definitely need algebra and trigonometry, which are beyond arithmetic. Especially if you're going for the commercial. But unless you're planning on doing engineering work, calculus, dif eq, etc. aren't things that are used.
Everskyward said:
The one very simple demonstration that I thought was cool when I was a kid was taking a dollar bill and blowing across the top of it to make it rise up.
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With inflation, that only works with a $5 and above note, now! :) But yeah, that's a good demo.

I think NASA has some good modules on their website. Search "girl scout aviation day" here on PoA and I think you'll find some other ideas.
 
gprellwitz said:
Actually, you definitely need algebra and trigonometry, which are beyond arithmetic. Especially if you're going for the commercial.
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I'm trying to think of a time where I use algebra and/or trigonometry. Really I can't remember ever using sines and cosines in studying flying at all. I vaguely remember taking trig in school though. :redface:
 
Heather: Check our NSPE.org. They may have some freebies you could use. Could you combine the talk somehow with an airplane ride later? That might stimulate interest.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm trying to think of a time where I use algebra and/or trigonometry. Really I can't remember ever using sines and cosines in studying flying at all. I vaguely remember taking trig in school though. :redface:
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You had the opportunity to use trig when solving wind triangles...of course it isn't taught that way.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm trying to think of a time where I use algebra and/or trigonometry. Really I can't remember ever using sines and cosines in studying flying at all. I vaguely remember taking trig in school though. :redface:
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Use the unit circle to demonstrate trigonometric relationships geometrically.
Similar triangles scale to solve different problems.

Unit circle shows how the angles change a multiplier from 0 to 1.
30 deg = 0.5
45 deg = 0.707
60 deg = 0.866
90 deb = 1.0
It doesn't matter if it is sine or cosine, it is just the relationship of the position and the magnitude. With knowledge of only the above four relationships it is easy to approximate times, distances or speeds.

Edit: Apparently, everyone knows how much 90 deb is.
 
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Clark1961 said:
You had the opportunity to use trig when solving wind triangles...of course it isn't taught that way.
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Wind triangles is one use of trig. Another is slant distance from a radio beacon.
For algebra, think about shifting centers of gravity with changing payload. Or any of the time/distance/fuel burn rate problems.
 
gprellwitz said:
Wind triangles is one use of trig.
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Wind triangles have their basis in trig but when was the last time you pulled out a trig table to solve one? I never have. That's what the graph is for. They can be taught to someone who doesn't know any trig by drawing them out and measuring the sides.

gprellwitz said:
Another is slant distance from a radio beacon.
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Have you used this calculation in a practical way? In flight? In any case it's a pretty easy concept to understand without knowing trig.

gprellwitz said:
For algebra, think about shifting centers of gravity with changing payload. Or any of the time/distance/fuel burn rate problems.
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I guess that is algebra, but very elementary algebra.

My point is that you don't need any kind of higher math to learn how to fly an airplane. Saying that a strong math and or science background is necessary probably only discourages a certain percentage of people from trying to learn.

I just remembered the last time I was confronted with some math problems. A little over a year ago the company I fly for implemented a personality/intelligence test for new hires (all new hires, not just pilots). They also decided to give it to people who applied for an internal promotion which I wanted. Holy cow, there were fractions! And you weren't allowed to use a calculator! The last time I thought about fractions I was in grade school and judging from the comments of some of the other pilots it was the same for them. I must have done OK though because I got the position. :dunno:
 
I never took anything past 9th grade general math (which i paid no attention to..no idea why I passed) and I do just fine.
 
Everskyward said:
Wind triangles have their basis in trig but when was the last time you pulled out a trig table to solve one? I never have. That's what the graph is for. They can be taught to someone who doesn't know any trig by drawing them out and measuring the sides.

Have you used this calculation in a practical way? In flight? In any case it's a pretty easy concept to understand without knowing trig.

I guess that is algebra, but very elementary algebra.

My point is that you don't need any kind of higher math to learn how to fly an airplane. Saying that a strong math and or science background is necessary probably only discourages a certain percentage of people from trying to learn.

I just remembered the last time I was confronted with some math problems. A little over a year ago the company I fly for implemented a personality/intelligence test for new hires (all new hires, not just pilots). They also decided to give it to people who applied for an internal promotion which I wanted. Holy cow, there were fractions! And you weren't allowed to use a calculator! The last time I thought about fractions I was in grade school and judging from the comments of some of the other pilots it was the same for them. I must have done OK though because I got the position. :dunno:
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I use fractions all the time when cooking! Changing the yield of recipes, calculating whether a particular concoction will fit in a 2L container, etc.

I agree that you aren't using every little bit that you learned, but having a grounding in algebra and trigonometry at least lets you know that something like Pythagoras' theorem is going to be helpful, and judge the validity (and the limits!) of the rules of thumb that our flight instructors give us, and maybe even come up with some ourselves.
 
If the next generation doesn't go into the science and engineering jobs, then how do you expect eployers to do anything BUT outsource those jobs?

We need far more scientists and engineers. We don't have enough.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm trying to think of a time where I use algebra and/or trigonometry. Really I can't remember ever using sines and cosines in studying flying at all. I vaguely remember taking trig in school though. :redface:
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When you calculate cross wind component or crab angle/heading needed to stay on course due to the wind effects, what branch of math are you using? Seems like there are some trig functions needed there. I know calculators and E6Bs do it for you but I believe people should learn manual basics before relegating everthing to the machines.

Knowing a couple of sines makes it pretty easy to judge the cross wind component on landing. .5 for 30 degrees so if the wind is about 30 degrees off of runway heading, the cross wind component is going to be about 1/2. Sine of 45 is .707 so for a wind near 45 degrees, the crosswind is going to be about 3/4. I am amazed at the number of pilots that have to find their little whiz wheel to come up with that or that think that if the wind is half way between a head wind and a cross wind (45 deg.) then the cross wind component must be 1/2.
 
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Graueradler said:
When you calculate cross wind component or crab angle/heading needed to stay on course due to the wind effects, what branch of math are you using? Seems like there are some trig functions needed there. I know calculators and E6Bs do it for you but I believe people should learn manual basics before relegating everthing to the machines.
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If you are really going to go back to basics all you need to do is draw out the wind triangle and measure the sides. That concept is much simpler and more understandable than looking at a trig table.

Graueradler said:
Knowing a couple of sines makes it pretty easy to judge the cross wind component on landing. .5 for 30 degrees so if the wind is about 30 degrees off of runway heading, the cross wind component is going to be about 1/2. Sine of 45 is .707 so for a wind near 45 degrees, the crosswind is going to be about 3/4. I am amazed at the number of pilots that have to find their little whiz wheel to come up with that or that think that if the wind is half way between a head wind and a cross wind (45 deg.) then the cross wind component must be 1/2.
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But that's just a handy-to-know rule of thumb and you can learn it in a couple minutes without taking a trig class. Besides, in practical terms the wind is not necessarily what they give to you. It's always changing and you respond to it by looking at what the airplane is doing, not doing calculations in your head.

Again, I'm not saying that we don't need to encourage kids to take math and science classes. We need people in the techinical fields. There are so many good reasons for a math and science education that we don't need to make up other reasons. Flying is not so much an academic pursuit. Of course you need to have some educational background but the things that end up being more important, in my view, are practical, not theoretical. We do need the theoretical people though, and that kind of job is probably much more rewarding and intellectually stimulating than driving an airplane around the sky.
 
Or Leslie, our Chicago statistician?

Oh yeah, statistics. Another field that's helpful to at least understand, so you can debunk all the crud the media tries to feed us!
 
And to get back to trig and other "beyond arithmetic" math... Even if you don't need a trig table to work the problems, the understanding you get by learning trig (and calc and physics and stats and thermogoddamics and proofs) really help you as an aviatior. As an IT geek, I rarely have to use ANY of the math and science I took in school (or the music stuff either), but the rigor and logic it imposed on the way I think helps me every day, especially when I have a tough problem to solve and I need to whip out the scientific method and start breaking it down into testable pieces.

Come to think of it, all that stuff helped when the Coast Guard sent me to Physician Assistant school, and later when they sent me to FLETC. The ability to analyze logically and formally helps in everything, and it's amazing to me how many folks don't have the ability because they were never taught the methods.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If the next generation doesn't go into the science and engineering jobs, then how do you expect eployers to do anything BUT outsource those jobs?

We need far more scientists and engineers. We don't have enough.
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Yep- tell that to all the chemists let go from the chemical industry.

I know something about chemistry- I can't make an educated statement about employment in other areas of science and engineering.

15,000 jobs lost last year alone (1), 4,700 from the pharmaceutical industry. The chemical industry as a whole has been losing jobs since 1981. The jobs were lost due to outsourcing, overseas competitors, and productivity gains. At least another 4,000 jobs were lost this year (2). This doesn't sound like much but there never were more than ~800,000 chemists in the USA (peak in 1981). A lot of jobs were lost in 2007 as well but I don't have data on that year.

This will continue as long as products and information can be exchanged easily, and as long as well educated people in other parts of the world are willing to work for less money. Right now, there is a glut of chemists in the USA, although the USA is still producing them at the universities.

The USA did the same thing to Europe in the late 1800's and early 1900's; two world wars accelerated the process- I'm not blaming anyone.

(1) Chemical & Engineering News, 87(3), January 19, 2009
(2) Chemical & Engineering News, 87(28), July 6, 2009
 
TMetzinger said:
And to get back to trig and other "beyond arithmetic" math... Even if you don't need a trig table to work the problems, the understanding you get by learning trig (and calc and physics and stats and thermogoddamics and proofs) really help you as an aviatior. As an IT geek, I rarely have to use ANY of the math and science I took in school (or the music stuff either), but the rigor and logic it imposed on the way I think helps me every day, especially when I have a tough problem to solve and I need to whip out the scientific method and start breaking it down into testable pieces.
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I can see that I am in the minority here so I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I took trig, calculus and statistics in college and I don't see how it helps me to fly on a day to day basis. I've forgotten virtually all of it anyway. I think that being a pilot requires a broad general knowledge of a lot of semi-scientific things but they are mostly practical applications. You need to be able to understand the basics of weather, systems to a schematic level and very elementary physics and aerodynamics. I guess maybe even that much science might be intimidating but I'm not a great judge of that. Pilots do need to tip their hats to the many scientific and mathematical minds around them though. These are the really smart people who predict the weather, design the airplanes, the avionics, the navaids and the airspace system among other things.
 
Mari,

My point isn't that you conciously think about trig or any of the other stuff in your day to day life, but rather the fact that you did take the time to learn the subjects informs and enhances your understanding of the concepts required for flight.
 
TMetzinger said:
My point isn't that you conciously think about trig or any of the other stuff in your day to day life, but rather the fact that you did take the time to learn the subjects informs and enhances your understanding of the concepts required for flight.
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Everything you study enhances your understanding of something and I'm not as anti-education as I probably sound. Still I don't think that advanced math, including trig is necessary to be a successful pilot. I have known great pilots who have never taken trig, let alone set foot in a college.

Even if you have a lot of book smarts it doesn't necessarily follow that you have a lot of common sense. I have known (and flown) with people like this. When it comes to flying an airplane I would lean towards the person that has more common sense.
 
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