NASA Shuttle Landing Facility

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JC150

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JC150
Has anyone here done the low approach to TTS? I'm flying down to Key West from Boston and I've always wanted to try the low approach and figured I'd ask if anyone had some pointers. A couple questions I have:

1) Is it better to file IFR to TTS and request the low approach or should I plan to go VFR and ask for the approach?

2) Is it true you can't descend below the published mins while over the runway even if VFR?

3)Can you just request to do a visual approach to a low pass or do you have to do the full procedure?

Thanks!
 
I was riding right seat when we got to make the low approach and buzz the assembly building so don't know all the answers to your questions but we were defiantly VFR and were as close to touchdown as you could get without making contact. Helped that the PIC knew the controllers though!...need to see if I can find those pics.
 
When I was a student pilot my instructor and I got a NASA air tour. The controller turned us to headings and told us what we were looking at....shuttle assembly building....launch pads.... and we saw the tractor after taking a space shuttle to a launch pad.

A flight down the shuttle runway the last part. We were VFR and had to stay 500 AGL but it was a fantastic flight. That runway looks mighty big from the cockpit of a C-152.

Another time I was doing a night solo and was about a mile from the restricted area and watched a night launch. Very impressive to say the least.

This was in the early 90s, well before 9/11. I don't know if they still do flight seeing but hopefully someone else will know.
 
I've done the low pass over the shuttle landing facility, just went VFR kept west of the Indian River until around 10 miles out and contacted the tower, asked if a low pass was possible, the controller could not have been more helpful gave me vectors in and permission to overfly the runway at a minimum of 100'
Once I had completed the flypast he advised me to climb out and keep west to stay clear of the restricted Canaveral airspace, and also advided me to keep an eye on the Heli's that were around Kennedy Space Centre.
All in all a good memorable experience to see where some space history was made...quite a sureal feeling when you are on the glide slope knowing who had previously been in the same position...

I understand the tower is only open Monday to Friday, so weekend is a free for all and gets quite busy ...


 
Did it IFR coming out of Patrick AFB. Just asked approach if we could do the GPS approach and they let us. Didn't have any restrictions on how low we could go as long as we didn't touch down, but then again, the tower was closed because it was the weekend. You could probably do it VFR.

Update: This was in the summer of 2013
 
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I've done it twice back in the 90s and actually landed there once in 2004. I'd heard that they don't allow the low approaches anymore but maybe they started again.
 
With commercial leases on the property these days it wouldn't surprise me to see it become public.
 
I did it in 2013 VFR. Descended to 2' agl, flew the length of the runway. Cool diversion when flying along the FLA coast.
 
I did it a couple of years ago in an Eclipse Jet. You're supposed to stay at mins, but who can tell?

We did it VFR and just asked for it. It was no big deal. Really cool thing to do.
 
Henning said:
With commercial leases on the property these days it wouldn't surprise me to see it become public.
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No, it will remain PPR. There is not only one customer, and those customers have to be coordinated. Everything from NASA T38s, to .gov business flights to NASCAR doing "straight line testing," and now rockets doing landing tests.

There are also no public facilities on the site, and even though it is now being leased to/managed by a private company, since it is on Federal Facility, you have to be badged to access it.

That's not saying the public can't use the runway, but you have to come up with a valid reason to use it that can't be satisfied by other airports, and you have to "pay the piper" to use it.

I was one of those customers doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3D9m5zhhF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv2GoYp8Zaw

Listen to the ATIS and CTAF before overflying after business hours, people may still be using the SLF.

One evening we paid to have the tower stay open past sunset to do non-eye-safe Class-IV laser testing. We were at the departure end of RWY33 pointed NW, and tower cleared a Twin to do a low approach on RWY33 (which was fine) and to turn before mid-field to avoid us lasing him. We were given the heads-up by tower, and were watching him and he ignored the turn-away instructions and flew right over us. We had to kill the laser experiment before he overflew us and had to start over again. The twin got an earful from tower with a response of "I wanted to see what was going on at the end of the runway" (we were lit up at the time).

There could also be random people like me on the runway taking a picture of stuff on the runway:

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--Carlos V.
 

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Cool stuff. So it looks like you have a limited vector nozzle and then a set of top thrusters to keep it balanced?
 
I just flew over the remnants of the Shuttle runway on the dry lake bed at Edwards AFB a couple of days ago, though I had to stay over 4,500' AGL. The markings are fading in spots.

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Henning said:
Cool stuff. So it looks like you have a limited vector nozzle and then a set of top thrusters to keep it balanced?
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Nope. It's all inverted pendulum on the nozzle. There are "roll" thrusters to keep it aligned down the flight path. But in rocketry, "roll" is along the thrust vector, so it would be "twist" or "yaw" along the downtrack flight path.

I didn't work on the vehicle (Morpheus) itself. I worked on the terrain sensing, hazard avoidance, hazard relative navigation stuff. (ALHAT). The big scanning scary laser and associated computing behind it.

Pilawt said:
I just flew over the remnants of the Shuttle runway on the dry lake bed at Edwards AFB a couple of days ago, though I had to stay over 4,500' AGL. The markings are fading in spots.
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It always looks like that. They refresh it once in a while, when the place gets busy, but it was not marked up specifically for the shuttle. The shuttle usually landed on the paved 04R/22L runway.

If I remember correctly, only the first few missions landed on the lakebed.

*google...* 19 on the lakebed, 35 on the concrete runways. All but 1 of the Enterprise flight tests were on the lakebed.

--Carlos V.
 
Holy smokes... I never would have guessed that was even allowed! This just got added to my bucket list--along with the NYC Hudson corridor. Found a few videos of it on the intertubes:


and with ATC calls...

 
johnxreid said:
along with the NYC Hudson corridor.
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The Hudson trip is pretty cool too! And easy.

I'd like to hit up Dade-Collier(KTNT) out in the glades. You'd probably have the whole place to yourself.
 
If the tower is closed and the restricted area is not hot, could you technically just fly down the runway without talking to anyone?
 
JC150 said:
If the tower is closed and the restricted area is not hot, could you technically just fly down the runway without talking to anyone?
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Listen to, and announce on the CTAF (as long as you've listened to the ATIS beforehand).

The users of the SLF are required to self-announce on the CTAF VHF after-hours.

Though I don't remember any non-official traffic after-hours in the 12 weeks I was TDY there.

--Carlos "had to bring my personal transceiver" V.
 
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My buddy and I are gonna be flying down the east coast this summer and had planned to overfly the area since he's a huge NASA fan. I had no idea you could do this. He'll be jumping out of his seat!
 
JC150 said:
If the tower is closed and the restricted area is not hot, could you technically just fly down the runway without talking to anyone?
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I'm not sure about legally, but I think it'd be really bad idea. They do all sorts of things on and around that runway (see some of the above posts) that would be bad news to get in the middle of.

I've done the low pass once before 9/11 (as a passenger, pre pilot training) and several times since the shuttle stopped flying. It was prohibited airspace from shortly after 9/11 until the shuttle program ended. During the week (tower open) it's a piece of cake. The controllers have been friendly and accommodating. VFR they will clear you to some floor altitude, most commonly 500', but I've been cleared to 200' at least once.

On the weekends it is highly recommended to talk to Orlando Approach first. They'll know if anybody's hot or if anybody is doing an instrument approach.

Also be aware of X21 (Dunn Airpark) just across the river. They have an active commercial sky diving operation and a fair amount of experimental and ultra light traffic. Also, KTIX (Spacecoast Executive) a little further south, very active helicopter flight school.

When I take passengers, I usually try to use runway 15 since the passengers get a better view of the space center our their side.

I was looking for some pictures, but they are hiding somewhere on this Mac. Effectively. I'll see about posting some later.

PM me if you want to discuss. I do this fairly often.

John
 
jsstevens said:
I'm not sure about legally, but I think it'd be really bad idea. They do all sorts of things on and around that runway (see some of the above posts) that would be bad news to get in the middle of.
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Stuff that needs the airspace or is a danger to the airspace is supposed to NOTAM activate the R-space with 24 hour notice.

But don't count on it.

--Carlos V.
 
I'll be stopping somewhere in Jacksonville or Daytona Beach for gas before heading to Key West. Should I file 2 separate IFR plans? One to TTS and the other to EYW? Or just 1 IFR plan with the approach fixes in the route and my request in the remarks section?

jsstevens, when you do the Runway 15 approach do they allow you to fly the published missed? That would give a fantastic view of the space center.
 
JC150 said:
I'll be stopping somewhere in Jacksonville or Daytona Beach for gas before heading to Key West. Should I file 2 separate IFR plans? One to TTS and the other to EYW? Or just 1 IFR plan with the approach fixes in the route and my request in the remarks section?
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Since you just want to shoot the approach to a missed, one flight plan should suffice.
 
Unbeliever said:
There could also be random people like me on the runway taking a picture of stuff on the runway:

attachment.php


--Carlos V.
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That photo just makes me sad. :(

Shuttle was such a huge part of my dreams of flight as a kid and to see our manned programs just go to the trash can bums me out.

I recently learned that all the Challenger debris was just unceremoniously dumped down a Titan hole at Canaveral after the investigations were over, and capped over with concrete. I never knew that. Such a sad way to end that ship's service.

They maintain a secured and organized room on a floor of the VAB with all of Columibia's remains. Amazing how much of her was recovered. They think there's still 3500 pieces of her on the bottom of Lake Nacadoches though.

I wonder if the cross the old rancher erected at the country road crossroads where the first human remains from Columbia were found, is still there. Would be an interesting side trip in a car to go see it. The remains all were found in about half a square mile. The cabin held together pretty well, just like Challenger, but unlike Challenger it eventually came apart.
 
denverpilot said:
That photo just makes me sad. :(

Shuttle was such a huge part of my dreams of flight as a kid and to see our manned programs just go to the trash can bums me out.

I recently learned that all the Challenger debris was just unceremoniously dumped down a Titan hole at Canaveral after the investigations were over, and capped over with concrete. I never knew that. Such a sad way to end that ship's service.

They maintain a secured and organized room on a floor of the VAB with all of Columibia's remains. Amazing how much of her was recovered. They think there's still 3500 pieces of her on the bottom of Lake Nacadoches though.

I wonder if the cross the old rancher erected at the country road crossroads where the first human remains from Columbia were found, is still there. Would be an interesting side trip in a car to go see it. The remains all were found in about half a square mile. The cabin held together pretty well, just like Challenger, but unlike Challenger it eventually came apart.
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The program ending was sad in and of itself, but actually having a physical spot to visit and see where it all ended is even more sad for some reason.

I've seen the Challenger accident on video and been forced to re-read about it and analyze it and write papers on it too much. It was a brutal thing to watch for the first time and even more brutal to find out that they were desperately trying to fly the command capsule all the way down. :nonod:
 
In some ways the STS was the end to manned programs. The shuttle launched and retrieved sats and serviced the ISS but it was one limb on the tree of plenty. The money hungry STS went far to preclude the viability of other programs (we're talking manned here).

There remains one manned program and that is the ISS. But lacking the means to service the ISS except through partners means it too will fall off the tracks. ISSS is a path to the future. But it reminds me of the ghost cities in China.

What Denver said about the shuttle I would say of the Apollo program. Now that was excitement! My perspective is STS killed manned space exploration. Since STS, exploration is in the realm of the drones.
 
When we went down to Florida touring the state, we simply asked approach if we could do a low approach at the Shuttle Landing Facility on our way to Titusville. NASA Tower was very accommodating and seemed to be happy to have someone to talk to. Cleared to fly over the runway no lower than 100' AGL, then continued on to our fuel stop at TTS. At least one plane would ask for it every time we flew in the vicinity of it, so it is fairly popular with aviating tourists. It's worth it!
 
One of my relatives via marriage (sister in law's brother) is an Astronaut. I feel both excited and bad for him, unless something changes.

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/fischer-jack.html

We don't see him often. Well, ever. He's a busy dude and the family on that side is super busy too, as are we. We saw him at some large family gatherings about 10-15 years ago. Good egg. Time flies.
 
JC150 said:
I'll be stopping somewhere in Jacksonville or Daytona Beach for gas before heading to Key West. Should I file 2 separate IFR plans? One to TTS and the other to EYW? Or just 1 IFR plan with the approach fixes in the route and my request in the remarks section?

jsstevens, when you do the Runway 15 approach do they allow you to fly the published missed? That would give a fantastic view of the space center.
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I was always VFR so I never asked. I just did a crosswind departure and followed the bridge back across to Titusville.

John
 
denverpilot said:
That photo just makes me sad. :(
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This is what made me sad:

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That's the Shuttle/SCA mate/demate gantry being nibbled away during disassembly. It was completely gone a week later.

--Carlos V.
 

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KTTS flight of 4.

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Here's a couple of mine. Used iPad so quality is not the best.


John
 

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When I did a tour of KSC I asked a guy about landing there and he said I wouldn't want to. He was telling me they did a runway surface texture that chews up tires fiercely.
 
Henning said:
When I did a tour of KSC I asked a guy about landing there and he said I wouldn't want to. He was telling me they did a runway surface texture that chews up tires fiercely.
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Funny, that's what the approach controller mentioned the first time I did an overflight. I figured a wingspan height was good enough.
 
Brad Z said:
Funny, that's what the approach controller mentioned the first time I did an overflight. I figured a wingspan height was good enough.
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IIRC he told me the Space Shuttle tires one landing.
 
I worked at KSC for a few years and was in the department that maintained the PAPIs for the SLF. I had a lot of fun there.

The surface was heavily grooved to promote drainage and traction. I'm not sure what it would do to tires but it didn't look friendly.

I spent more of my time in the VAB, the LCC, and at the launch pads than the SLF and I'm happy to answer any questions I can about the place.
 
denverpilot said:
This guy did a low approach, I guess...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/gWAavCjVQvM
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I was there for that run. You can see our landing/Hazard field and some support equipment at 0:51, one of the launch pads at 0:53, and they switched to the internal camera view before the second launch pad went by.

You can see the surface grooving close up in the last pic in my post #11 in this thread.

--Carlos V.
 
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