[NA] Toyota Highlander Hybrid?

[Big Bird]

That $4k (today) would be the end user cost.

The warranty info provided DOES contain some suggestive information, however, that I think you're overlooking. An 8 year warranty *suggests* to me, anyway, that the manuf. EXPECTS the electric motor and battery system to last for at LEAST 8 years before major repairs are required. After all - since when do auto manuf's warranty stuff beyond the period they EXPECT it to last?

I was inquiring about environmental/financial costs for disposal/replacement.

The maintenance plan, by the way, for the hybrid is pretty much the same as for a non-hybrid. I saw nothing on my initial scan of the long term maintenance plan that suggested any new regular adjustments/replacements were required.

I have a friend who flies a twin. That's an airplane with two propulsion systems, similar in that way to a hybrid. The aircraft engine manual defines a number of specified maintenance requirements. It does not convey the need to perform those requirements for both systems; that is inferred. Thus, without being specific to both aircraft power systems, maintenance is required for both. Generally, this will increase the costs over the life of the system. Same goes for the hybrid, IMHO.

One would assume that those warranteed components would need replacing at about the 8 year/xxxmiles point. What then happens to the discarded components? At what cost for the disposal?

One needs only look at the spent nuke fuel disposal bill that is piling up to glimpse an example of some really large "unaccounted" costs for a taxpayer subsidized industry. I look at battery disposal in a similar, tho less toxic or expensive, light. The point is that, just like the nuke industry, hybrid hype is not accounting for anything except for direct operating costs. The are marketing the upside while ignoring potential downside. I'd like somebody to talk about the downside.

As I mentioned, we've driven both the Highlander and Lexus versions and liked them both. I thought the Highlander had better visibility, especially out the rear. Both are clearly well built autos. I'm sure you will enjoy the new ride

 

[gismo]

With an 8 yr warranty, it wouldn't surprise me if the residual value took a very sharp drop sometime during the 7th year, especially if gas is considered to be relatively cheap that year. Is there a mileage cap as well?

 

[inav8r]

3 yr/ 36k bumper to bumper
5 yr/ 60k drive train and corrosion
8 yr/100k on the hybrid system (motor, battery)

With an 8 yr warranty, it wouldn't surprise me if the residual value took a very sharp drop sometime during the 7th year, especially if gas is considered to be relatively cheap that year. Is there a mileage cap as well?

Yep... Sure is.

 

[bbchien]

With an 8 yr warranty, it wouldn't surprise me if the residual value took a very sharp drop sometime during the 7th year, especially if gas is considered to be relatively cheap that year. Is there a mileage cap as well?

Heck, that happens with my FORD with the seven year warranty. Fix or Dispose Daily.

 

[Henning]

I didn't know that Lexus used British electrical systems.

Len

Dang it, you owe me a freakin keyboard. "Lucas...Prince of Darkness" British Leyland electrical systems kept me eating through some hard times. BTW, why isn't there a "Coke blowing out the nose" emoticon?

 

[Anthony]

I didn't know that Lexus used British electrical systems.

Len

I didn't see this until Henning highlighted it, but being a former MG owner (I had two of them) I can attest to the Lucas Prince of Darkness moniker is absolutely justified. I miss the little buggers though, except when it rains.

 

[Greebo]

Follow up: Fillup info.

I've put a little notebook in the hybrid to keep track of gas mileage info. On the first fillup since buying the car (not counting the fillup at 25 miles on the odomotor after we left the lot) I came up with a calculated MPG of 24.5 (based on 25 miles to the mileage at fill up) vs the car's reported 25 MPG (based on all but the first 3 miles on the odometer). Approximately 265 miles on 10.75 or so gallons of gas (going from memory) and still had more than 1/4 tank left.

So far on this tank, now that the trip odometer and mpg tracker are in synch with the last fill up and I'm running at 27 MPG. Not bad for a 6 cyl SUV.

I won't post at every fillup, but I will post periodically with updates for as long as I remember to keep track.

 

[Bill]

As a former suburban owner I thought I'd never be saing this but I like a Mazda.

Remember, the Tribute is nothing but a re-badged Ford Escape. LIkewise, the Mazda 3 (and the small S40 Volvo) are re-badged Ford Foci. The new Ford 500? A re-badged top of the line Volvo S80 with Ford engine and tranny.

They're all crossbreeds anymore.

 

[poadeleted3]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/carreviews/06/20/toyota_highlander_hybrid/index.html

 

[Greebo]

Good review. I'd generally agree with it.

 

[sere]

The Toyota is not a full hybrid, only the Ford Escape is.

 

[MSmith]

The Toyota is not a full hybrid, only the Ford Escape is.

What definition of full hybrid are you using?

If I remember correctly, Ford licensed the Prius technology for the Escape. The Highlander is using a newer-generation version of the same technology.

 

[Greebo]

The Toyota is not a full hybrid, only the Ford Escape is.

No.

Full hybrids use a gasoline engine as the primary source of power, and an electric motor provides additional power when needed.
In addition, full hybrids can use the electric motor as the sole source of propulsion for low-speed, low-acceleration driving, such as in stop-and-go traffic or for backing up.

This electric-only driving mode can further increase fuel efficiency under some driving conditions.

This is exactly what the Toyota does.

 

[Brian Austin]

And, on the opposite end of the spectrum, my Ford F250 Diesel extended cab, pulling an 8,000lb fifth wheel in 110 degree heat with a 10kt headwind at 80mph gets a whopping 10mpg on its first measured leg. Woohoo!

On the plus side, I'm passing semi's going uphill. Hear that, Richard? Better not get in front of me! (Of course, the stupid CA speed limit of 55mph for vehicles with trailers is absurd. I can do 75+ in AZ. Sheesh.)

 

[MSmith]

Chuck,

How's it working out after a month? I'm seriously considering a 4WD Highlander Hybrid - sales have slowed enough that they actually are on the lots for a few weeks.

 

[Greebo]

I like the Hybrid Highlander very much. At just under 1,500 miles now, and have been getting somewhere between 24 and 25 mpg (which, for an SUV, is damn good, but not quite what the listed rating said, obviously).

Bear in mind that the 4WD hybrid only engages the rear wheels *IF* the front wheels slip at all. It's On Demand 4WD not allways on 4WD.

Being in NJ, you'll probably do just as well with the 2WD model.

Some interesting behaviors I've noticed though...the regenerative breaking means you might notice a change in the level of braking applied while applying a steady pressure to the break pedal (I think what happens is, when the battery is full, the regenerative brakes disengage, leaving only the regular disc brakes engaged, reducing the overall braking). Not a big deal - just kind of odd to get used to.

There is also a slight but noticable lag between a call for power and the application if the gas engine isn't running at the time. Going from full stop to floored acceleration (to merge into traffic) requires a little bit of extra anticipation on your part.

Overall, however, I'm quite happy with it.

 

[MSmith]

Thanks a lot. I just have to test drive it myself and get my wife there (the latter being the hard part).

Being in NJ, you'll probably do just as well with the 2WD model.

SNOW. We get it pretty deep up here. You're probably close, but in the winter that distance (and your proximity to the Chesapeake) makes the difference between 8 inches and 4 inches.

There is also a slight but noticable lag between a call for power and the application if the gas engine isn't running at the time. Going from full stop to floored acceleration (to merge into traffic) requires a little bit of extra anticipation on your part.

I fly little planes. The concept of being ahead of the vehicle is familiar to me. My only problem is that I sometimes push on the steering wheel when I want to go faster.

 

[Greebo]

Yeah you do get more snow - we don't get much at a time, and when we do, I stay off the roads because these idiots around here don't know how to drive in it and I'd rather let them wreck into someone NOT me. (I grew up in WV where a GOOD snowstorm was 8" or more and it took 12" to cancel school.)

Anyway just bear in mind what I said - the front wheels have to slip before the rear motor engages.

 

[Big Bird]

My wife ordered her Highlander Hybrid yesterday. 4X4 Limited model. $39,900. Prolly take two months to get it because she wanted Blue Metallic, ash leather, without the Nav option (we'll use the GPS 396).

 

[MSmith]

Off to test drive one tonight. I'm coming loaded for purchase - title to my trade, checkbook (with adequate balance), etc.

Anything in particular that I should be looking for?

 

[Greebo]

If you're looking to drive off the lot with one, call ahead and go early.

Dunno what you mean by "anything in particular" to be looking for - it's a new car, not a used. Not like you need to remember to borescope the wingspar.

 

[MSmith]

If you're looking to drive off the lot with one, call ahead and go early.

Oh, I've had plenty of experience with the dealership staying open to close a sale. Always seems to happen to me - mainly because weekends are so busy that weeknights are the only time that my wife and I can get to the dealer.

Dunno what you mean by "anything in particular" to be looking for - it's a new car, not a used. Not like you need to remember to borescope the wingspar.

OH, you mean I can return all of this equipment to the local college then?

 

[MSmith]

Test drove one last night.

The dealer's website (tied in with Toyota, I think) listed 5 in stock. Only one was actually available and it wasn't a configuration that I wanted (white, no nav). So, I just drove it and then bought one scheduled to arrive next week.

The test drive was in light/moderate rain (better than the downpours we had earlier). The salesman went and got it from the lot and only took 60 seconds or so from the time I saw him disappear to when he pulled up with the HH. The ICE was not running when I got in. I was able to back it out of the spot, drive it down the hill, and into the gas station (it was almost empty) without the ICE firing up. After it was gassed up, we drove off.

I noticed that acceleration was smoother than I've ever felt in any car - no power/acceleration drops for shifts. It felt almost linear. Braking had the usual new car grab to it. The display showed that it was taking power to the battery, but I couldn't feel it. It rained hard enough that I couldn't hear the engine starting or stopping - it was really quiet.

When we entered the highway I intentionally floored it. It has more pickup than my Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 and I actually had to back off to avoid running into somebody in traffic. The engine wound way up when I floored it, but it was just audible - in the Ford Escape the same noise was overpowering.

So, it drove like my Jeep but a bit better - more car-like if anything. I had already determined that the interior/exterior/features were to my liking from an earlier test drive of a non-hybrid Highlander.

I bought the HH 4WD-i Ltd with Nav. The accessories on this one include port-added floor mats. I got it in Silver with Ash interior.

I will be paying MSRP minus a $200 savings coupon on the dealer's website (to their chagrin they agreed to honor it). Because I'm a Tier 1 Plus credit risk, they agreed to match my credit union's 5.5% for 60 months.

The vehicle is scheduled to arrive early next week and I should be able to pick it up about 24 hours later. The Jeep is being traded in.

 

[Greebo]

Sounds like you enjoyed your test drive as much as I enjoyed mine. Enjoy the car! We'll want pics when it arrives, of course.

 

[MSmith]

Picked it up last night.

Driving with no engine noise is freaky. Today at work I've been doing battery-only laps around the parking lot for co-workers.

Only 37 miles so far - not enough to form an impression yet. I am impressed with the Nav system and how it integrates with EVERYTHING (even setting the clock from GPS), but disappointed that my 10-year-old street is not on the map.