NA - Thinking about a bucket truck

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MIFlyer

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MIFlyer
So, we're building a house and I've learned that because we're going with exposed cardecking under the eaves, i'm going to have to get up there not only during construction, but every few years to touch up the stain. these roofs will be say 30' off the ground at the highest point.

it'll look something like this
VictoryPavilionRoofDecking-lg.jpg


I also think it would come in handy during the construction of the three houses that i have to do, even though i'm subbing out a lot.

i'm thinking of buying something with a >40' reach (ideally close to 50), on the cheap, using it on the lot for a couple of years, then potentially selling when done building. that way, i wouldn't even have to license or insure it.

I don't have a solution to not having to go restain this every few years, it's stunning to me that materials science hasn't come up with a product that can last. anyone know of a product that could last a long time (aka 10+ years)? It will be out of the rain, but outside.

as for why not just use a ladder, I consider them as safe as taking a continental powered single across the mountains. (ok, that's my flamebait, IRL I fly a 182).

i'm looking at something like this
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/87-gmc-bucket-truck/6618802621.html
 
I can see many other uses. If a kid gets too noisy, just throw him/her in the bucket for 15 minutes, also hooking up to free electrical power!... just kidding.
 
John221us said:
I can see many other uses. If a kid gets too noisy, just throw him/her in the bucket for 15 minutes, also hooking up to free electrical power!... just kidding.
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thanks! you got a laugh out of me.

we have a lot of tall trees too that I could reach from the driveway and do a lot of my pruning for "free" vs paying thousands to have the pro's climb up on the spurs
 
That's a tool that can definitely have its uses. I have zero experience with them, but I think you've got the right idea that if you buy one that's lighter weight and just keep it on your property you can buy it and then sell it when the job is complete for minimal risk.

I would actually probably get one with a gas engine instead of a diesel, simply because if the engine breaks it will probably be cheap and easy to fix. The diesel probably won't break, but if it does I'd expect it to be expensive.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would actually probably get one with a gas engine instead of a diesel, simply because if the engine breaks it will probably be cheap and easy to fix. The diesel probably won't break, but if it does I'd expect it to be expensive.
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I've always heard diesel engines are more reliable than gas but I never understood why (I have no experience with diesel anything). Are diesels just built better or is there some inherent flaw in gas engines that limit their reliability?
 
modern diesels are more complicated and very sensitive to fuel contamination/etc. so if you have a car that's going to move a hundred miles a year, the extra power and mileage of a diesel doesn't make much sense. I'd aim to buy a gas one, and put non-ethanol gas with stabil in it.

my daily driver is a diesel pickup, but it gets run several times a week and gets fresh fuel/etc.
 
ColoPilot said:
I've always heard diesel engines are more reliable than gas but I never understood why (I have no experience with diesel anything). Are diesels just built better or is there some inherent flaw in gas engines that limit their reliability?
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Primarily it comes down to the tougher internal components which are designed for higher internal pressures, and better manufacturing quality out of the gate as a rule. The catch is that those tougher bits cost more to replace when they break for the reasons that make them more reliable on the whole.

So in general, a diesel will be more reliable for hard work. But when it breaks it'll cost more to fix and probably be harder to fix. For example, let's say that I have a fuel problem on my (gas powered) tractor. That generally means I need a carburetor, which I can rebuild for probably about $25. If I have a diesel version and the injector pump goes out, now it'll be at least $500, and it has to get timed properly. Much more of a pain.

Internal components have to be stronger for the diesel, so they're tougher and as you'd expect cost more as well if they break.

@MIFlyer is correct that modern diesels are much more sensitive to contamination etc. due to the common rail direct injection systems which have very elaborate fuel injectors to get very fine atomization for emissions purposes. Older diesels were much more forgiving (and on the whole more reliable) but we all know the big smokey diesels of yore.

Diesels are more efficient as a rule (although lately with emissions regs that's changed some) due to the higher compression and lack of pumping a vacuum during part-throttle operations, plus a higher BTU/gallon in diesel ("heavy") fuel. If you're doing a lot of work and going through a lot of fuel, this matters. If you're doing limited work, this doesn't matter.

I love my diesel truck (even though one could easily argue that I don't truly need the diesel and could do fine with a gas engine), but I'm also driving it enough that sitting isn't an issue. For my tractors that get fairly minimal use, I'm happy with gas engines. More forgiving to sitting (which is what they mostly do) and I can buy any engine components I need for in the hundreds of dollars range rather than thousands. But when I buy some of the upcoming heavy equipment purchases I'll probably end up with diesels just because that's what they came with.
 
For what you are wanting to do, a boom lift would be a better choice. Run out of reach, you don't have to fold it all up, pull up the outrigger and get in the cab to move.
 
They make towable bucket lifts. Probably a lot cheaper than having a whole truck attached for occasional use

4146.jpg
 
Shawn said:
They make towable bucket lifts. Probably a lot cheaper than having a whole truck attached for occasional use

4146.jpg
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can't find one used right now, but http://www.scissorliftboomlift.com/...a/?ref=nwg4527abing#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/3/ 31k new. too pricey, but would be good if I can find a cheap one, and i can tow it to my relatives' field to "rest" between uses.

i do see that you can get a lot in a self powered lift, but they cost
https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/hvd/d/2000-genie-s80/6633265899.html

it'd have to get help moving it, as it weighs 35k lbs.

I wonder if I could find a good price ont he towable used. that might be the ticket.

this is an easy drive to me. i still like the trailer idea though
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JLG-600S-6...m=202361223381&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
 
MIFlyer said:
thanks! you got a laugh out of me.

we have a lot of tall trees too that I could reach from the driveway and do a lot of my pruning for "free" vs paying thousands to have the pro's climb up on the spurs
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Video tape it......
 
RJM62 said:
Why not rent one?

Rich
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I thought about it. around $3500/month here plus pick up/delivery.

Figure I've got three houses to do, so i'll need it at least three times.

my goal would be to sell it for what I bought it for. actually looking at one for $6,500 right now. with any luck at all, I could use it for 18 months (maybe 40 hours on it), keep it covered and trickle charged, and sell it for what I have in it, minus sales tax.

I'm hoping it's a "time builder twin" that I can use a little with no MX, but knowing that i'm gambling on a big failure
 
MIFlyer said:
I thought about it. around $3500/month here plus pick up/delivery.

Figure I've got three houses to do, so i'll need it at least three times.

my goal would be to sell it for what I bought it for. actually looking at one for $6,500 right now. with any luck at all, I could use it for 18 months (maybe 40 hours on it), keep it covered and trickle charged, and sell it for what I have in it, minus sales tax.

I'm hoping it's a "time builder twin" that I can use a little with no MX, but knowing that i'm gambling on a big failure
Click to expand...

Thing is, at $6,500 even if you have a big failure, you won't be out too much. Personally the risk/reward seems worth it to me.

MIFlyer said:
I'm buying this to be safer than a ladder. are they particularly hazardous? is there some video training course I can take to reduce risk?
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I watched some videos on YouTube and then hopped in a semi I bought on CraigsList and tried to drive it 350 miles home having never even sat in a semi truck previously. Nobody died, but it didn't work out quite like the YouTube videos showed.

15727211_784866803763_2751319425056549452_n.jpg
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Thing is, at $6,500 even if you have a big failure, you won't be out too much. Personally the risk/reward seems worth it to me.



I watched some videos on YouTube and then hopped in a semi I bought on CraigsList and tried to drive it 350 miles home having never even sat in a semi truck previously. Nobody died, but it didn't work out quite like the YouTube videos showed.

15727211_784866803763_2751319425056549452_n.jpg
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OK, but should I buy a trailer for it? My guess is no, I should borrow/rent a trailer. Need to ask stepdad what his trailer capacity is.
 
MIFlyer said:
OK, but should I buy a trailer for it? My guess is no, I should borrow/rent a trailer. Need to ask stepdad what his trailer capacity is.
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I'm thinking that you're looking at paying someone with a semi to move it. The specs on the website say 22k lb weight, but then the ad says 28k lb. At the low end of that you're looking at a 24k lb trailer for your truck which is probably also well in excess of its rated capacity since (I think) it's not a dually. On my Ram, the towing rating is 16k lbs, and it doesn't get into those higher weight ranges until you're at the dually with 4.11 gearings. Of course, I think the truck could handle it fine, it's just a question of what you want to push and you do want a trailer that can handle the weight.

That boom lift looks like it'd be a really useful tool and if you can get that at a reasonable price that's probably not a bad choice. The catch is that unlike a bucket truck you'd have to pay someone to move it for you whereas the bucket truck you just drive where you're going.

One of my friends who's a farmer made the point that he doesn't think I should buy anything that I can't transport with my own equipment. Reason being that if it breaks in a manner that requires repair by someone else, now I'm looking at a bunch of money just to transport it to the shop and back from the shop before they even look at it. Valid point, although realistically if that happens it might just be an "As-is, where-is" sale for bottom dollar on CraigsList depending on what exactly was wrong with it.

I think I'd be more likely to buy a bucket truck. A couple ones that caught my eye browsing CraigsList:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/ford-f450-bucket-truck-diesel/6638911776.html
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/hvo/d/kodiak-bucket-truck/6628330477.html (always wanted to drive one of those with the Cat 3116 in it)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm thinking that you're looking at paying someone with a semi to move it. The specs on the website say 22k lb weight, but then the ad says 28k lb. At the low end of that you're looking at a 24k lb trailer for your truck which is probably also well in excess of its rated capacity since (I think) it's not a dually. On my Ram, the towing rating is 16k lbs, and it doesn't get into those higher weight ranges until you're at the dually with 4.11 gearings. Of course, I think the truck could handle it fine, it's just a question of what you want to push and you do want a trailer that can handle the weight.

That boom lift looks like it'd be a really useful tool and if you can get that at a reasonable price that's probably not a bad choice. The catch is that unlike a bucket truck you'd have to pay someone to move it for you whereas the bucket truck you just drive where you're going.

One of my friends who's a farmer made the point that he doesn't think I should buy anything that I can't transport with my own equipment. Reason being that if it breaks in a manner that requires repair by someone else, now I'm looking at a bunch of money just to transport it to the shop and back from the shop before they even look at it. Valid point, although realistically if that happens it might just be an "As-is, where-is" sale for bottom dollar on CraigsList depending on what exactly was wrong with it.

I think I'd be more likely to buy a bucket truck. A couple ones that caught my eye browsing CraigsList:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/ford-f450-bucket-truck-diesel/6638911776.html
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/hvo/d/kodiak-bucket-truck/6628330477.html (always wanted to drive one of those with the Cat 3116 in it)
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I’d prefer the Kodiak for the reach. 9500 vs 6500.... I’ll see what’s available when I’m back in town in a week


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've looked at manlifts for a variety of projects around the home as well as ham radio antenna work.
 
With the truck, you can start a side business as a second story man... Free billboard advertising too (well the cost of rattle can anyway).
 
MIFlyer said:
I'm buying this to be safer than a ladder. are they particularly hazardous? is there some video training course I can take to reduce risk?
Click to expand...

There probably are. I took an in-person training course about 15 or 20 years ago. It lasted about two hours, and the important stuff took about 20 minutes. It was required by the rental company, who in turn said it was required by their insurance company, who said it was required by OSHA. I forget who taught the course, but I remember that it claimed to meet OSHA and ANSI requirements.

Bucket trucks and platform lifts are not especially difficult to operate. It takes a while to learn how to use the controls without needing to think about it, but they're pretty straightforward. Safety precautions are important including chocking the wheels, setting the parking brake, inspecting the boom and all the hydraulics, checking the fluid, inspecting the bucket itself (including the pad underneath and the leveling strut, if equipped), double-checking the outriggers and locking pins, avoiding electrical wires, and that sort of thing. None of it is rocket surgery.

You should also wear a hardhat and a harness designed for bucket trucks. The harness is very important if the hydraulics fail catastrophically. That rarely happens because there's some kind of valve in there that's supposed to prevent the bucket from falling if a hydraulic line breaks. But it happens once in a while. The harness has a stretchy lanyard that's supposed to absorb some of the shock if the bucket drops, but still keep you in the bucket (which is safer than falling through the air onto the pavement).

Also, not all the controls are the same. Most of them are, but one company (I think Altec) is reverse from the others. So if you watch a video, it may not necessarily match your truck's controls.

Probably the most important thing is maintaining the boom system and the hydraulics properly. If you buy one, I suggest having a good truck mechanic give it a once-over, preferably before you buy it.

Rich
 
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MIFlyer said:
I thought about it. around $3500/month here plus pick up/delivery.

Figure I've got three houses to do, so i'll need it at least three times.

my goal would be to sell it for what I bought it for. actually looking at one for $6,500 right now. with any luck at all, I could use it for 18 months (maybe 40 hours on it), keep it covered and trickle charged, and sell it for what I have in it, minus sales tax.

I'm hoping it's a "time builder twin" that I can use a little with no MX, but knowing that i'm gambling on a big failure
Click to expand...
$6500 is about what I paid for mine. We have had very little maintenance on it except for discovering that the time builder twins spar had corrosion... alot of it. Thing is many of these come from up north and have tons of corrosion hidden from view as the body is a fiberbody. Ours had fuel tanks rust through requiring work on both. There is terrible frame rust but hey, we have used it for a few years and it still works well.

Before the bucket truck I had a jlg manlift. Terrible to try and move from property to another and maintenance was expensive when it did break down, which it did. The bucket truck is much simpler to maintain and better all around in my view.
 
FORANE said:
$6500 is about what I paid for mine. We have had very little maintenance on it except for discovering that the time builder twins spar had corrosion... alot of it. Thing is many of these come from up north and have tons of corrosion hidden from view as the body is a fiberbody. Ours had fuel tanks rust through requiring work on both. There is terrible frame rust but hey, we have used it for a few years and it still works well.

Before the bucket truck I had a jlg manlift. Terrible to try and move from property to another and maintenance was expensive when it did break down, which it did. The bucket truck is much simpler to maintain and better all around in my view.
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thanks, that's helpful. maybe that Kodiak is a decent deal then. $9,500 and it has a winch at the end. not sure what the capacity of the winch is in various extension conditions, but being able to haul materials up and down to where i'm working would be pretty dandy.
 
Bucket trucks are safe but the bucket has a door. On ours that door has fallen open with me in it. It has a safety chain that goes around the outside of the door which should always be used. You should stay away from power lines obviously. The bucket truck is way safer than a ladder.

Not sure if a winch would have utility. Our bucket truck has a generator and compressor. The 120v power and compressed air is routed to the bucket. Having power especially in the bucket is great.
 
FORANE said:
Bucket trucks are safe but the bucket has a door. On ours that door has fallen open with me in it. It has a safety chain that goes around the outside of the door which should always be used. You should stay away from power lines obviously. The bucket truck is way safer than a ladder.

Not sure if a winch would have utility. Our bucket truck has a generator and compressor. The 120v power and compressed air is routed to the bucket. Having power especially in the bucket is great.
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criticisms on this one?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/hvo/d/kodiak-bucket-truck/6628330477.html I think Ted has convinced me that a driveable one might be more useful for me. I can take it to a buddy's to use it, store it at Mom's place when I don't need it, etc, without paying for transport. I'll have to tag and put liability insurance on it, but that should be cheap enough
 
MIFlyer said:
criticisms on this one?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/hvo/d/kodiak-bucket-truck/6628330477.html I think Ted has convinced me that a driveable one might be more useful for me. I can take it to a buddy's to use it, store it at Mom's place when I don't need it, etc, without paying for transport. I'll have to tag and put liability insurance on it, but that should be cheap enough
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No idea on one that size. Does it have air brakes? Do you need a cdl to drive it?
Can you maneuver it into where you would use it? What powers the hydraulics? Does the motor have to be running with a pto? Does it use batteries? Ours uses the generator to power the hydraulics.
 
FORANE said:
No idea on one that size. Does it have air brakes? Do you need a cdl to drive it?
Can you maneuver it into where you would use it? What powers the hydraulics? Does the motor have to be running with a pto? Does it use batteries? Ours uses the generator to power the hydraulics.
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Yes, easy to get that to all of the spots I would need it, no problem. I don't know how it's powered or if you need to idle the main engine to work it.

I need to talk to the wife tonight, but might buy this when i'm back home ina week. i'm also checking with my framer to see if bringing this in would reduce the amount of time he needs to rent a forklift. He'll still need it for the gluelams (couple of days), but I bet this could do everything else

regarding CDL. I have a lot of friends/cousins with them, so if anything, IF it's over 26,001 lbs, i'd bribe one of them to get it to my place and then I could move around on my property until I got around to getting my CDL) I'm hoping it's under 26,001 GVWR
 
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Those Kodiaks were sometimes under 26k and sometimes over. I've seen them above 30k so you have to see what that particular one is rated for.
 
Here are two online training courses. I have no idea whether they're any good or not:

https://www.360training.com/environ...uipment-training/vehicle-mounted-aerial-lift-

https://hardhattraining.com/product/bucket-truck-online-training/

Your state or municipality may have additional requirements.

As for the CDL, you'd need a Class B (with air brake endorsement if the truck is so equipped) if the MGVR is > 26,001 pounds. A class B isn't hard to get, especially if you already have a truck for the road test and you don't need a HazMat endorsement (which requires fingerprinting and additional testing). Just make sure the truck is in excellent condition safety-wise when you roll up for the test. Also, lots of people fail the road test because of lackadaisical pre-trip inspections. One would hope that wouldn't be the case for a pilot.

Very few of the bucket trucks I rented required a CDL, however. But that may have been because they were intended for the rental market. I do know that having one seemed to comfort truck rental companies in general, even if the truck I was renting didn't require one. Since I downgraded, I find I have to listen to a safety spiel every time I rent even a U-Haul.

Rich
 
Aren't moving violations more expensive when you have a cdl? Or points higher? Does the cdl require an additional physical? Doesn't the cdl require an additional road test when renewing license to maintain, unlike the regular which is pay the fee and get the new license? There are downsides to having a cdl, correct?
 
I bought this Biljax Cougar, used, from a lift dealer who took it in on trade from a painter. Platform height was close to 30 feet. Weight limit, 300 lbs. Would fit through a standard doorway. Was electro-hydraulic (car battery w/charger). I never used it in the 20 years or so I owned it. Sold it a couple years ago for under $500.
Biljax Cougar manlift.jpg
 
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