[NA]Surface water flow engineers

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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west Texas
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Dave Taylor
I have a pasture that the county wants to install some surface water flow modifications ie small pond behind a berm is what it will amount to.

Picture a pasture 400' wide, confined on both left and right sides by tall rocks.
The pasture goes uphill in this sort-of canyon, for a quarter mile.
There is *some* vegetation and the canyon surface is largely flat.
Whenever it rains more than an inch in 24hrs, the canyon shoots a bunch of water down to the front limit of the canyon and then proceeds down a town road, washing it out. Some residents have their homes almost on grade, so they get a few inches in the house each year.

I'd like to help them but need opinions on:
-what can they do to slow the water flow, or retain the water without me ending up with unusable land?
Any pond or poor or berm could not be sold for housing, so this will permanently reduce the property value.

-what legal issues are known? I already am concerned about Texas Parks & Wildlife's claim to jurisdiction over 'storm water' and I have previously read that they take action against those who alter waterway flows without permission. I'm pretty sure the county will not even consider this and I don't want to be stuck with TPW penalties or the cost of restoring a storm water flow. What else?

Currently not at the point of hiring an attorney or water engineer over this but of course it's in mind.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have a pasture that the county wants to install some surface water flow modifications ie small pond behind a berm is what it will amount to.

Picture a pasture 400' wide, confined on both left and right sides by tall rocks.
The pasture goes uphill in this sort-of canyon, for a quarter mile.
There is *some* vegetation and the canyon surface is largely flat.
Whenever it rains more than an inch in 24hrs, the canyon shoots a bunch of water down to the front limit of the canyon and then proceeds down a town road, washing it out. Some residents have their homes almost on grade, so they get a few inches in the house each year.

I'd like to help them but need opinions on:
-what can they do to slow the water flow, or retain the water without me ending up with unusable land?
Any pond or poor or berm could not be sold for housing, so this will permanently reduce the property value.

-what legal issues are known? I already am concerned about Texas Parks & Wildlife's claim to jurisdiction over 'storm water' and I have previously read that they take action against those who alter waterway flows without permission. I'm pretty sure the county will not even consider this and I don't want to be stuck with TPW penalties or the cost of restoring a storm water flow. What else?

Currently not at the point of hiring an attorney or water engineer over this but of course it's in mind.
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Well you don’t want to hire the two people that can help you…

pilots are f’ing tight wads.

edit: I better add the lol since no one can see me laughing.
 
Sounds like the road wasn’t built properly to handle the conditions. Maybe the town should modify the road so that it doesn’t wash out.

Will the proposed water flow changes handle 2” per hour? What about 3”?
 
Why doesn't the county just improve the drainage at the end of the property via the utility easement with concrete drainage channels/storm water basins? I'd think that would be a more permanent solution than trying to create a retention pond that may wash out in heavy rains, especially if it remains dry most of the time.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Nah I read it. You’re thinking about it but don’t want to spend the cash so you asked your buddies first. I know a cheap bastard when I see one. You ain’t fooling me buddy
you know takes one to know one and all that…
Click to expand...

Let's say you are shopping for an airplane.
You have it narrowed down to a certain brand & model, have found some ads.
Are you going to immediately pay for a pre-buy before even getting some basic info on the airplane?
No, you are going to at least review the ad in detail, quiz the seller, google the N#, flightaware-it to see if it has been flying, check the ntsb database, ask opinions on it. There are a lot of things you are going to do before shooting the wallet at it.
I'm thinking an airplane analogy would help a pilot understand. It's not 'cheap'. It's simply what is an appropriate action at the stage in the process.
 
Having a hard time picturing the set-up with certainty, and even harder time understanding their "solution"
But I feel like you concerns are valid
I'd add a concern that they may not get it right and their solution could cause you unforeseen and unintended additional problems.

A long time ago a friend lived just upstream of a small low bridge on a tidal creek. The roadside ditch in front of his house drained into it. The road "experts" "fixed" the bridge and replaced with a large multi-pipe culvert system. More modern engineering practices and all....Well...from that point forward his house was flooded with almost every tropical storm...until FEMA ultimately bought his house and tore it down. An empty lot still, decades later, and it has eroded into somewhat of a marsh / swamp
 
There is another option - and that is underground retention reservoirs. They are basically big, large diameter plastic drainage pipes that sit under rip rap and a porous surface. They are more expensive that simply digging a pond of course, but the land is still usable for the most part. Just Google "underground retention reservoirs" to get a better idea.
 
Also keep in mind that you are likely under no legal duty to do anything about natural runoff from your property. I feel bad for those "downstream", but it's not on you accept injury to your property to fix their problem of a home in low-laying areas. Now, if the county can redirect the water flow without materially impacting your property, then have at it. Thinking about it a bit differently: does the addition of a strategically placed/designed retention pond ADD value to your land? You may be able to reap the benefit of this situation as well, depending on the size/layout.
 
Sac Arrow said:
There is another option - and that is underground retention reservoirs. They are basically big, large diameter plastic drainage pipes that sit under rip rap and a porous surface. They are more expensive that simply digging a pond of course, but the land is still usable for the most part. Just Google "underground retention reservoirs" to get a better idea.
Click to expand...
I just learned about them things. Daughter is looking at a piece of property to buy. Doing it all online right now and has made an offer subject to due diligence. So I went up yesterday and did little diligencing for her. Got talking to a neighbor who knows all about this drainage stuff. The land up there pretty much sits on rock with a thinner than typical layer of dirt and stuff over it. Said it was pretty big bucks thing back in the day when his was built. But in recent years owners have been getting these plastic things and it's not so bad now.
 
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