NA - Military school

sferguson524

sferguson524

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Hey all,

My wife and I are at our wits' end with our older kids (F10, M9). They are misbehaving and not listening worth a darn. Any recommendations for military schools for them?
 
Do any 10 year olds listen worth a ****?

Mine started complaining about how "adults control everything." I told him that when we think we can trust him to get his obligations done, we will. It was a revelation to him, not that he executed the obvious anywhere near successfully.

At that age, they do need "safe" ways to exercise judgment. Military school is excessive, though. Scouting, sports, music, theater, or other organizations where the kids have to depend on each other can help.
 
You could be old fashioned and lay down some laws, but that would be so twentieth century. Kids tend to behave better when there are rules that are enforced at home. When they get older, they will thank you for that.
 
we've kinda gotten to the end of our rope. No reward is good enough to behave, no discipline is bad enough to avoid... :\
 
What makes you think military school will change them?

I knew a few guys and gals that were sent to military and private schools, the only different was that their life style was funded by their parents. Where I had to work the weekends for mine.
 
sferguson524 said:
we've kinda gotten to the end of our rope. No reward is good enough to behave, no discipline is bad enough to avoid... :\
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Hmm, we've had OK results prohibiting electronics UFN, a couple of times. UFN generally means until behavior improves, and it's going to be at least several days.

If the kids don't respect your authority (which is quite different from just not listening), you have a big problem. If they just don't think two seconds ahead, that's what 10 year olds are like.

If you're really at the end of your rope, you need a marriage and family counsellor. You'll get much better advice from a licensed pro than from SGOTI.
 
sferguson524 said:
No reward is good enough to behave, no discipline is bad enough to avoid... :\
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So ... they are in control. They don't want to be in control; they want you to control them, and they want to know how far they can go.

Unfortunately, it could mean unpleasantness, and perhaps law enforcement, and undoubtedly a physical struggle, but ultimately, You Must Be in Control. Once they know you will go the distance to show who is boss, they will back off a bit, because they are essentially testing you to see how much you care.
 
Do yourself and your kids a favor, don't pack them off to military school. You'll both regret it. I have personal experience here. I would've been a lot further ahead as a young adult if I'd had the right help. Military school only delayed the inevitable and made the central problem harder to solve. These days, there are tons more help in this area than was available when I was a kid growing up in the '70s.

I'd suggest that in teaching kids discipline, at the most fundamental level, its the parents that have the most to learn.
 
You just haven't gotten creative enough. And if you don't get control of it now, wait till they're 13 and 14...
 
I went to military school....but it was because I wanted to. In 3 years of high school there I saw about 50% of the kids who were sent for control/attitude issues fail out or get tossed. The remaining 50% seemed to actually learn something worthwhile. I think most of what we learned was that mom and dad are really nice and the real world can suck at times.....it was good prep for the real world.

Frank
 
sferguson524 said:
Hey all,

My wife and I are at our wits' end with our older kids (F10, M9). They are misbehaving and not listening worth a darn. Any recommendations for military schools for them?
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Ernie Gann was a Culver Military Academy alum.
 
I went to a military school back in the early to mid 70s. I thought it was killing me at the time, but it really wasn't. It took me a while but I finally realized that my parents really did love me and wanted me to do my best. I was not a problem kid, I just wasn't making good grades in school so my parents sent me to a better school.

I don't have kids so I can't offer advice. My best friends have kids and they tell me enforcement of the rules mean just that, enforce even though it hurts and ruins your day. The kids need to know who is in charge and understand you will enforce punishments without relenting.

I don't know you or your situation but I wish you luck, and I hope you find the correct action for your kids.

Side bar: The military school I went to sold the property to the department of corrections. It is now a minimum security prison. Yeah, it was a tough school when I was there.
 
Good discipline is an inconvenience for the parents too, but part of the deal with having kids. You gotta be tough and stick to your guns. Sometimes that means grounding the whole family by canceling all family plans when the kids misbehave. They need to lose everything but food, shelter, school and clothing. Everything else is a privilege they must earn. This frequently impacts and is unpleasant for the parents.




Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4
 
MAKG1 said:
At that age, they do need "safe" ways to exercise judgment. Military school is excessive, though. Scouting, sports, music, theater, or other organizations where the kids have to depend on each other can help.
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This.

Also, taking them on trips to remote places where they have to learn to handle life without all the daily luxuries gives them perspective and (hopefully) makes them appreciate what they have. We do Cub Scouts (and likely Boy Scouts in couple years), but there are plenty of other ways to the same ends. Surround them with other "good" kids and positive peer pressure works.

I've joked about the military school "option", but the reality is that might screw them up as much as it might help them. "Mom and Dad didn't want to deal with me, so they dumped me off to be someone else's problem..."
 
Take away stuff they like, starting with electronics. You need a united front between the two parents.

If called for, an old fashioned spanking works too.
 
Becky said:
So ... they are in control. They don't want to be in control; they want you to control them, and they want to know how far they can go.

Unfortunately, it could mean unpleasantness, and perhaps law enforcement, and undoubtedly a physical struggle, but ultimately, You Must Be in Control. Once they know you will go the distance to show who is boss, they will back off a bit, because they are essentially testing you to see how much you care.
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Negative Ghostrider! I cant COUNT the number of calls for service I went on from parents like the OP. "I cant get my 10 year old to get in the car and go to school" <----(Insert whiny voice here) Calling the Police isn't the answer, because guess what? *I* cant parent YOUR child! That's would be YOUR responsibility. AND I am NOT going to tell your child something stupid like "If you don't go to school, I'll take you to jail", because I WONT take you to jail.

Time for the OP to step up and be a parent. You had kids. YOU parent them. Trying to send them off to 'military school' is trying to put the responsibility of raising YOUR kids on someone else. As I said before, If you don't get control of the situation NOW, you're in for a world of hurt in a couple of years.
 
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Norman said:
Nowadays, the kid is likely to call the cops on you for that. Then all hell breaks loose.
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No, all hell doesn't break loose, at least not in Texas. I went on MANY call where the kids called. When I got there and found that the kid was not 'abused', the parents were told (in front of the child) that they were welcome to spank them all they wanted to and I as a cop encouraged it. The kid was usually standing there bug-eyed wondering how this backfired on them.

Parents are given 'reasonable discipline' in the eyes of the law. Big difference between reasonable discipline and abuse.
 
JCranford said:
No, all hell doesn't break loose, at least not in Texas. I went on MANY call where the kids called. When I got there and found that the kid was not 'abused', the parents were told (in front of the child) that they were welcome to spank them all they wanted to and I as a cop encouraged it. The kid was usually standing there bug-eyed wondering how this backfired on them.

Parents are given 'reasonable discipline' in the eyes of the law. Big difference between reasonable discipline and abuse.
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Not in Colorado. Even taking away the phone, grounding, etc. are considered questionable, bordering on abuse depending on the county. By the time the juvenile justice system and Family and Child Services finishes the investigation, the parents are now pariahs in the eyes of the law, and evey decision is scrutinized. I watched this almost 20 years ago with friends and their teenagers.
 
murphey said:
Not in Colorado. Even taking away the phone, grounding, etc. are considered questionable, bordering on abuse depending on the county. By the time the juvenile justice system and Family and Child Services finishes the investigation, the parents are now pariahs in the eyes of the law, and evey decision is scrutinized. I watched this almost 20 years ago with friends and their teenagers.
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Horsepucky.

Which counties will haul you in for grounding your child? Which will even follow up such a complaint?

Don't exaggerate. There is no right to a phone or freedom from grounding anywhere.

Unless by "grounding" you mean "chaining up in the basement with a pot to poop in."
 
At one point, our kids were grounded to their rooms, nothing in there but their bed. clothes were picked out by mom in the morning, and they were only allowed out for meals, chores, school and the bathroom. It was ineffective.
 
sferguson524 said:
At one point, our kids were grounded to their rooms, nothing in there but their bed. clothes were picked out by mom in the morning, and they were only allowed out for meals, chores, school and the bathroom. It was ineffective.
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Define 'ineffective'.
 
sferguson524 said:
At one point, our kids were grounded to their rooms, nothing in there but their bed. clothes were picked out by mom in the morning, and they were only allowed out for meals, chores, school and the bathroom.
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For how long?

When she picked out their clothes, did she give them garbage bags with holes and a twist-tie?
 
PPC1052 said:
For how long?

When she picked out their clothes, did she give them garbage bags with holes and a twist-tie?
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Okay, I'm kidding about the later part. But I am curious about the former.
 
Do they understand that they are being punished for their behavior? They may be acting out because in their minds mom and dad are being mean to them and they don't fully understand the situation.
 
JB1842 said:
Do they understand that they are being punished for their behavior? They may be acting out because in their minds mom and dad are being mean to them and they don't fully understand the situation.
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I am guessing that there is some of this. Also, are the consequences spelled out before hand for non-compliance, or is punishment applied randomly (in other words, applied in some instances but not others)? Do you say if you do/do not do X, then Y will be the consequence? Do you follow through in each case, without exception? Do you say that if you repeat it, then Y+1 will be the punishment? Do you follow through in each case, without exception?

Sorry if this sounds like we are questioning your parenting. I certainly don't mean to offend. Just to discuss the issues. To answer your first question, Culver Military Academy in Indiana is well respected.
 
PPC1052 said:
Sorry if this sounds like we are questioning your parenting. I certainly don't mean to offend. Just to discuss the issues. To answer your first question, Culver Military Academy in Indiana is well respected.
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I just saw you are from Las Vegas. Indiana weather (particularly where Culver is located) has the added benefit that its hot and humid in the summary, and cold and snowy in the winter.
 
I think that punishment lasted about 2 months. Ineffective means the behaviors we were attempting to modify didn't change. The only thing that worked with my daughter was she got caught stealing at school, and the local sheriff sent a deputy out to the house to talk to her.
 
PPC1052 said:
I am guessing that there is some of this. Also, are the consequences spelled out before hand for non-compliance, or is punishment applied randomly (in other words, applied in some instances but not others)? Do you say if you do/do not do X, then Y will be the consequence? Do you follow through in each case, without exception? Do you say that if you repeat it, then Y+1 will be the punishment? Do you follow through in each case, without exception?

Sorry if this sounds like we are questioning your parenting. I certainly don't mean to offend. Just to discuss the issues. To answer your first question, Culver Military Academy in Indiana is well respected.
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No offense is taken at all. It's nice to get others' perspectives on this. Yes, they fully understand that X behavior will result in Y consequence. The biggest problem is they see my wife as a joke, since grandma would rescue them when they were being punished as very young children. They're my stepkids, but I am the only dad they've known.
 
sferguson524 said:
No offense is taken at all. It's nice to get others' perspectives on this. Yes, they fully understand that X behavior will result in Y consequence. The biggest problem is they see my wife as a joke, since grandma would rescue them when they were being punished as very young children. They're my stepkids, but I am the only dad they've known.
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Stepkids? There may very well be something entirely different going on.

I really think you should consult an MFC.
 
sferguson524 said:
No offense is taken at all. It's nice to get others' perspectives on this. Yes, they fully understand that X behavior will result in Y consequence. The biggest problem is they see my wife as a joke, since grandma would rescue them when they were being punished as very young children. They're my stepkids, but I am the only dad they've known.
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Dude, I could write a book..... I just may do that now that I think about it. First off, I have no idea what your family dynamic is so I am completely spitballing. Do the kids know you are "step dad"? Are you and your wife 100% in lock step agreement on parenting issues? Are you 100% sure your wife isn't usurping your authority when you aren't there? Are there other family members sabotaging your leadership in the family?

If you are "step dad", stop now and let your wife do the parenting. You have lost already. Just support her emotionally. If you and your wife don't agree on parenting issues, stop now and let her do the parenting. Support her emotionally. You get my point im sure. There are MANY other things at work in a situation like this. Ill leave it at this.........I know your kids, I know them well. I raised them already. Good luck, you are going to need it.
 
MAKG1 said:
Horsepucky.

Which counties will haul you in for grounding your child? Which will even follow up such a complaint?

Don't exaggerate. There is no right to a phone or freedom from grounding anywhere.

Unless by "grounding" you mean "chaining up in the basement with a pot to poop in."
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Maybe it's horsepucky where you are, but not in certain counties in Colorado. The kids know all they need to do is claim "emotional abuse" which is restricting access to phones, email, or even attending afterschool activities. I was a character witness in the juvie world for my friend dealing with her teenagers.
 
murphey said:
Maybe it's horsepucky where you are, but not in certain counties in Colorado. The kids know all they need to do is claim "emotional abuse" which is restricting access to phones, email, or even attending afterschool activities. I was a character witness in the juvie world for my friend dealing with her teenagers.
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Wow, I guess I was emotionally abused as a kid then as I had none of those things.

Does the fact that they exist now but not then make a difference? I think not.
 
murphey said:
Maybe it's horsepucky where you are, but not in certain counties in Colorado. The kids know all they need to do is claim "emotional abuse" which is restricting access to phones, email, or even attending afterschool activities. I was a character witness in the juvie world for my friend dealing with her teenagers.
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Emotional abuse!?? Geez, Colorado maybe farther gone than I thought..
 
murphey said:
Maybe it's horsepucky where you are, but not in certain counties in Colorado. The kids know all they need to do is claim "emotional abuse" which is restricting access to phones, email, or even attending afterschool activities. I was a character witness in the juvie world for my friend dealing with her teenagers.
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So a benchwarmer could sue for emotional abuse because he's not the starting QB on the high school football team?
 
JCranford said:
Geez, Colorado maybe farther gone than I thought..
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It's a strange mix. Colorado has everything from abusive cops protected by the system to a totally separate system that thinks it has a mandate to interfere in suburban family matters while ignoring inner-city family matters.

And then don't forget that we're paying former gang members to not be gang members after they get out of prison...
 
murphey said:
Maybe it's horsepucky where you are, but not in certain counties in Colorado. The kids know all they need to do is claim "emotional abuse" which is restricting access to phones, email, or even attending afterschool activities. I was a character witness in the juvie world for my friend dealing with her teenagers.
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Which "certain counties?"

I don't believe it.
 
Praise the good behavior. Take them to church. Engage them in more activities. Throwing your kids in a room and trying to ignore them is not going to help. That was my parents approach growing up and it only escalated problems. They are just kids!
 
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