NA insurance claims info

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I was given a form to fill out by the insurance company, and wanted some info about how it all works.

They ask you to list the item lost and in columns beside that, they ask:
1. Where purchased or obtained from
2. Date or purchase or age
3. Cost to replace/repair/restore
4. Today's value/actual cash value

In a "replacement value" policy such as mine, I was wondering why they ask these other things, and if I have to comply.

Seems to me that if the policy covers "replacement value" then the only thing they truly need and have a right to know from me is, "replacement value".

Do I have a legal leg to stand on if I refuse to provide the other info? Most of that stuff I don't know exactly. I don't want to be made to guess, and then get in trouble for wrong info, because they made me guess.

I lost a widget, my policy says you will replace my widget, so get me a widget without all the game-playing!
I didn't play games when it came time to pay the premium!

(I can see the age thing, a 20yo lawnmower will not have the value of a new one)
 
You do not have to comply. They do not have to continue coverage. ;)

"Dear X, We regret to inform you that we will not be able to renew your policy. We are not reporting you to the various insurance databases as non-insurable, but your policy with us will terminate on xx/xx/2011 and we will not renew. Have a nice day."

It's a business.

My wife got one of those letters after she was hit six times in seven years and never found at fault from our Auto insurance company at the time. I liked them and their service, but they obviously didn't like paying that much money out for any one policy.

We yanked all of our business from them as a result. Only "fair". If they'd have left well enough alone they would have made it all back in premiums over a few years time, but some computer somewhere said "drop" and they did. Their loss, not mine.

I was always more thankful that she was never injured in those crazy years than worried about the insurance hassles. Cars are replaceable.

As far as homeowner's goes, since I assume that's what you're talking about when you mention full-replacement-value, they're always asking for more info about what they're covering to adjust your rates accordingly. And a true full-replacement policy is getting more rare and/or more expensive. Check out the list of exceptions carefully in your documentation. You'll notice the things that are not covered, are the things that usually happen. A common example is basement flooding. Not typically covered. Lots of those "gotchas" in a full-replacement policy these days.

I hate reading insurance paperwork or trying to get apples-to-apples quotes from insurance companies. Huge time waster. They count on that too, though. Best rates are reserved for new customers. Then they slowly boil the frog...
 
Somethings even in a Deluxe Plus/H.O.3 policy are still ACV, but even if they are RV items they want the info for record keeping. If you have to argue with them over the value, use the phrase "Bad Faith", as in: "These items are listed as Replacement Value in my policy and you're trying to pay Actual Cash Value, that seems to me as you're acting in Bad Faith." DO NOT threaten them with a lawyer until you have already called one, because as soon as you do, you will have to go down that rabbit hole as the adjuster can no longer negotiate with you at that point. As soon as someone mentions a lawyer, I have to walk away and turn it over to the office and then they will no longer talk to you and make you get a lawyer. Typically though the words "bad faith" will have the desired effect...
 
denverpilot said:
As far as homeowner's goes, since I assume that's what you're talking about when you mention full-replacement-value, they're always asking for more info about what they're covering to adjust your rates accordingly. And a true full-replacement policy is getting more rare and/or more expensive. Check out the list of exceptions carefully in your documentation. You'll notice the things that are not covered, are the things that usually happen. A common example is basement flooding. Not typically covered. Lots of those "gotchas" in a full-replacement policy these days.

I hate reading insurance paperwork or trying to get apples-to-apples quotes from insurance companies. Huge time waster. They count on that too, though. Best rates are reserved for new customers. Then they slowly boil the frog...
Click to expand...

NO HOMEOWNERS POLICY IN THE US COVERS FLOODING. That is what NFIP is for. If the water hits the ground before it comes in the house, it is flooding and not covered. If a tree falls on your house, or the wind rips the roof off or breaks a window, a snow/ice storm backs up the gutters... and the water comes in causing damage, that IS covered by a Homeowners policy. As long as the water hasn't hit the ground yet before it comes in, it's "wind driven rain" and covered by a Homeowners policy. That's what makes adjusting hurricanes such a PITA since you have to work 2 separate claims (if they have NFIP coverage) on the same property (or NFIP needs to send another adjuster. I quit doing NFIP after one event because they are a nightmare to deal with, takes twice the time and crawling through mud to record serial numbers off of appliances... for less pay than working the Wind Damage side of it).

In any given state, you will always be comparing "apple to apple" policies if they have the same policy type name on them. Insurance companies DO NOT write the policies, the State Insurance Commission does, the insurance companies sell the policies the state gives them. Every insurance company you go to will have the same list of policies and riders. If you get an HO-2/Deluxe Homeowners policy from one company the coverage will be exactly the same as from any other company selling in that state.
 
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Henning, I wasn't taking about flooding from the outside. I should have been more clear but NIFP is not exactly a big secret. I was saying that if a pipe breaks in your basement, good luck with that "full replacement value" policy these days. Underwriters don't like internal water damage.

There's other "pet peeve" losses that Underwriters shun from time to time. During our eleven or so year hail, wind, wildfire cycle here in Colorado, various roofing types are "uninsurable" by many Underwriters during years after big losses. (Shake shingles are a popular target of this, although I don't have them and never would.)

You'll get an HO-2 or whatever with a pile of exception riders attached to it here.

I had a number of insurers here refuse to even quote certain things or wouldn't quote them together. They had "packages" of riders that went "together" for example, as if you were buying the "SLT" package on a pickup truck at a car dealer. "Oh, the factory can't make that." Okay, then the factory doesn't want my money. "Oh, well if it's THAT important to you we could order it, but it'll take longer."

Insurance seems to be playing similar games 'round here.

As far as "same name" policies... How many people know what an "HO-2" is or that policies even are "named" when they buy their first property? (Or sometimes their tenth!)

The move away from Agents to the web is only making things more obscure. It's the rare insurer where you can even find out if what you're looking at is an HO-2 or any other type unless you demand they fax a copy of the policy.

You won't figure it out on the website, and many still claim (pun intended) that their "systems" can't e-mail a PDF. It takes days to independently gather good information on insurance products, something that in a modern computerized world should take minutes. I haven't yet found a good clearinghouse of rate information that mixes Underwriter ratings, rate quotes, and compares apples-to-apples policy types.

A good independent Agent is worth their weight in gold, but rare to find here. The Agents tied to specific Underwriters push specific things, of course. The concept that an Agent is "on your side" or "friendly" when the Underwriter pays their bills not you, is a common theme in Insurance advertising. It's misleading and false.

Just reading my homeowner's policy once I settled on one, front to back, took an hour. A pro/agent could skim it and see the differences from the usual "boilerplate" the Attorneys write much faster.

What's really rich is that the totally useless Better Business Bureau and similar will give all these insurers which obscure as much as possible until you've signed on the dotted line and their "systems" kick out a pretty bound policy on heavy paper, their top ratings for customer service. Bah humbug. Worthless. Even organizations like Consumer's Union (most folks know them as Consumer Reports) just toss out a few thoughts in their articles on insurance, throw up their hands, and say... shop around.

I could get started on the "anti-aviation" clauses in many employer's "free" life and AD/D insurance policies that the Underwriters use as a loss-leader to sell you additional coverage using your employer as a marketing/advertising branch...
 
denverpilot said:
My wife got one of those letters after she was hit six times in seven years and never found at fault from our Auto insurance company at the time.
Click to expand...

What was she driving, a magnet? :hairraisi

That said, my dad had a few benders in a fairly short time and my parents got dropped from State Farm, too - This, after having insured with them for MANY years for auto, homeowners, and everything else. They did the same thing you did.

Computers aren't very smart sometimes. :idea:

Dave, I had to do that same thing after my truck accident a few years ago (claim on homeowners policy, since the other guy didn't have insurance and the company didn't cover personal belongings). I had to find original value, current value, and replacement cost. They actually ended up giving me MORE money than the replacement cost total. I guess in their books, somehow a $40 microwave is worth $150. :dunno: But one of the items claimed was my laptop, and they replaced it with the latest whiz-bang shiny thing from Apple, no questions asked.

If nothing else, maybe the adjuster was happy that I did the "homework" and they didn't have to, which would be the case for someone who didn't fill out the paperwork.
 
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Just put "est." alongside any number you're not sure about and send it in.

You're not required to know everything about every item.

When our mens' clubhouse burned, Ed Schwartz claimed he had an MG-TF in his locker.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I was not clear, this is a list of items in a claim.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you are making a clam on your C coverage, you have to provide the insurance company with a list of items and their value. Let me tell you what will get an adjuster to cut you a check on the spot...

Take pictures of the items (not easy with fire or theft claims or when the tornado spread your belongings in the wind which is why it is very valuable to you to walk through your house with a video camera every now and then to quickly make a video catalog of your house and contents) that have been damaged or destroyed and bring advertisements of those (or similar replacements) items. Provide me with evidence of the loss, a list of the lost items with a total value evidenced by the advertisements and a total at the bottom, and I'll be in and out the door in 5 minutes and you'll have a check.

The best thing to do about the ACV value (BTW, typically the max depreciation an adjuster will apply to an item is 50%. If you take how many years an item will typically last and factor that with 50% of the RC, that will give you a good idea of how much to depreciate it.) tell them "How the hell should I know, That's your job to figure out, besides, the only items that ACV applies to in my policy are.... everything else is Replacement Cost and here is a list with some local advertised prices for replacement."
 
Scheduled property is another stated value gotcha. Be sure you provide the insurance company with any information about property that may exceed stated value limits. If you want to collect on Granny's antique harpsichord, or grandad's revolutionary war flintlock, for full value after the fire, the insurance better have proof of ownership and value before the loss. Read your policy for scheduled property limits and endorsements.
 
A friend of mine house just was struck by lightning. Burned the garage and destryed both cars. Adjuster asked about contents. She said nothing really of value. According to the adjuster, apparently most cars that are burned in house fires have at least $1000 cash, Prada shoes, Gucci handbags, Serengheti sunglasses and Armani suits in them somewhere.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
A friend of mine house just was struck by lightning. Burned the garage and destryed both cars. Adjuster asked about contents. She said nothing really of value. According to the adjuster, apparently most cars that are burned in house fires have at least $1000 cash, Prada shoes, Gucci handbags, Serengheti sunglasses and Armani suits in them somewhere.
Click to expand...

LOL!
Six years ago my house was struck by lightening, burning down one bathroom and part of the garage. It was an act of God, that bathroom was the ugliest room in the entire house, if something had to burn, I'm glad it was that room. Smoke damage was bad, though. Everything in the house had to be cleaned professionally. But we got a really nice bathroom out of it! And no, I didn't have any Prada shoes or handbags in the burned-out bathroom.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
A friend of mine house just was struck by lightning. Burned the garage and destryed both cars. Adjuster asked about contents. She said nothing really of value. According to the adjuster, apparently most cars that are burned in house fires have at least $1000 cash, Prada shoes, Gucci handbags, Serengheti sunglasses and Armani suits in them somewhere.
Click to expand...

:D My wife and I are pretty low key. Her friend, however, has the sane job and she's a shopaholic. Designer this and that. The big expense for us, should our house ever suffer a calamity, would be the server racks in the basement.
 
Well we have had fires, record freezes, howling windstorms and now a water leak this year.

What will get the adjuster to lean my way in the case of a copper pipe discovered leaking in the slab?

The agent says wear and tear is not covered. We are having a hard time thinking how we wore and tore something that is not accessible to us. Maybe we turned the water faucets on too much, or too vigorously?
The repairman says they usually cover 'sudden and unexpected' appearances of water (except floods unless you have f. ins.). and he will write a report.
This certainly was that.
What words will make them lean towards a rightful compensation? (these things usually boil down to a word game).

I think the pipe burst suddenly through no fault of ours, resulting in losses due to repair, damage the repairman did to the floor and walls, and the water damage to the interior floors etc.
 
Usually the rule of thumb is if it comes down from the top, like a leaky roof or burst pipe, it's covered. If it comes up from the bottom, it's a flood and you're out of luck. All depends on the policy. We had copper pipes that developed pin-hole leaks in the basement and literallly floated our basement "floating" floor. Unfortunately, no recourse but no big loss either.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Well we have had fires, record freezes, howling windstorms and now a water leak this year.

What will get the adjuster to lean my way in the case of a copper pipe discovered leaking in the slab?

The agent says wear and tear is not covered. We are having a hard time thinking how we wore and tore something that is not accessible to us. Maybe we turned the water faucets on too much, or too vigorously?
The repairman says they usually cover 'sudden and unexpected' appearances of water (except floods unless you have f. ins.). and he will write a report.
This certainly was that.
What words will make them lean towards a rightful compensation? (these things usually boil down to a word game).

I think the pipe burst suddenly through no fault of ours, resulting in losses due to repair, damage the repairman did to the floor and walls, and the water damage to the interior floors etc.
Click to expand...


Rule of thumb, if there wasn't a "Covered Event" like an earthquake or a plane crashing into your house, the pipe in the slab won't be covered. Whatever damage the water from the burst pipe does though is covered, so what you wan't to claim is that the burst pipe eroded the slab, not that the slab broke the pipe. That way you only pay for the pipe.
 
The shingles on my house were so bad they disintegrated under the shoes of the insurance adjuster, and he was stuck (sans telephone) until one of my neighbors called the the fire division, who brought in a ladder truck.

Yes, my house tried to eat an insurance adjuster. I love my house. Still, the guy saw wind damage, it was covered, and the Steinholme now sports a new roof.
 
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