NA Chevy beats Ford in total truck sales 2017

The best value right now is the Lariat trim F150. You can add many, but not all, of the Platinum creature comforts after purchase for a fraction of what a Platinum costs. Shows you the profit Ford has in these higher trim levels.

The Silverado is just behind in tech, styling, and luxury comforts. From motor options to interior, ride, cabin quietness, and features, it's clear GM is riding the profit wave as long as they can. Some new features coming but still lag Ford.

Ram and Nissan - I'll pass. Every FCA product I work on the cheapness in parts and build quality is evident. And in every area. Nissan - just ugly. Toyota - the Tundra is seriously outdated. Reliable and great quality, just outdated.
 
Last edited:
Zeldman said:
1/2 ton pickups, any brand, are good for one thing. Keeping your dress clean while driving it....:lol::lol:

A friend of mine bought a used 2016 F-150. Man, that thing is just one step away from being a ladies dressing room.

He bought it for cross country driving, no loads other than himself and an over night bag. It's working out good for him.
Click to expand...

Always one of the best comments on a truck brand discussion. Tacomas aren't real trucks if you're talking half-tons . . . half-tons aren't real trucks if you're in an HD/SuperDuty forum . . . light duty trucks aren't real trucks if you're talking medium-duty . . . nothing is a real truck unless you drive a semi-tractor, lol.
 
I’m so proud of you PoA’rs out there who recognize that Ford is the best. :D You guys have come a long way. :cheers:
 
CC268 said:
I’m so proud of you PoA’rs out there who recognize that Ford is the best. :D You guys have come a long way. :cheers:
Click to expand...
FWIW, in my area Ford trucks are pretty dominant. Out of curriosity, on two occasions I have counted trucks while driving across town. While I realize this is a totally unscientific poll, it is still impressive to me. On one trip I counted 21 Ford trucks and 19 of all other brands put together. On the other occasion it was 27 Ford trucks to 19 of all other trucks.
 
What F-150 owners see when they look at their 150.

7747446046_492d26d4c8.jpg



What real pick up owners see when looking at a F-150

we-review-the-power-wheels-ford-f-150-the-best-kid-trucker-gift-photo-gallery_6.jpg
 
Zeldman said:
What F-150 owners see when they look at their 150.

7747446046_492d26d4c8.jpg



What real pick up owners see when looking at a F-150

we-review-the-power-wheels-ford-f-150-the-best-kid-trucker-gift-photo-gallery_6.jpg
Click to expand...

Not everyone can afford that fancy 60k diesel you drive ;)
 
Zeldman said:
I can't afford to drive a 60k diesel either...:frown2:

That is why I am still driving the 29K one I bought 11 years ago...:lol::lol:
Click to expand...

Inflation...11 years ago that was like 60K. Lol just kidding.
 
On the F150 forum the other day one guy was posting how proud he was to get a Limited, stickered for $68,000, for $61,000. Crazy pricing for these high level trim packages.

F-series super duty limited - $100,000 truck. Maybe I should order two...
 
Stopped and looked casually at new Ford Pickups last year while I was getting an alignment done on my 1993 F350 7.3 diesel (that I paid 8k for 13 years ago).

Salesman came up and asked if I was thinking about a new truck, I said sure, I want a diesel with manual transmission, bench seats, vinyl floorboards, air conditioning, AM/FM radio and NO other options, no touch screens, no 'info-tainment', no butt heaters, etc. A basic no nonsense truck that is cheap to maintain. He looked at me like I was from another planet and walked off

I can't bring myself to spend anything more than $15k on a pickup, they're meant for work, not to be luxury cars. IMHO all the gizmos and gadgets are more items to break and maintain over the long run. I keep my vehicles for decades and expect them to last at least 300k miles without major repairs... I know I'm not normal.. and I'm OK with that

My 'old' truck... over 200k miles and still running strong. My biggest worry is someone will hit it and insurance will 'total it' for only a couple grand in damage.

856a1d4671bce5ffa45066c72a5b8e66.jpg


Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
 
jrollf said:
Stopped and looked casually at new Ford Pickups last year while I was getting an alignment done on my 1993 F350 7.3 diesel (that I paid 8k for 13 years ago).

Salesman came up and asked if I was thinking about a new truck, I said sure, I want a diesel with manual transmission, bench seats, vinyl floorboards, air conditioning, AM/FM radio and NO other options, no touch screens, no 'info-tainment', no butt heaters, etc. A basic no nonsense truck that is cheap to maintain. He looked at me like I was from another planet and walked off

I can't bring myself to spend anything more than $15k on a pickup, they're meant for work, not to be luxury cars. IMHO all the gizmos and gadgets are more items to break and maintain over the long run. I keep my vehicles for decades and expect them to last at least 300k miles without major repairs... I know I'm not normal.. and I'm OK with that

My 'old' truck... over 200k miles and still running strong. My biggest worry is someone will hit it and insurance will 'total it' for only a couple grand in damage.

856a1d4671bce5ffa45066c72a5b8e66.jpg


Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Don't get rid of it, those things are getting harder and harder to find.
 
jrollf said:
My 'old' truck... over 200k miles and still running strong. My biggest worry is someone will hit it and insurance will 'total it' for only a couple grand in damage.
Click to expand...

I think in most altercations, your truck will come out the winner!! :)
 
Lachlan said:
Real men don’t own cats or Japanese trucks. They have big dogs and bigger toolboxes and fly taildraggers.
Click to expand...
I have two cats, a Japanese truck, the dog died two years ago, all my small toolboxes are scattered about different hangars and shops, and I'm secure in my masculinity. ;)

Nauga,
who is wearing a Powerpuff Girls T-shirt
 
GLMS_NC said:
On the F150 forum the other day one guy was posting how proud he was to get a Limited, stickered for $68,000, for $61,000. Crazy pricing for these high level trim packages.

F-series super duty limited - $100,000 truck. Maybe I should order two...
Click to expand...
I hear @saddletramp has some extra cash to burn ;):p
 
Matthew K said:
I hear @saddletramp has some extra cash to burn ;):p
Click to expand...

That's the point. I don't have money to burn. I used to buy new trucks all the time when I was young & stupid. Young guys come to work at our business right out of school & go buy a new truck. Some people don't understand the cost of depreciation.

I can't help but wonder on what my investment portfolio would look like today if I hadn't purchased so many new vehicles.
 
saddletramp said:
That's the point. I don't have money to burn. I used to buy new trucks all the time when I was young & stupid. Young guys come to work at our business right out of school & go buy a new truck. Some people don't understand the cost of depreciation.

I can't help but wonder on what my investment portfolio would look like today if I hadn't purchased so many new vehicles.
Click to expand...

I have a theory, based on my own experience buying used vehicles. Your investment portfolio would look exactly the same. But you'd have a tool collection in your shop the envy of everyone you know.
 
GRG55 said:
I have a theory, based on my own experience buying used vehicles. Your investment portfolio would look exactly the same. But you'd have a tool collection in your shop the envy of everyone you know.
Click to expand...

There’s a non-linear depreciation from first year to about the forth year. Four to ten, you won’t usually need any special tools.

Also the era of the home mechanic is waning. A four to ten year old vehicle today, you’ll need factory or hacked software to find out what’s going on with it. Wasn’t true ten years ago.
 
Zeldman said:
Don't get rid of it, those things are getting harder and harder to find.
Click to expand...
Don't plan to, love my truck. I sometimes look at new ones just for fun and to shake my head when I look at the sticker price.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
 
denverpilot said:
There’s a non-linear depreciation from first year to about the forth year. Four to ten, you won’t usually need any special tools.

Also the era of the home mechanic is waning. A four to ten year old vehicle today, you’ll need factory or hacked software to find out what’s going on with it. Wasn’t true ten years ago.
Click to expand...

saddletramp and I are of the same vintage. Today everybody thinks points are something you collect in a loyalty program. I'll make a wager his first car, like mine, had points in the distributor. :D
And not a computer to be found anywhere on it. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
first car, like mine, had points in the distributor. :D
Click to expand...

I still have a couple GM points adjusting tools and a dwell meter that works.

I was watching one of those car shows and there was a guy in California that makes 100K/year because he can set and adjust points on older cars. And I used to do it for 3 bucks an hour.....
 
Zeldman said:
1/2 ton pickups, any brand, are good for one thing. Keeping your dress clean while driving it....:lol::lol:

A friend of mine bought a used 2016 F-150. Man, that thing is just one step away from being a ladies dressing room.

He bought it for cross country driving, no loads other than himself and an over night bag. It's working out good for him.
Click to expand...


Awwwww. I didn't know you thought of me as a friend but thanks. I like you too.

I love my '16 Ford F-150 Lariat. Good power out of a twin turbo 2.7L ecoboost engine and great gas mileage averaging 23.8/5 depending on AC use. That thing has all sorts of bells and whistles, some of which I haven't discovered or used yet.
 
My first car did have points. 1972 Mercury Montego GT. It was Mercurys version of the Ford Torino GT. Of course I installed Crager mags & raised white letter tires.

I could afford it though. I was 18 years old & was a full-time CFI, 135 Pilot. I was grossing nearly 1K a month! Pretty much the same pay as todays CFIs make.
 
I've owned several trucks, and have had several company trucks. All have been Chevy/GMC or Ford. Only one of those brands has let me down, over and over. Ford.

I'm an equal opportunity pick-up driver, but Fords fail me continually, while GM has served me well with few issues. Ford generally has better styling, much better interiors, and cooler gadgets. Unfortunately, their suspensions and steering fail quite quickly when used for anything other than highway driving, the transmissions develop shifting issues regularly, the electrics are a habitual problem, bad coils, and don't get me started on the 5.4L 3 valve spark plugs. I've had 5 of them in the last 15 years, including 2 personal and 3 company trucks. Every single one of them had major issues by the 100K mile mark. Between the 5, I couldn't begin to count all the problems I encountered.

Chevys/GMCs have worse interiors that have been know to fall apart, are lacking in style, and are short on innovation. However, they get it right where is counts in my opinion. Solid engines, solid transmissions (in the V8s), solid but soft suspensions, solid steering, and easy to work on. You can't kill them. I've had 4 of them in the last 20 years. I can count the number of major issues on one hand. My current GMC is 10 years old and has over 180K miles, and the only thing I've done is replace the two belts and replace the plugs at about 170K, just because.

Ford makes a nice truck.
GM makes a dependable truck.

To be fair, my trucks live on back roads and are used for work. I have no doubt all the major brands make a good highway truck, but in the field, Chevy is far and away the more reliable vehicle.
 
saddletramp said:
That's the point. I don't have money to burn. I used to buy new trucks all the time when I was young & stupid. Young guys come to work at our business right out of school & go buy a new truck. Some people don't understand the cost of depreciation.

I can't help but wonder on what my investment portfolio would look like today if I hadn't purchased so many new vehicles.
Click to expand...
Oh I agree. I was just poking some fun. There's a reason I'm driving a almost 19 year old diesel myself.
 
OkieFlyer said:
Ford makes a nice truck.
GM makes a dependable truck.

To be fair, my trucks live on back roads and are used for work. I have no doubt all the major brands make a good highway truck, but in the field, Chevy is far and away the more reliable vehicle.
Click to expand...

I’d say Chevy is no more reliable than Ford, but the unreliable things in Chevy trucks are things don’t stop the drivetrain from operating... is a more accurate way to put that.

They’re seemingly married to that 5.3L Engine forever, but the silly things will run even when they have major problems.

And I’ve never once seen anyone need to replace a Chevy driveshaft.

Ford on the other hand, thanks to where they weld the hanger for the bearing... can’t just slide crap out of the way and replace the bearing like one should be able to do, have to pull out the whole driveshaft. Dumb.

Ford seems to go out of their way to innovate at the expense of also not paying any attention whatsoever to maintenance. What should be a $30 bearing replacement turns into a $1200 driveshaft replacement just because their engineers are pricks.

Take the whole cab off the truck to work on the drivetrain? I mean seriously, it’s a truck. That’s just utterly stupid.
 
I will give Ford one plus mark for one maintenance thing. In a state with as much hail as we get, popping just the roof panel off of the Lincoln LT to fix it, was a nice trick. Saved the body shop a lot of time. Can’t do that on the new ones though.

My buddy’s brand new Subaru in the same storm, is well over $12,000 in damage, and the doors have to be replaced. LOL. There’s no replaceable panels in any of these new bubble cars.
 
And I think I’ll hang on to my venerable old 5.9 Cummins for ... ever. Haha. Videos like this one remind me of how simple these silly things are, and nearly indestructible.

 
Ford apparently announced some of the specs on their 3.0L diesel, and other than the 30 MPG number that it won’t get towing anything, the rest of the numbers are pretty “meh”, as is the announcement that they supposedly got their grade shifting right for downhill with a trailer.

(Which hasn’t been seen in any of the other 10-speed trucks yet, apparently, or they’re just smoking crack. Because all the reviewers say the thing won’t hold big trailers back with any engine combination thus far.)


Looks to me like they were too focused on “just beat Ram by a few horsepower” again, instead of what people actually want in the half ton diesels (and Ram didn’t hit it either), and which is what got us to $70,000 heavy duty towing pickups that nobody wants to pay for.

Over $40,000 for the fleet version of the thing, and the diesel is a $4000 option on only the Lariat and up trim levels on the consumer trucks.

It’ll be interesting to see what the MPG is when towing, but it’ll take a loooong time to make up the dollar difference between the diesel and the big V6. Less time between the diesel and the little V6. Not to mention the additional cost above the fuel to buy it chicken pee and fill that tank.

Ford isn’t too well known for good things on version 1 of anything either, so ... diesel in 2018? I wouldn’t. Let them work the bugs out of the new little Powerstroke first, I’d say.

Well, at least they got into the market.

The one area it might shine is as a long trip length daily driver that can tow once in a while, which is definitely my wheelhouse, but that price tag to add the diesel is too big a jump from the EcoBoost. And MaxTow package on the EcoBoost out pulls it by 2000 lbs.

Starting off with a yawn, on this one, Ford... other than the fuel economy. If it’s really 30, that’s good. Let’s see what EPA and then the real world actually say about it. Once someone else takes the first four years depreciation hit on them, they might be worth owning. Would bring them down into a price range of the older HD diesels, pre-monstrous emissions systems. Still at over 11,000 lbs you’re talking weights that older HD trucks could pull but wouldn’t make for good no-towing daily drivers... so this might be where the little Ford diesel really shines. We shall see...
 
OkieFlyer said:
Ford makes a nice truck.
GM makes a dependable truck.

To be fair, my trucks live on back roads and are used for work. I have no doubt all the major brands make a good highway truck, but in the field, Chevy is far and away the more reliable vehicle.
Click to expand...

Everyone has their experiences with one brand or the other.

I've had an F-150 with the 302 (no poor reputation that I'm aware of), I've had one 2V 5.4L (spark plug blowout reputation), and I currently have the 3V 5.4L (spark plug seizing/Cam Phaser reputation), and didn't have a single problem with any of them. I had to replace an alternator on my current one, a heater core on the 2V, but never experienced any of the problems those engines had a "reputation" for. All engines/transmissions went well over 150K miles before I sold them, and showed no signs of stopping. I also never had any problems with steering/suspension with any of them. I just replace shocks around 120-130K miles and truck on down the road. My experience may be unique, but I honestly don't think the Triton engines are as bad as some make them out to be, especially given the number of those 4.6L/5.4Ls they produced across all trucks/vans/SUVs.

My father had a '95 with the 302, and still runs a '99 with the 2V 5.4L. We did have to do some suspension rebuild of those two trucks, but it was mainly ball joints and a-arm bushings that would wear on any vehicle after 100K+. We also had to replace a metal coolant hardline that should never have been designed as it was (runs down middle of intake valley) on the '99, but it was relatively painless/inexpensive once we located the leak. If those are the only issues I have to deal with over 150K-175K+ per truck, I'll take it.

Meanwhile, electrical sensor errors galore on my two '07 GM vehicles with LS-series V8s. They also burn 2-3qts of oil over about 5K oil change intervals. My wife had '99 and '01 GMC trucks and I can't count the number of window motors, instrument cluster failures, broken tailgate handles, and other electrical gremlins they had.

As I mentioned, everyone's experiences will differ with each brand. I've had good luck with my Fords so far, aside from a '90 Taurus SHO that had a head gasket failure which wasn't cheap (Yamaha all-aluminum engine). GM's I'm less thrilled about, but I wouldn't swear them off at the moment as I think they've started to get their **** together on their latest generation (2010+).
 
Ford Diesel looks interesting. I suspect they can probably hit 30 on the highway without too much trouble. My Colorado with the 2.8 Diesel with a 6 speed is a little lighter and regularly gets 30+ highway(Freeway), not so good in traffic or on curvy hilly roads though but still never worse than 25(not towing). Of course my payload is 1500lbs and towing only about 7000. Of course the real advantage to the F150 for a daily driver looks to be that it actually has adaptive cruise control which Chevy still hasn't bothered with in the baby trucks although it look like they may get it in 2018.
 
In church Sunday I was talking to the owners of the car dealerships, Ford and GM. Both are advising me to steer away from the diesels for a few more years. Seems both brands have a lot of trouble with the diesel particulate filter (DPF). Both told me the DPF is more than half of the warranty work coming in right now. And one of the mechanics agrees.

I asked about the '18 model diesel. Both said wait until '19 to find out if the '18 DPF works or not.

Dealer owners make their money by selling vehicles. When a dealer advises to not buy a certain vehicle, I'll have to listen.

One problem could possibly be the short distance most people drive here. Sure the next town is an hour drive away and major shopping is 2.5 hours away, but most trips in town take less than 15 minutes. Not enough time to properly warm up the engine so then the DPF can't do its job properly. Both dealers agree that may be part of the problem.

One guy bought a '17 Duramax. He drives it 80 miles one way to work each day. He has not had a problem with it.

Dodge must have run a reservation special. In the last month the number of brand spankin' new Dodge dually crew cab (mostly gas engine) being driven by first Americans have increased very noticeably.
 
Zeldman said:
In church Sunday I was talking to the owners of the car dealerships, Ford and GM. Both are advising me to steer away from the diesels for a few more years. Seems both brands have a lot of trouble with the diesel particulate filter (DPF). Both told me the DPF is more than half of the warranty work coming in right now. And one of the mechanics agrees.
Click to expand...

It's true for the Dodge guys, too. My next door neighbor is a Dodge diesel mechanic for local dealership. He noted the DPF filters being a common issue and not cheap to replace in the least. He didn't cite a reason for it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the short-cycle time of people buying them as daily drivers has something to do with it. A lot of guys are dealing with it on the new trucks until warranty period is over (in states that don't do inspections), then doing the delete kits.
 
Zeldman said:
One guy bought a '17 Duramax. He drives it 80 miles one way to work each day. He has not had a problem with it.
Click to expand...

So far the only time my '16 Duramax has complained about the DPF needing to regen("Keep Driving") was one trip when I spent most of the day doing stop and go and frequent stop driving in the big city.

95% of my miles are at least 50 miles non-stop at highway speeds. 16,000 miles so far with no more than diesel, oil-changes and DEF.
 
Got quite a laugh out of this Ford dealer telling this guy with a new F-250 that the wobble (clearly seen in the video) is "because your truck isn't designed to go over 65 MPH" ... ROFL... sad...


I'm amazed at the excuses some dealerships will come up with to avoid saying, "We don't effing know how to fix it, and we are too lazy to call and get factory engineers involved."

SoonerAviator said:
Everyone has their experiences with one brand or the other.

... I currently have the 3V 5.4L (spark plug seizing/Cam Phaser reputation), and didn't have a single problem with any of them. ... My experience may be unique, but I honestly don't think the Triton engines are as bad as some make them out to be, especially given the number of those 4.6L/5.4Ls they produced across all trucks/vans/SUVs.
Click to expand...

It's unique. Class action lawsuits against auto makers RARELY win, and the Triton spark plug one, definitely won. It's a dumb-ass design they should have known well better than doing after over 100 years of putting spark plugs in blocks. Seriously.

Probably should have been a class action on the cam phasers, too... but there wasn't. And yeah, I just paid for that one on the wifey's Ford/Lincoln, and the local mechanics knew exactly what it was when I drove it on to their lot before I even walked inside and described it for them.

Stuff like that is truly inexcusable to do to customers, but it's not like Ford is any different from the others in this regard. Dodge should have had their pants sued off over the "death wobble" front steering in their older HD trucks, too. Completely mis-designed, and I paid to put aftermarket fixes for that on a few years ago when we had the blown head gasket (my fault) on the Cummins. Was no reason to put ourselves in any risk and known jeopardy of loss of steering control over that stupid design, while towing heavy.

Zeldman said:
In church Sunday I was talking to the owners of the car dealerships, Ford and GM. Both are advising me to steer away from the diesels for a few more years. Seems both brands have a lot of trouble with the diesel particulate filter (DPF). Both told me the DPF is more than half of the warranty work coming in right now. And one of the mechanics agrees.
Click to expand...

Been like that since the DPF systems came out. I may be a pessimist here, but I see no end to those problems any time soon. They've had plenty of years to straighten that crap out. The real problem is, you're engineering multiple problems INTO the system instead of engineering them OUT, to placate the government. The inherent problems in adding chicken pee to diesel engines, are always going to be there. The question really is, can the engineers make them less annoying and costly to fix when the known problems actually occur... maintainability and repair... since their hands are tied on just throwing the entire system away, like it should be.
 
Are any of you familiar with this guys videos?
I watch him occasionally and came across this video. He made "some" fair points but others seemed misguided. He complained about the DEF regen on Ford as if all other diesels didn't do the same thing. I understand Ford has their problems, but in this video he seems to exaggerate a fair amount and didn't really talk about the facts, more just seemed to keep saying "ford sucks".
 
All this talk about new trucks just makes me want to find a decent older Ford with the 300 straight 6 and manual transmission, fix it up, and call it a day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top