[NA] Car A/C?

So - agree that adding refrigerant without diagnosing is imprudent. That should be an R-134 car, so the cold-making-gas is still readily available.

My old Custom Cruiser had been running for years with R414A (a drop-in replacement for R12), but that 's no longer available. Converting to R134 is tedious, and 134 is on a life-limit now, as well. Other alleged "drop-in" refrigerants are breathtakingly costly.

Then, there's R152 (difluoroethane). Got the suggestions from somewhere, don't recall. It's not a greenhouse gas (very good!), so if you have a vehicle that loses refrigerant slowly and is arguably not worth spending big coin to repair, look into it. Sold at Costco and office supply houses under the name, "Dust Off." Yep, keyboard spray. I charged-up the Cruiser, and it works great, quite nearly as well as the original R12 did. And, cheap.
 
SkyChaser said:
The air conditioning in my car gave up the ghost about two weeks ago. I was going to just tough it out because repairs cost money...but it is so hot! (I know. Only mid-90s. For you southern desert people, it's probably sweater weather!) However, my ability to stand the heat directly relates to the cost of the repair. LOL

The car is a 98 Ford Escort ZX2, if it matters. The blower/fan works quite well, but the air being blown is not cooled. Any ideas as to how much it would cost to fix it, or what might be wrong with it?
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How many miles you got on that?
 
SCCutler said:
Converting to R134 is tedious
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Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.

Back at the shop in the early 2000s we found ourselves converting a large number of cars that came in the shop. Most had been on their original R12 charge (a lot of Jaguars from the 80s and early 90s) which had then leaked out.

I realize if you read an article on the full correct way it includes swapping oil, etc. Most of the time when we did conversions it was because there was a major component that had failed (such as the compressor) and so the oil situation was automatically handled - we had to put new oil in. But all we ever did was replace what we were going to replace (we did usually recommend doing all the O-rings since they were old, but that didn't always get approval), usually pump some of the new/correct oil in, and charge it. Never saw an issue from doing it that way. The only issues we had were if someone cheaped out on replacing things we told them needed replaced, and then had to bring the car back in.

Oh yeah, and put the adapter fittings on.

Otherwise, no big deal.
 
bnt83 said:
How many miles you got on that?
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Not very many for a car as old as I am! My odometer reads 110936 right now. I blame it on the fact an elderly couple in my town owned it before I did (per the tab receipt in the glove compartment!), and I guess they mostly used it to drive to Rochester for doctor appointments so the mileage didn't accrue as might be expected. I am working on it, though! LOL

In case anyone is worried, I am not going to try adding anything to my ac without someone qualified actually looking at it and telling me what the problem is. I wish I knew what I was doing enough to fuss with the engine compartment, but I don't! Besides the ac, the car runs beautifully and I really don't want to mess with it and end up with a different or bigger problem.

And you guys had some pretty spiffy first cars! My ride is sweet, though, too - classic Ford blue and almost new if you look from the front or back. The sides look like they've got 22 years of rust, though! ;)
 
SkyChaser said:
Not very many for a car as old as I am! My odometer reads 110936 right now. I blame it on the fact an elderly couple in my town owned it before I did (per the tab receipt in the glove compartment!), and I guess they mostly used it to drive to Rochester for doctor appointments so the mileage didn't accrue as might be expected. I am working on it, though! LOL

In case anyone is worried, I am not going to try adding anything to my ac without someone qualified actually looking at it and telling me what the problem is. I wish I knew what I was doing enough to fuss with the engine compartment, but I don't! Besides the ac, the car runs beautifully and I really don't want to mess with it and end up with a different or bigger problem.

And you guys had some pretty spiffy first cars! My ride is sweet, though, too - classic Ford blue and almost new if you look from the front or back. The sides look like they've got 22 years of rust, though! ;)
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I just wanted to brag that my 1998 Chevy Lumina nearing 174k miles still has working air conditioning! To my knowledge it has never needed repairs. I think Dad bought this car with about 25k miles on it.

The 3.1L sounds like it could explode at anytime tho. I think they all sound like that. My mom's and brother's old 3.1L all rattled a lot
 
bnt83 said:
I just wanted to brag that my 1998 Chevy Lumina nearing 174k miles still has working air conditioning!

The 3.1L sound like it could explode at anytime tho. I think they all sound like that. My mom's and brother's old 3.1L all rattled a lot
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Haha! You can have your ac - my engine still purrs instead of rattling! ;)
 
SkyChaser said:
Not very many for a car as old as I am! My odometer reads 110936 right now. I blame it on the fact an elderly couple in my town owned it before I did (per the tab receipt in the glove compartment!), and I guess they mostly used it to drive to Rochester for doctor appointments so the mileage didn't accrue as might be expected. I am working on it, though! LOL

In case anyone is worried, I am not going to try adding anything to my ac without someone qualified actually looking at it and telling me what the problem is. I wish I knew what I was doing enough to fuss with the engine compartment, but I don't! Besides the ac, the car runs beautifully and I really don't want to mess with it and end up with a different or bigger problem.

And you guys had some pretty spiffy first cars! My ride is sweet, though, too - classic Ford blue and almost new if you look from the front or back. The sides look like they've got 22 years of rust, though! ;)
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Y'know, the COVID lockdown could be a great time for you to learn auto mechanics....

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Half Fast said:
Y'know, the COVID lockdown could be a great time for you to learn auto mechanics....

View attachment 86836
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Except I've been driving my car to work every day the whole time...

I think I should start with a book or a video, anyway. I get that dismantling something can be a good way to learn how something works, but a car might be a bit much! LOL
 
Get a gauge to put on it. They used to have little tire gauge style ones you could connect to the low side and get an idea of how much charge was in the system. On an older car if it’s slightly low I’d just top it off personally. If it’s nearly empty you have a nasty leak and it needs professional help, if it’s full something is broken and it needs professional help.
 
Most auto parts store have the cans of refrigerant (yours is R134A) that have a gauge on top. You can see if you have refrigerant by plugging that in and checking. The high and low pressure ports are a different size.

If you don't see refrigerant, you can add a dye to the oil and see where it's leaking. As others have said, it's likely an O ring. You can buy a manifold with 5 foot hoses and vacuum pump of eBay for around $90-140. Hooking those up are fairly straight forward, and there are videos on YouTube that can guide you through it. You can use the center (yellow) line to suck in dye and see where your leak is. (A special tool will be used to unlock the coupling so you can change the O-ring.

Putting the system under vacuum is done through the same manifold. You can put your system under vacuum to check for leaks and to boil-out any fluid. Charging is done via the same manifold tool.
 
Half Fast said:
Look at it this way - with a 22 year old Ford Escort, putting in a can of refrigerant will double the value of the car.

:D
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And filling up the tank quadruples the value...

jokes aside, the ZX2 was a good design for a 2door get about town automobile. I recall the sales history of the major parts... it was the SOHC engine that appeared in the 4 door we sold very many of, not the DOHC in the 2-door ZX2. Same with transmission.

I recall two or three customers "back in the day" whose ZX2's were at 350,000+ miles and still doing well. The only reason I saw them at the salvage yard was for alternators, compressors, starters, and lamps.

So good on @SkyChaser to not fall into the current culture trap of having to have an expensive to acquire/own/operate car. Keep on living thr "I drive an old car so I can fly an old airplane" dream, brother!
 
"Mike, since you used to work at an auto salvage yard, you must know ALOT about cars and trucks."

"Yup, just by looking at the taillights I can tell you something very important about your car."

"What's that?"

"Which way it is pointed"
 
My first car was a Renault R-10. 48 screaming horses. It was a 4 speed. It had an A/C system on it that didn't work. I removed it to get rid of the weight, oh to be 18 again. I was willing to make that trade for one more car (1971 Mercury Capri 2000, also with a 4 speed). After that I've had A/C in every car I've owned though not always working. 1984 Honda Civics had problems that way... On the Renault, I saved all the parts and put it back when I sold it. I didn't fix it though.
 
My first vehicle was a 1950 F1 truck with original flathead straight 6 engine and 3-speed manual transmission. No AC and heater was an old quilt.

and yes, I got teased with a lot of Sanford and Son references.
 
AggieMike88 said:
My first vehicle was a 1950 F1 truck with original flathead straight 6 engine and 3-speed manual transmission. No AC and heater was an old quilt.

and yes, I got teased with a lot of Sanford and Son references.
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My dad had a '52 with the flathead V8. He did a lot of restoration work on it; all that remained to do was final paint. Then he sold it.

Cool old truck, and also got the Sanford & Son comments.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.

Back at the shop in the early 2000s we found ourselves converting a large number of cars that came in the shop. Most had been on their original R12 charge (a lot of Jaguars from the 80s and early 90s) which had then leaked out.
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Back in the day ... I had a 1991 Ford Ranger that I bought used. All that was done to convert it was to change out the O-rings (the newer ones were green) add some oil and R-134 to the system. My brother had also adjusted the cycle switch to keep the compressor on until it just started to show ice on the accumulator lines. It would get biting cold inside that small cab after that.
 
bnt83 said:
I just wanted to brag that my 1998 Chevy Lumina nearing 174k miles still has working air conditioning! To my knowledge it has never needed repairs. I think Dad bought this car with about 25k miles on it.
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My everyday beater ride is a 2002 Ford Ranger (I really have had good service from Ranger pickups) and it's close to 200,000 now. AC is still very cold, engine runs great, and it still makes good power (kinda a misnomer as it's a 4 cylinder). I plan to drive it another 100,000 or so. It will use a quart of oil between changes when I change it at 5,000 miles.
 
Daleandee said:
My everyday beater ride is a 2002 Ford Ranger (I really have had good service from Ranger pickups) and it's close to 200,000 now. AC is still very cold, engine runs great, and it still makes good power (kinda a misnomer as it's a 4 cylinder). I plan to drive it another 100,000 or so. It will use a quart of oil between changes when I change it at 5,000 miles.
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It has the 2.3L? That was one of Ford's better designs in the day.

Make sure the transmission gets out on a regular service schedule... they were good and long lasting, but only if you routinely changed filter and fluid. Doing so, you can easily get well beyond your desired 300k mark.
 
AggieMike88 said:
It has the 2.3L? That was one of Ford's better designs in the day.

Make sure the transmission gets out on a regular service schedule... they were good and long lasting, but only if you routinely changed filter and fluid. Doing so, you can easily get well beyond your desired 300k mark.
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Mine has the third pedal on the floor ... :)
 
jsstevens said:
My first car was a Renault R-10. 48 screaming horses. It was a 4 speed. It had an A/C system on it that didn't work. I removed it to get rid of the weight, oh to be 18 again. I was willing to make that trade for one more car (1971 Mercury Capri 2000, also with a 4 speed). After that I've had A/C in every car I've owned though not always working. 1984 Honda Civics had problems that way... On the Renault, I saved all the parts and put it back when I sold it. I didn't fix it though.
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Oy Vey - another former Renault 10 guy!

My family bough two at once at Snuffy Smith Motors in Dallas in 1969. One yellow, one blue, and both air conditioned. $3500.00 the pair. The AC actually worked pretty well, but it did not help the already-glacial "acceleration." So, they sold one, and I got the other one (it had been collision damaged, so the front clip had perfect paint, while the factory paint on the rest of the car faded and sloughed off). Then Bertram Flashnick (yes, that was his name) turned left in front of me and that one was totalled.

I bought another one, a 1971 with lots of miles, drove it for about a year, including driving it to New York for the summer of '77. It started smoking pretty badly, so I figured I'd overhaul the engine after I got home to Dallas. As if. Spun a main bearing in upstate New York, and I sold it to a parts house counterguy for $10.00. Maybe it was $20.00.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Millennial anti theft device?
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Only thanks to Boomers refusing to buy cars with manuals or teach their kids how to drive them. I finally just bought one and taught myself.
 
Hey! If everybody learns how to drive stick, it won't be so special anymore. ;)

I love my manual. The only complaint is I wish it had six forward gears instead of five because I occasionally try to shift to sixth if I am not paying attention, but they are so stinking fun to drive! I thought I was crazy when I bought a vehicle I couldn't even drive off the lot, but once you learn, it is awesome. Plus, most millennials think you have some sort of superpower because you drive a stick. LOL The other great parts are fuel economy - I still get 32-34 mpg - and the fact that no one ever asks if they can borrow my car to go somewhere...
 
SkyChaser said:
Hey! If everybody learns how to drive stick, it won't be so special anymore. ;)

I love my manual. The only complaint is I wish it had six forward gears instead of five because I occasionally try to shift to sixth if I am not paying attention, but they are so stinking fun to drive! I thought I was crazy when I bought a vehicle I couldn't even drive off the lot, but once you learn, it is awesome. Plus, most millennials think you have some sort of superpower because you drive a stick. LOL The other great parts are fuel economy - I still get 32-34 mpg - and the fact that no one ever asks if they can borrow my car to go somewhere...
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So have you learned to do a heel-&-toe downshift while trail braking into a fast corner?
 
Half Fast said:
So have you learned to do a heel-&-toe downshift while trail braking into a fast corner?
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Some vehicles require a good bit of modification of pedal positions to make that ergonomically possible.
 
Half Fast said:
So have you learned to do a heel-&-toe downshift while trail braking into a fast corner?
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Um...no? It sounds like fun, though! LOL I had to go look up what trail braking even was, just to find out I already do that a lot, mostly because I go too fast around corners. ;) I usually just clutch, brake and turn while putting car into desired final gear, and then get off the clutch and get on the gas when I am at the right speed and location in my turn. Is that bad form?! In normal driving, I hardly ever downshift, to be honest. It is hard to find a hill steep enough to require it, and with only five gears, I have to go under 35 mph to downshift to fourth. I am by no means a "good" manual driver and most of the stuff I do is sort of made up - my dad taught me the basics, but he hadn't driven stick since the early 80s, so I probably have some interesting habits to someone who knows what they are doing. I do know how to use the heel-toe maneuver when starting on a hill - people do not understand the concept of a car rolling backward anymore!
 
SkyChaser said:
I love my manual. The only complaint is I wish it had six forward gears instead of five because I occasionally try to shift to sixth if I am not paying attention, but they are so stinking fun to drive!
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It's easy to get mixed up a bit. My Ranger is a five speed but the 74 VW Bug is a four speed and, yes, I have caught myself reaching over to see if someone added a fifth gear since I drove it last. The bike is a five speed and I wish it had another gear.
 
Daleandee said:
It's easy to get mixed up a bit. My Ranger is a five speed but the 74 VW Bug is a four speed and, yes, I have caught myself reaching over to see if someone added a fifth gear since I drove it last. The bike is a five speed and I wish it had another gear.
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You wish for another gear for your motorcycle, I wish for a motorcycle. The only bike I have does have 20 gears, but of course, I'm the motor.
 
I'm really enjoying my single speed setup....
 
Down shifting was used to decelerate on cars with older type brakes that would fade out to nothing and/or wear out prematurely when driven hard. It's a cool skill to have but with modern cars it's not really needed. (Other than the hills...)
 
jsstevens said:
Down shifting was used to decelerate on cars with older type brakes that would fade out to nothing and/or wear out prematurely when driven hard. It's a cool skill to have but with modern cars it's not really needed. (Other than the hills...)
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Sure it’s needed. My truck sounds much cooler on decel with the jakes working. ;)

Of course it’s really the variable geometry turbo and not really jakes, but let’s not get picky. Sounds the same!
 
jsstevens said:
Down shifting was used to decelerate on cars with older type brakes that would fade out to nothing and/or wear out prematurely when driven hard. It's a cool skill to have but with modern cars it's not really needed. (Other than the hills...)
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Try a few hot laps at Sebring and see how well your brakes hold up. ;)
 
Sounding cool of course being the other reason to downshift. :)

As for Sebring, I've not driven there. but I did do a NISMO event at Homestead. For the few laps we did the professional driver instructors told us "Stand on the brakes and let the ABS deal with it." Hey, it was their car, so OK.

I can, in fact, downshift just fine. But for even spirited street driving, it's unlikely that your modern disc brakes can't cope.
 
jsstevens said:
Sounding cool of course being the other reason to downshift. :)

As for Sebring, I've not driven there. but I did do a NISMO event at Homestead. For the few laps we did the professional driver instructors told us "Stand on the brakes and let the ABS deal with it." Hey, it was their car, so OK.

I can, in fact, downshift just fine. But for even spirited street driving, it's unlikely that your modern disc brakes can't cope.
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To me a proper downshifting is more just about proper driving technique with a manual transmission. And it's more fun. :)
 
People laughed at me for buying a truck in Alaska with A/C.

They weren't laughing on the 3 days of summer when I needed A/C....
 
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