My second near head on with an air tractor

Jim K

Jim K

360 For Spacing
Management Council Member
PoA Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
6,108
Location
Knee deep in a Lycoming
Display Name
Display name:
Richard Digits
Took a couple friends up flying today, decided to get lunch at Mattoon. Got the awos, wind calm. Mto has an ils on 29, so that was my plan. (Not flying the approach, but assuming the ils rw would be the calm wind rw)

Tuned up the ctaf, two cessnas in the pattern, both landing 11, so I decided to follow them. Announced at 8 miles, 5 miles, turning downwind, base, & final. The second cessna was taxiing off 11 as I turned final.

As I rounded out and transitioned my eyes to the far end of the runway... there's a frigging airplane there:yikes:. Air tractor landing on runway 29....no radio calls whatsoever.

About the time I realized what was going on, I touched down (hard) and heard a mumble on the ctaf "I see you, ill go over to the right". He stopped descending maybe 100' above the runway and paralleled it to his right side, I got over to my right as well. I was planning to exit into the grass until it appeared he had stopped descending.

He went around and landed on 29 as we were deboarding. While we were eating we saw him depart 11.:rolleyes1: I can only assume he was working somewhere east of the field.

Thought about filing an asrs, but there's really nothing to learn besides keep your eyes open. Do you all think it'd be worth doing?

Lunch was excellent as always, and the fbo is running an osh special 75 cents off, so I bought 60 gallons at $4.07.

Be careful out there.
 
Jim K said:
Thought about filing an asrs, but there's really nothing to learn besides keep your eyes open. Do you all think it'd be worth doing?
Click to expand...


My thoughts.... no.

Non-towered airport, no radio required.

It appears you both saw and avoided without excessive maneuvering.

To me this just reinforces what was ingrained in me during training.....keep your eyes wide open.
 
It's a fairly common occurrence this time of year in the midwest. I was flying with a student yesterday and had almost the same experience. My student elected to do a go around, which was a good choice given the circumstances.

My personal thought on the ASRS is that it would be a waste of time for the same reason Zeldman already wrote.
 
I fly skydivers here in the Midwest and our dropzone is surrounded by cornfields. We are constantly having near misses despite doing everything we can to work with the aerial applicators. Bunch of cowboys giving pilots a bad name.
 
Jim K said:
Took a couple friends up flying today, decided to get lunch at Mattoon. Got the awos, wind calm. Mto has an ils on 29, so that was my plan. (Not flying the approach, but assuming the ils rw would be the calm wind rw)

Tuned up the ctaf, two cessnas in the pattern, both landing 11, so I decided to follow them. Announced at 8 miles, 5 miles, turning downwind, base, & final. The second cessna was taxiing off 11 as I turned final.

As I rounded out and transitioned my eyes to the far end of the runway... there's a frigging airplane there:yikes:. Air tractor landing on runway 29....no radio calls whatsoever.

About the time I realized what was going on, I touched down (hard) and heard a mumble on the ctaf "I see you, ill go over to the right". He stopped descending maybe 100' above the runway and paralleled it to his right side, I got over to my right as well. I was planning to exit into the grass until it appeared he had stopped descending.

He went around and landed on 29 as we were deboarding. While we were eating we saw him depart 11.:rolleyes1: I can only assume he was working somewhere east of the field.

Thought about filing an asrs, but there's really nothing to learn besides keep your eyes open. Do you all think it'd be worth doing?

Lunch was excellent as always, and the fbo is running an osh special 75 cents off, so I bought 60 gallons at $4.07.

Be careful out there.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem ARSR worthy to me. Your "...but assuming the ils rw would be the calm wind rw..." caught my attention. There are many airports where the only ILS is contrary to the usual flow of traffic. Be it an 'advertised' Calm Wind Runway or not. AF/D Remarks don't advertise one at MTO like some do. Not a factor in this incident, just gettin it out there
 
Zeldman said:
My thoughts.... no.

Non-towered airport, no radio required.

It appears you both saw and avoided without excessive maneuvering.

To me this just reinforces what was ingrained in me during training.....keep your eyes wide open.
Click to expand...
Sorry Billy but I disagree. The tractor pilot was being lazy, It's 2021 not 1940, folks have no excuse not making radio calls in the vicinity of the traffic pattern. You can pick up a quality hand held com for $300.

Think about all the position reports we do in SE AK between Juneau and Skagway....:rolleyes:
 
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm going to guess he switched his radio off and forgot to turn it back on until he saw my landing light in his windshield.
 
IMHO, reports to the ASRS are data points that can show trends toward safety hazards before they become an accident/incident. If enough reports show there is a problem, perhaps something can be done to remedy it.
 
AKBill said:
Sorry Billy but I disagree. The tractor pilot was being lazy, It's 2021 not 1940, folks have no excuse not making radio calls in the vicinity of the traffic pattern. You can pick up a quality hand held com for $300.

Think about all the position reports we do in SE AK between Juneau and Skagway....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I agree the ag pilot was being a prick.
 
He was in the wrong even though the airport is uncontrolled the traffic pattern has rules and everyone else was established on a particular runway and he had a responsibility to abide by the traffic pattern and give way to those established in the pattern.
 
I find it easiest to just be the PIC of my plane and not try to control what others do. As stated above just keep your eyes out and work hard to not run into others, regardless if you feel their flying correctly or not.
 
Of course the ag pilot was being lazy. But nothing illegal was done. It could have been an old cub.

was it unsafe? Yes. File the report but don’t expect much to come out of it. About the most that might happen is it becomes another data point which might eventually tip the FAA to taking action which restricts NORDO aircraft and/or gives them another stick to beat you with.
 
bflynn said:
Of course the ag pilot was being lazy. But nothing illegal was done. It could have been an old cub.

was it unsafe? Yes. File the report but don’t expect much to come out of it. About the most that might happen is it becomes another data point which might eventually tip the FAA to taking action which restricts NORDO aircraft and/or gives them another stick to beat you with.
Click to expand...
He had a radio. He was just being an entitled prick.
 
bflynn said:
Of course the ag pilot was being lazy. But nothing illegal was done. It could have been an old cub.

was it unsafe? Yes. File the report but don’t expect much to come out of it. About the most that might happen is it becomes another data point which might eventually tip the FAA to taking action which restricts NORDO aircraft and/or gives them another stick to beat you with.
Click to expand...

One could argue he did by not following the established traffic pattern flow and ending up head on with a aircraft established in the patten landing. This is established FAA rule you cannot cut someone off established in the traffic pattern.
 
AKBill said:
Sorry Billy but I disagree. The tractor pilot was being lazy, It's 2021 not 1940, folks have no excuse not making radio calls in the vicinity of the traffic pattern. You can pick up a quality hand held com for $300.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right of course, there is no reason (barring some sort of failure) to not use the radio but there is still no requirement to use the radio. Now, next question is was the pilot lazy or just trying to minimize his time on the ground? In the pro pilot world time is money, and I really don't blame him, or her for wanting to make a quick turn. I sure can't say I never did straight ins or downwind landings, but at least I did use the radio and planned my arrival to be quick and efficient.

AKBill said:
Think about all the position reports we do in SE AK between Juneau and Skagway....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Which is not required by any regulation, that is done through a letter of agreement (LOA) between companies wanting to promote safety in the area along with any other non professional pilot folk that agree to do so. When I was in Juneau not all companies were in the LOA, but most of their pilots used the reporting points anyway. I did find all those reporting points helpful and it made falling into the traffic pattern at Juneau fairly simple.
 
Sometimes they even do it to themselves

Small local paved runway used by crop 2 sprayers from the same company .... never bothered with radios ..... one day they both landed at the same time ... one above the other and unseen by each other .... prop of the bottom plane (1000 hp Dromedar) cut through the belly of the top plane .... dousing the pilot in liquid chemical residue .... both crashed and one burned but pilot escaped serious burns because he was all wet from chemical.

.
 
Air tractor pilots are all about efficiency - time is money. The air tractor heard your radio calls. He anticipated you would be more efficient with your pattern size and not use so much runway when you landed and get off the runway.
 
Last edited:
Hiflyr1 said:
One could argue he did by not following the established traffic pattern flow and ending up head on with a aircraft established in the patten landing. This is established FAA rule you cannot cut someone off established in the traffic pattern.
Click to expand...

Which rule would that be again?
 
This is the manifestation of the difference between ag workers who happen to be pilots, and pilots who happen to be ag workers. Not a distinction without difference in the least. I'll let you guess where the airtractor folk fall under....
 
The link is discussing straight in arrivals, not a pilot who chooses a different runway.
 
Actually it says they are expected to follow the traffic pattern not go against it.
 
Hiflyr1 said:
Here ya go for you reading pleasure.
Click to expand...

That AC covers guidance and recommendations which are not rules. As the PIC to your plane you can decide what runway you want to land on.
 
Initial Fix said:
After all that, how was the elephant ear pork fritter?
Click to expand...
I'm a fan. It's a lot though... The patty melt is my usual order. If my avatar picture was a little bigger you could see i'm wearing an "Airport Steakhouse" t-shirt.
 
Clip4 said:
Air tractor pilots are all about efficiency - time is money. The air tractor heard your radio calls. He anticipated you would be more efficient with your pattern size and not use so much runway when you landed and get off the runway.
Click to expand...

If that were the case he could have adjusted course much sooner but chose to be difficult instead. Had there been a kid on his first solo, rusty old pilot or panic prone student on the runway things could have turned out much differently.

that said, many folks fly huge patterns for some reason and use up a ton of runway.
 
Johnbo said:
If that were the case he could have adjusted course much sooner but chose to be difficult instead. Had there been a kid on his first solo, rusty old pilot or panic prone student on the runway things could have turned out much differently.

that said, many folks fly huge patterns for some reason and use up a ton of runway.
Click to expand...

There are more times when a CFI / student encroach on an AG pilot when they wonder into his operation for ground reference and simulated emergency procedures than an AG pilot disturbing the pattern.
 
I had a scary encounter with air tractors this week when I landed to refuel in Nebraska. They were spraying fields adjacent to the runway.

One air tractor flew straight at me toward the other end of the runway while I was landing. No radio calls. I did a standard pattern with radio calls, but he just did what he wanted, as if he was in another world. He was nuts. Meanwhile another air tractor sprayed the field adjacent to the runway, and then turned and crossed the runway at 50 feet, right in front of me, while I was braking after touching down. If I had to go-around I could have hit him. He was nuts, too.

I talked to another ag pilot on that field about this experience. His attitude was that if he's not required to do something, he won't. The presence of a runway and landing traffic is not a factor for him, when he's spraying fields. He expects me to "see and avoid" him and that's the end of the story, as far as he's concerned.

It's clear that between me and some of these ag pilots, we have nothing in common.

The only solution I can see is for me to refuel somewhere else. Phoning an airport in advance to ask if ag planes are operating there today, and then going somewhere else for fuel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top