My predicament - switching flight schools late in the game

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jconway2002

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jconway2002
I have been with my flight school since March, working towards my private pilot certificate, and since then I have met all the required hours. I recently spent 5 hours, split over two lessons doing a mock oral exam with my instructor...we started on the flying portion of the mock checkride, but had to terminate it due to it getting dark. I scheduled to finish up the mock checkride, but a couple of days before my second attempt at the mock checkride, the plane had to go in for its 100 hour...that was 3 weeks ago.

I was hoping to have my private pilot certificate before I went to visit my family for Christmas, but the school doesn't seem to know when the 152 will be back. I decided enough was enough and went looking at another school at the same airport to finish up at...this other school actually has three 152's. I scheduled an appointment to meet with one of their instructors and discuss what would need to happen for me to take the checkride with them before the holidays, but I would like to hear some of your input.

I feel guilty leaving my instructor at the end like this, but I am frustrated! I originally had hoped to have my certificate in September, and then in November...but this plane is constantly in maintenance. :mad2:
 
Can you show up at your flight school in a 152 rented from an FBO (or more to the point, have your instructor meet you at the FBO)?

Switching instructors will cause some overhead, and if you're getting along fine with the instructor, you don't have to go there.

Other than that, delays suck, but they are a fact of life in aviation.

Think of it this way -- that 152 may be spending so much time in maintenance because of an issue that you found out about the easy way -- by inspection. It would suck to find a bad mag at 400 AGL, for instance.
 
I agree, I would rather find out about it now then later...but trying to schedule the only 152 they have is quite difficult...in addition to it being in maintenance constantly lately, they have also begun doing Groupon and Living Social promotions for discovery flight, which clogs up the schedule even more. I have been very patient during this process, but I have run out of patience at this point.

I will have to check with my instructor to see if there is anything we can do to get around this issue...I'm afraid there is not, but I wont know until I ask.

MAKG1 said:
Can you show up at your flight school in a 152 rented from an FBO (or more to the point, have your instructor meet you at the FBO)?

Switching instructors will cause some overhead, and if you're getting along fine with the instructor, you don't have to go there.

Other than that, delays suck, but they are a fact of life in aviation.

Think of it this way -- that 152 may be spending so much time in maintenance because of an issue that you found out about the easy way -- by inspection. It would suck to find a bad mag at 400 AGL, for instance.
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You are the paying customer and as such you have the choice of moving on if you are frustrated at the service (or lack of ) you are getting from your current flight school, but before you burn your bridges, I would suggest you keep your appointment and go discuss your predicament with the other school to make sure they can take you on board straight away and get you finished up for the checkride, then go back and have a quiet word with your current CFI to explain your reasons for considering moving on. He is probably aware of how you feel anyway.

You may need a few extra hours getting settled in with the new airplane, but other than that you should be good to go.

Good Luck
 
alland said:
You are the paying customer and as such you have the choice of moving on if you are frustrated at the service (or lack of ) you are getting from your current flight school, but before you burn your bridges, I would suggest you keep your appointment and go discuss your predicament with the other school to make sure they can take you on board straight away and get you finished up for the checkride, then go back and have a quiet word with your current CFI to explain your reasons for considering moving on. He is probably aware of how you feel anyway.

You may need a few extra hours getting settled in with the new airplane, but other than that you should be good to go.

Good Luck
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Thank you for your response. This pretty much describes my current thought process, but its nice to hear reassurance from another person.
 
Is the 152 the only aircraft available to you? Do they have 172's
 
AggieMike88 said:
Is the 152 the only aircraft available to you? Do they have 172's
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They have two 172's, which are also down...one MIGHT be ready this weekend though. I would def switch to a 172 if I thought I could get the checkride accomplished faster, even if I would have to learn a whole new set of numbers for the checkride.
 
The transition to 172 from 152 is not hard, and that seems a reasonable possibility. Most of the numbers are the same or quite similar. No more than 60 KIAS on short final when light is the big one. Best glide is full nose up trim (65 KIAS). You'll have to adjust your cross-country planning -- a 172 likes to climb at 80 knots and cruise at 100.

The hardest part is that some of the gauges are in different places, particularly the tach. Having said that, I made the transition in one lesson (about 1.5 hours).

Are all their aircraft down? Something is wrong.

Note that a Warrior transition is also not terribly difficult, but it's more than a 152->172 transition.
 
Don't switch airplane models at this point if your training has been all in a single type. If you came to me with your story, I would provide you with the review that I would use with my own students when they were at your point in training. Anything I found deficient, I would provide dual to spruce up and once I had provided the minimum hours of dual required for a sign off, I would sign you off. If you already meet all the minimum requirements, there are only two issues. Do you have sufficient proficiency to pass the check ride and have I provided at least the required minimum 3 hours plus any additional instruction you required to meet standards. If so, then you would get signed off. My three hours are sufficient to determine if you already meet standards and merit a sign off, in fact you could consider it a second opinion that you are ready.
 
I'd give the flight school a chance - talk with the owner or upper manager and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised just how many connections they have and they might be able to get another 152 in from somewhere else just so you can finish. You won't know until you ask.
 
John Collins said:
Don't switch airplane models at this point if your training has been all in a single type. If you came to me with your story, I would provide you with the review that I would use with my own students when they were at your point in training. Anything I found deficient, I would provide dual to spruce up and once I had provided the minimum hours of dual required for a sign off, I would sign you off. If you already meet all the minimum requirements, there are only two issues. Do you have sufficient proficiency to pass the check ride and have I provided at least the required minimum 3 hours plus any additional instruction you required to meet standards. If so, then you would get signed off. My three hours are sufficient to determine if you already meet standards and merit a sign off, in fact you could consider it a second opinion that you are ready.
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Thank you for this. Its very valuable hearing a CFI's opinion on this matter.
 
Matthew said:
I'd give the flight school a chance - talk with the owner or upper manager and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised just how many connections they have and they might be able to get another 152 in from somewhere else just so you can finish. You won't know until you ask.
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:yeahthat:

I had the same issue finishing my multi. They were able to work it out so I could do my last 2 hours and checkride in another plane - but I had to bring the problem to their attention first.
 
I never had to go so far, but I found the flying club bent over backwards to accommodate checkrides in other areas. Worth asking.

Be a bit careful about schedule pressures. They can cause you to make less than ideal decisions.
 
Flight schools and FBO's have been operating in this manner since I started flying 50+ years ago. They are focused on their own agenda rather than customer service, and are not inclined to spend any money or use up any extra thinking power to make things work on your schedule.

They have been able to get by with this by shrugging their shoulders and saying "well, everybody knows that airplanes break" and thinking that customers will roll over and wait until they finally get the plane fixed.

Your CFI is helpless in this situation if he doesn't own the business, so you must talk to somebody who does, if in fact anybody cares whether you stay or not.

Find the right person and use the most powerful eight words in our language "I have a problem and I need your help." If all you get is the typical smokescreen answer, beat feet to some place that cares.
 
That really sucks I know the feeling wanting to get something done ASAP I was trying to get through this fairly quckly but with weather and CFI planning its very hard. That school should rent the 152 from the other school and help you out.. In a perfect world I guess. Im debating much earlier in my learning which is do I go from the school or go to the local club.. TheCLub has better planes much better condition and much cheaper, just a 800.00 up front and a 35 a month fee.. Difference a 152 is 69 with the club and its a 100 at the school. Only good thing is the CFI I have at the school I mean only 5 6 lessons and I really clicked with him so feel bad on that and I feel like its important to click with someone, but is it really worth not going to a club just to be with a CFI I barely know.. Maybe it is, I mean I could switch and there be not great CFI at the club. But I doubt i'm sure I can get through it. And the big plus is once I am done I will be part of the club and could continue renting their nicer planes.. Which I may do the whole school route and then want to join the club so I feel like its worth it to do it now I save money and i will be in the club already the other way ends up more all together. Stupid dilemmas..
 
Your initial FBO should give you priority for a check-ride against almost any other user.

Going to another FBO sounds like a good idea for future availability issues as well as right now. It's only a minor set back and riding with a new CFI is very similar to a rating check-ride in many ways and will prep you for the big one.
 
I was checkride ready in a C172R, at which point I moved, and in 6 hours took the checkride in a DA-20, which I never soloed. It can be done, just plan to spend more money.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. I am going to talk with my CFI and the other schools CFI this weekend, so I will update you with my decision, and how it all works out in the end.


To anyone who is still early in their flight training: I would suggest you find a school, or pick an airplane at the school, that have more than one of that type of airplane. I know in the beginning you are excited, and no one can talk you out of decisions you have already decided, but think about it.
 
I was in the same position as you, and I wish I had moved on to another flight school instead of waiting, and waiting, for airplanes in maintenance. I wish I had dumped that flight school, in hindsight they just sucked. I started in a 172, that had maintenance issues, and moved to a Cherokee 180. I did all my training in that, then it had maintenance issues and was out for over a month, but they kept telling me next week, next week, it ended up being six weeks. I wish I had left at this point. So then I practice for the checkride, and they sold the Cherokee! I had to start over in a 152 to practice for a checkride. It doesn't sound like a big deal now, but when you do all your training in one airplane, it cost more money and time to switch to another. I took my checkride in a 152, left that place and never went back.

Long story short, I know how you feel. You don't owe that flight school anything, you already paid them. If you feel they are not helpful to you any longer, move on.
 
Although I recommend becoming proficient in a single type (or serial number if you can), you are learning to fly an airplane, not a 152 (or 172, cherokee, etc).
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Your initial FBO should give you priority for a check-ride against almost any other user.
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In a perfect world, that would be true.

From the school's perspective, this guy already has too much time invested to jump off now, and is only good for a few more hours of rental before the checkride and a likely departure to another FBO. He will reschedule as needed.

On the other hand, they are doing the discovery flights and bringing in new students in that time who may book hundreds of additional hours, but have no investment in this FBO above any other, so will go elsewhere if the plane is unavailable.

I'm not saying it's right.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Your initial FBO should give you priority for a check-ride against almost any other user.
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That's definitely true. We just have to email the chief CFI. She does some hand waving and airplane magically become available...it's really nice! :)
 
This is one reason I chose a school with 10 172's and wanted an accelerated schedule. The dis-advantage...I paid more.
 
RV10flyer said:
This is one reason I chose a school with 10 172's and wanted an accelerated schedule. The dis-advantage...I paid more.
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This is why I bought a Cherokee to learn in.

I hired a CFI to teach me in my own air plane. I think we agreed on $12 per hour cash or for every 3 hrs of instruction he could borrow the Cherokee for 1 hr dry.

It was great for him as he had a part time job at Flight safety and some cash but he didn't make enough to rent a plane for $80 per hour. So this gave him the choice.

Anyway by the end of my training he got a job and I he told me up front he was looking for a ob which might require a move. So I went to the local flight school and Joe few with me 2 hrs and signed me off.

It was no big deal, no big expense. I'd not recommend changing model airplanes at this point.

So go to the next school if they commit to flying with you once or twice to sign you off, assuming you are ready then go for it. You can have your PPL in less than a week.

The new school might be more motivated to help you as your next step is IFR training which they may wish to capture. Having two flight schools on one airport is like having two girlfriends in the bar at the same time. Neither may really want you but when there is a competition they both feel they must win and may go to extraordinary heights to keep you happy. Use them against each other to get what you want.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Although I recommend becoming proficient in a single type (or serial number if you can), you are learning to fly an airplane, not a 152 (or 172, cherokee, etc).
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It costs more money and time to switch between airplanes when you are first learning.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
This is why I bought a Cherokee to learn in.

I hired a CFI to teach me in my own air plane. I think we agreed on $12 per hour cash or for every 3 hrs of instruction he could borrow the Cherokee for 1 hr dry.

It was great for him as he had a part time job at Flight safety and some cash but he didn't make enough to rent a plane for $80 per hour. So this gave him the choice.

Anyway by the end of my training he got a job and I he told me up front he was looking for a ob which might require a move. So I went to the local flight school and Joe few with me 2 hrs and signed me off.

It was no big deal, no big expense. I'd not recommend changing model airplanes at this point.

So go to the next school if they commit to flying with you once or twice to sign you off, assuming you are ready then go for it. You can have your PPL in less than a week.

The new school might be more motivated to help you as your next step is IFR training which they may wish to capture. Having two flight schools on one airport is like having two girlfriends in the bar at the same time. Neither may really want you but when there is a competition they both feel they must win and may go to extraordinary heights to keep you happy. Use them against each other to get what you want.
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This...is...great!
 
jconway2002 said:
I have been with my flight school since March, working towards my private pilot certificate, and since then I have met all the required hours. I recently spent 5 hours, split over two lessons doing a mock oral exam with my instructor...we started on the flying portion of the mock checkride, but had to terminate it due to it getting dark. I scheduled to finish up the mock checkride, but a couple of days before my second attempt at the mock checkride, the plane had to go in for its 100 hour...that was 3 weeks ago.

I was hoping to have my private pilot certificate before I went to visit my family for Christmas, but the school doesn't seem to know when the 152 will be back. I decided enough was enough and went looking at another school at the same airport to finish up at...this other school actually has three 152's. I scheduled an appointment to meet with one of their instructors and discuss what would need to happen for me to take the checkride with them before the holidays, but I would like to hear some of your input.

I feel guilty leaving my instructor at the end like this, but I am frustrated! I originally had hoped to have my certificate in September, and then in November...but this plane is constantly in maintenance. :mad2:
Click to expand...

Get in the 172, you'll do fine, cost you an hour, it's all the exact same same except trim is more important, that's why it's critical to learn to trim for every speed change regardless how small from primacy.
 
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Henning said:
Get in the 172, you'll do fine, cost you an hour, it's all the exact same same except trim is more important, that's why it's critical to learn to trim for every speed change regardless how small from primacy.
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I didnt really catch on to the value of trim until I started flying the 182, I couldnt get it to handle like the 172 or DA40 I'd been flying. Then the lightbulb came on. I did a flight awhile back with a CFI and he commented on my use of trim; it became automatic.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I didnt really catch on to the value of trim until I started flying the 182, I couldnt get it to handle like the 172 or DA40 I'd been flying. Then the lightbulb came on. I did a flight awhile back with a CFI and he commented on my use of trim; it became automatic.
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Yup.

Purely a practical answer...

For the OP, if you're going to fly 172s after the checkride, no brainer... Just go fly it. You're going to have to do it sometime anyway.

If you're going to keep flying the 152, wait.

I'm not a CFI and won't comment on the training differences.

Yes, it'll cost you $. Everything in this hobby does sooner or later. :)
 
Well I met with my current CFI over the weekend, and he expressed how ticked off he was at this whole situation. I had asked about switching to one of our 172's, but he advised against it at this point. The 172 has an autopilot and GPS system that he didn't want to add to the equation at this point in the game, along with everything the 172 itself brought to the table.

I also had an appointment with the chief CFI at another flight school that day. The plan was just to talk, and decide if making the switch would be worth it. I was going to have to really be persuaded to leave my current instructor, but I thought I should give it a shot. Well the appointment I made with the CFI was at 2:00, so I showed up at 1:50. When I arrived, the person at the desk said he would be 10 minutes late and to come back at 2:10. I came back at 2:10, and as I was waiting around the CFI called at said he would be another 10 minutes. At 2:30 I walked out the door, ****ed off.

I decided to stay with my current flight school, and stop putting pressure on myself to get the training over by Christmas. I am still trying, and hoping to do so...but if it doesn't happen then I will deal with it.
 
jconway2002 said:
Well I met with my current CFI over the weekend, and he expressed how ticked off he was at this whole situation. I had asked about switching to one of our 172's, but he advised against it at this point. The 172 has an autopilot and GPS system that he didn't want to add to the equation at this point in the game, along with everything the 172 itself brought to the table.

I also had an appointment with the chief CFI at another flight school that day. The plan was just to talk, and decide if making the switch would be worth it. I was going to have to really be persuaded to leave my current instructor, but I thought I should give it a shot. Well the appointment I made with the CFI was at 2:00, so I showed up at 1:50. When I arrived, the person at the desk said he would be 10 minutes late and to come back at 2:10. I came back at 2:10, and as I was waiting around the CFI called at said he would be another 10 minutes. At 2:30 I walked out the door, ****ed off.

I decided to stay with my current flight school, and stop putting pressure on myself to get the training over by Christmas. I am still trying, and hoping to do so...but if it doesn't happen then I will deal with it.
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At least they were considerate enough to let you know he'd be delayed. Far too many schools/CFIs would let you just sit there.
 
jconway2002 said:
Well I met with my current CFI over the weekend, and he expressed how ticked off he was at this whole situation. I had asked about switching to one of our 172's, but he advised against it at this point. The 172 has an autopilot and GPS system that he didn't want to add to the equation at this point in the game, along with everything the 172 itself brought to the table.

I also had an appointment with the chief CFI at another flight school that day. The plan was just to talk, and decide if making the switch would be worth it. I was going to have to really be persuaded to leave my current instructor, but I thought I should give it a shot. Well the appointment I made with the CFI was at 2:00, so I showed up at 1:50. When I arrived, the person at the desk said he would be 10 minutes late and to come back at 2:10. I came back at 2:10, and as I was waiting around the CFI called at said he would be another 10 minutes. At 2:30 I walked out the door, ****ed off.

I decided to stay with my current flight school, and stop putting pressure on myself to get the training over by Christmas. I am still trying, and hoping to do so...but if it doesn't happen then I will deal with it.
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Wow what a prick! I guess it wasnt meant to be.. I hear you on rushing and wanting to get it done. Its like making you crazy!
 
jconway2002 said:
Well I met with my current CFI over the weekend, and he expressed how ticked off he was at this whole situation. I had asked about switching to one of our 172's, but he advised against it at this point. The 172 has an autopilot and GPS system that he didn't want to add to the equation at this point in the game, along with everything the 172 itself brought to the table.

I also had an appointment with the chief CFI at another flight school that day. The plan was just to talk, and decide if making the switch would be worth it. I was going to have to really be persuaded to leave my current instructor, but I thought I should give it a shot. Well the appointment I made with the CFI was at 2:00, so I showed up at 1:50. When I arrived, the person at the desk said he would be 10 minutes late and to come back at 2:10. I came back at 2:10, and as I was waiting around the CFI called at said he would be another 10 minutes. At 2:30 I walked out the door, ****ed off.

I decided to stay with my current flight school, and stop putting pressure on myself to get the training over by Christmas. I am still trying, and hoping to do so...but if it doesn't happen then I will deal with it.
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Clearly you are doing your part. Dont sweat those you do not have control over not doing theirs. OTOH, I would have waited longer than 30min
 
Matthew said:
I'd give the flight school a chance - talk with the owner or upper manager and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised just how many connections they have and they might be able to get another 152 in from somewhere else just so you can finish. You won't know until you ask.
Click to expand...


Upper Management.......better talk to the FBO CEO.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Glad to hear you are hanging in there...but now we see how most students are treated by their FBO or flight school....and....people wonder why on earth we have a problem with student pilot retention...:mad2:


I know of several other problems very similar to yours....and I feel your pain. Hang in there and good luck w your checkride...
 
Stuff happens. My checkride was scheduled for Sept 12, 2001. Under the NYC Class Bravo. Took another 3 months of waiting to get the plane ferried and other considerations before my PPL.
 
I've had this happen a few times while I was CFIing, both to my students and to my friends who were doing their training states away.


First thing I would do is KEEP YOUR CURRENT CFI, this seems to be the biggest pain in the ass with students.

When you change over this late in your training it's always going to be a pain and cost you a few more hours.

Heck in one case the guy got screwed at some flying club he went to when he moved, and years later doesnt have his ticket.

You should bring this up to the manager, I've rented out other schools aircraft before to get a student done, doing right by a student is going to bring in alot more money in rentals and BFRs down the road, then it will cost in renting some other schools 152 for a few hours.

Plan C, pull your CFI aside, pay him separate and the both of you go rent another 152 and get it done.
 
marcoseddi said:
whatever ended up happening wiht you current school?
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The plane is finally up and running, but now the weather is fighting me. I have scheduled 4 lessons on consecutive days since the plane came back online, but have only been able to get in the air once. It doesn't look like I am going to get this done before Christmas, and I have accepted that...it feels good to accept it. :yes:
 
I havent flown in about a month a half im only at 4 hours but feel like im at 65 already weather is complete **** in NJ.
 
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