My Mac is Dead

[SkyHog]

I noticed that my computer had been slowing down considerably. I turned it off earlier, and it booted to a flashing folder with a question mark (I love Apple error messages....sigh), tried a number of things, dug out my Snow Leopard disk, and went into disk Utility.

Disk now shows "media" and I can't do anything with it.

Aren't these drives SMART? Why didn't I get a warning? Also....I see no way to get inside to replace the drive. Is the hard drive like the iPhone battery? Irreplaeable?

 

[murphey]

What model Mac? If it's not an iPad, you can replace the hard drive, altho a laptop is a bit more difficult. Then, get an external case for the old HD with a USB connector. You may be able to recover some of the info on the old drive.

 

[SkyHog]

What model Mac? If it's not an iPad, you can replace the hard drive, altho a laptop is a bit more difficult. Then, get an external case for the old HD with a USB connector. You may be able to recover some of the info on the old drive.

I don't see a model number. Its an iMac. Silver bezel, I think 21"

 

[SCCutler]

Nick, you are confused.

Macs don't break- their users have errors.

 

[denverpilot]

Sounds like a good ol' spinning platter failure, the most common computer failure in the world.

Pop a new hard disk in, reload from backup. That's probably the outcome here. If you've been backing up with Time Machine, a restore is easy and can be done from the OS boot media. If something like Carbon Copy Cloner you'll have to boot from the backup or OS media and copy the cloned disk back onto the new one.

As someone pointed out, you can pop the drive into an external enclosure to test it out on another machine. (Probably not Windows since it can't read HFS+ filesystems, but Linux can read the data I believe.)

The ? icon means boot device not found/available. Back in the days before EFI when boot firmware was expensive and limited, Apple chose to use well-documented icons for POST failures ("sad Mac face") or boot problems (the "?") and used up all the available space to make those errors graphical.

They never really went back and upped the size of the graphics to include a screen of text. It's legacy, but has been standard for at least ten years. I think more. Maybe even back to OS 8 and 9.

Note: Microsoft decided to make the Blue Screen of Death contain a "colon" plus "right-paraenthesis" emoticon of a "sad face" in Windows 8, but they're keeping the useless crashdump text on the right side of the screen as well. New shade of blue, too. Thought it was interesting that Marketing approved the use of an emoticon instead of just a frown... It's sideways.

Apple's kernel panic screen (identical to the BSOD) is an overlaid black and white all-text screen that explains the machine has crashed and has to be restarted in multiple languages and that data loss likely occurred.

SMART status is available in Disk Utility and via command-line tools. I believe it's also logged in the system log which can be monitored a number of ways, but I don't believe there's a pop-up or something that will proactively warn of failure.

I rarely see SMART warn before a drive failure in any systems at work. The disk just drops out of the RAID with no warning. With RAID it's a no-brainer to fix. Without, you're restoring from backup. Especially on desktop machines with only one disk.

I think you know all this already but I'll document for the next person in your shoes...

Best of luck. Hopefully you have backups. The backup software is built in, and works pretty well. A lot of people like Carbon Copy Cloner too, though.

 

[bbchien]

21" and silver. That was real helpful.

Get Leopard on a thumb drive, and get into system and boot it off the USB port.
But I think the above is correct, you have a bad CD drive.

 

[SkyHog]

Sounds like a good ol' spinning platter failure, the most common computer failure in the world.

Pop a new hard disk in, reload from backup. That's probably the outcome here. If you've been backing up with Time Machine, a restore is easy and can be done from the OS boot media. If something like Carbon Copy Cloner you'll have to boot from the backup or OS media and copy the cloned disk back onto the new one.

As someone pointed out, you can pop the drive into an external enclosure to test it out on another machine. (Probably not Windows since it can't read HFS+ filesystems, but Linux can read the data I believe.)

The ? icon means boot device not found/available. Back in the days before EFI when boot firmware was expensive and limited, Apple chose to use well-documented icons for POST failures ("sad Mac face") or boot problems (the "?") and used up all the available space to make those errors graphical.

They never really went back and upped the size of the graphics to include a screen of text. It's legacy, but has been standard for at least ten years. I think more. Maybe even back to OS 8 and 9.

Note: Microsoft decided to make the Blue Screen of Death contain a "colon" plus "right-paraenthesis" emoticon of a "sad face" in Windows 8, but they're keeping the useless crashdump text on the right side of the screen as well. New shade of blue, too. Thought it was interesting that Marketing approved the use of an emoticon instead of just a frown... It's sideways.

Apple's kernel panic screen (identical to the BSOD) is an overlaid black and white all-text screen that explains the machine has crashed and has to be restarted in multiple languages and that data loss likely occurred.

SMART status is available in Disk Utility and via command-line tools. I believe it's also logged in the system log which can be monitored a number of ways, but I don't believe there's a pop-up or something that will proactively warn of failure.

I rarely see SMART warn before a drive failure in any systems at work. The disk just drops out of the RAID with no warning. With RAID it's a no-brainer to fix. Without, you're restoring from backup. Especially on desktop machines with only one disk.

I think you know all this already but I'll document for the next person in your shoes...

Best of luck. Hopefully you have backups. The backup software is built in, and works pretty well. A lot of people like Carbon Copy Cloner too, though.

Great info....but missing the most important part....how the hell do I swap out the drive? There's no screws, and I found some steps on the internet that I assume are jokes that talk about removing the screen.

Can I just get an external drive, install the OS on it, and use it as my primary?

 

[jesse]

You start by removing the screen with a large suction cup (available at harbor freight)c. The screen is held onto the iMac by magnets. There are tons of tutorials about this on the Internet. Seriously, 30 seconds of googling will get you step by step photos.

Hard drives fail. Often without a smart warning. Not really a Mac specific fault. Hope you were using time machine.

Using an external drive for the OS would be horrobly slow given the available external interfaces your system has.

 

[SkyHog]

You start by removing the screen with a large suction cup (available at harbor freight)c. The screen is held onto the iMac by magnets. There are tons of tutorials about this on the Internet. Seriously, 30 seconds of googling will get you step by step photos.

Hard drives fail. Often without a smart warning. Not really a Mac specific fault. Hope you were using time machine.

Using an external drive for the OS would be horrobly slow given the available external interfaces your system has.

I'm not upset about the drive failing....I'm alittle nervous about digging into a computer monitor first tho....

Why would Apple do that?

 

[denverpilot]

They buried the hard drive pretty good to make a machine that thin.

I like iFixit's step by steps. They do a pretty good job showing how to open up anything Apple.

http://www.ifixit.com/Browse/iMac

Of course they also have repair options through their normal support channels, but I only bother with those if something is still under warranty or I purchased AppleCare to extend it.

 

[Bob Noel]

I'm not upset about the drive failing....I'm alittle nervous about digging into a computer monitor first tho....

Why would Apple do that?

To make a computer with a really really small footprint.

 

[mikea]

Great info....but missing the most important part....how the hell do I swap out the drive? There's no screws, and I found some steps on the internet that I assume are jokes that talk about removing the screen.

Can I just get an external drive, install the OS on it, and use it as my primary?

Goooooooogle, dude.

Since yours is toast you can't get the model from System Profiler. You'll have to look on the label. Bummer.

http://www.ifixit.com/Browse/iMac_Intel

Any 3.5 SATA drive will work. The install is easy.

Opening up an iMac is a piece of cake. Just make a nice open workspace on a table and pad it with a few towels to shield the screen when you lay it screen down.

Check out http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/3.5-SerialATA/ for what they sell. I'd get a Western Digital Caviar Black or Blue. Seagate or Hitachi would be OK. DO NOT get a "green" drive. You can consider SSD but I think the cost is still too high.

You're better off ordering from Amazon than NewEgg if you want to get the drive in working condition.

And you can run off an external hard drive, but as Jesse says it make your system really slow if an external is your primary drive. A Firewire enclosure is best.

 

[SkyHog]

I've decided to fix the mistake I made less than 3 years ago, and just treat the Mac as a paperweight. From my understanding of reading around a bit about how to get inside the Mac, I'm faced with the following:

1. Pull the screen off using suction cups and hope it doesn't crack.
2. Remove the display, hoping you don't damage it or the pins
3. Remove the heat sensor, hoping it isn't damaged.
4. Replace the hard drive, hoping I don't damage the proprietary connectors that are easily damaged
5. Replace the heat sensor
6. Replace the display, hoping I don't damage it
7. Replace the glass, hoping i don't crack it.

So I bought a laptop today, cost me $499. Currently runs Windows 7, but that will be fixed soon.

Its unfortunate that Apple has decided to make it so dangerous to change a hard drive myself. Whatever happened to the days of "remove screws, remove ribbon cable, replace drive, replace cable, replace screws?"

Apparently that wasn't cost effective for Apple?

Now I just need to find a way to get some files off the drive. Now that I have a viable computer in my laptop, I suppose I'll feel better about digging into the Mac.

But now, instead of wasting money on a hard drive that might wind up being useless if I damage any number of components that are ripe for destruction, I can just harvest the drive and throw the garbage away.

I suppose 3 years is a good shelf life for an Apple product? Just too bad it cost me over $2000. Would have hurt a lot less if I had only spend about $800 instead.

 

[SkyHog]

Goooooooogle, dude.

Since yours is toast you can't get the model from System Profiler. You'll have to look on the label. Bummer.

What label? I think Apple decided the label would help me fix it myself, and they want their "Geniuses" making the repair.

http://www.ifixit.com/Browse/iMac_Intel

Looks like its the iMac Intel 20" EMC 2105 and 2118

Any 3.5 SATA drive will work. The install is easy.

Opening up an iMac is a piece of cake. Just make a nice open workspace on a table and pad it with a few towels to shield the screen when you lay it screen down.

Sure doesn't look like its easy. Looks like its a dangerous proposition with a very good chance of destroying it anyway.

Check out http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/3.5-SerialATA/ for what they sell. I'd get a Western Digital Caviar Black or Blue. Seagate or Hitachi would be OK. DO NOT get a "green" drive. You can consider SSD but I think the cost is still too high.

You're better off ordering from Amazon than NewEgg if you want to get the drive in working condition.

And you can run off an external hard drive, but as Jesse says it make your system really slow if an external is your primary drive. A Firewire enclosure is best.

Looks like I could have spent about $150 on a replacement drive, or the $499 I did for a new computer that isn't set up for failure. I have 6GB of RAM, 640GB drive, and a faster processor for 1/4 of the price of a new Mac, or only a bit more than double the price of a new hard drive.

So long Apple.

 

[mikea]

Bundle the iMac and send it to me. I'll pay for shipping.

I'll pinky swear that when I get it I'll drive the minivan over it, soak the schrapnel in the lake, feed the smaller parts to Jake, and put the larger ones through my shredder and then burn the dust. THAT'LL show 'em!

Will that make you happy?

 

[mikea]

I don't see anything about using suction cups to remove the display.

It's slightly more involved than what I had to do to replace the hard drives in my Macbook Pro and Mac Mini, but I can do it and I'm old, with clumsy-fat hands and bad eyes. I just need to make sure I have a real Torx 10 screwdriver. I have a set. The problem is to find it.

SEND IT TO ME!

Right now the Hitachi 2TB drive is $60 at (yuck) NewEgg.

 

[SkyHog]

I don't see anything about using suction cups to remove the display.

It's slightly more involved than what I had to do to replace the hard drives in my Macbook Pro and Mac Mini, but I can do it and I'm old, with clumsy-fat hands and bad eyes. I just need to make sure I have a real Torx 10 screwdriver. I have a set. The problem is to find it.

SEND IT TO ME!

Right now the Hitachi 2TB drive is $60 at (yuck) NewEgg.

How else do you get the screen off, if not with a suction cup - every thing I have found says to use bathroom suction cups on all 4 corners to overcome the "magnet" that keeps the glass in place - making sure that the glass is not broken.

As for sending it to you - gotta wait until I get the hard drive out. Once I figure that out, I just might do so. I have some stuff I'd like to try to recover, depending on how bad the drive is.

But, now that I have a decent computer, I at least have a means to do what I need out of a computer.

 

[denverpilot]

The glass isn't exactly thin. If you can change the oil on an airplane, you have more skill than required ti fix it.

You could'a had it fixed by now.

There are at least three private computer stores 'round here who'd happily do it, too. Probably $100 in labor plus parts. They fix iPhone screens all the time. I chickened out on that one when I had an iPhone 3, and that's much harder than pulling that monitor off. Another friend got out his heat gun and had his fixed in 30 minutes after ordering new glass online for $20 plus shipping.

Have you even called Apple to see what a repair would cost? They ship a box and turn it around in like three days. And you could always get lucky and find out they had a recall on your hard drive and they'll do it for free.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

 

[mikea]

How else do you get the screen off, if not with a suction cup - every thing I have found says to use bathroom suction cups on all 4 corners to overcome the "magnet" that keeps the glass in place - making sure that the glass is not broken.

As for sending it to you - gotta wait until I get the hard drive out. Once I figure that out, I just might do so. I have some stuff I'd like to try to recover, depending on how bad the drive is.

But, now that I have a decent computer, I at least have a means to do what I need out of a computer.

Well, if you open it up enough to get the hard drive out you'll likely break it. It won't be transportable with stuff like all of the ose sensors hanging.

You can try booting onto the DVD, run Disk Utility and erase and Zero out the hard drive.

Lord knows that PCs never have hard drives go bad. They only use hard drives with extra magical trouble shielding Ballmer sauce injected.

 

[SkyHog]

You can try booting onto the DVD, run Disk Utility and erase and Zero out the hard drive.

Tried that - won't let me do anything with the drive. It only basically recognizes it as "media" but nothing else.

Lord knows that PCs never have hard drives go bad. They only use hard drives with extra magical trouble shielding Ballmer sauce injected.

The difference is that on my new laptop, when the drive goes bad in three years, I can remove 4 screws and replace it. From reading around, even the Mac Books (which have a LARGER profile than this laptop) don't have that option....so this is a design feature to encourage a return to the genius bar.

Not happening.

 

[mikea]

Sorry, Nick,

You wanted to try reading the data from the drive. You can look at it when you boot on the DVD. When you get the Install screen click on Utilities and you'll see some applications in the menu.

You wouldn't be able to read the hard disk on a PC running Windows, but if you boot to a Ubuntu Live CD it'll see it as HFS and mount it automagically - if it's viable.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2055

 

[SkyHog]

Sorry, Nick,

You wanted to try reading the data from the drive. You can look at it when you boot on the DVD. When you get the Install screen click on Utilities and you'll see some applications in the menu.

You wouldn't be able to read the hard disk on a PC running Windows, but if you boot to a Ubuntu Live CD it'll see it as HFS and mount it automagically - if it's viable.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2055

I didn't even think about doing a Ubuntu live CD - that's a great idea....thanks!

 

[gkainz]

I've had good luck with Knoppix boot cd for this kind of thing as well.

 

[jesse]

Seriously nick this is a very normal repair, to suggest that you can't do it without damaging it is absolutely ridiculous.

MacBook pro drive replacement is also pretty simple.

 

[ScottM]

MacBook pro drive replacement is also pretty simple.

No kidding. I did two of them just a couple of months ago. The SO's computer hard drive died, so I had to put in a new one. I then figured what the heck and upgraded mine as it was getting full. Mine was even easier than hers as I could get to it through the battery compartment.

On both I did the restore from the Time Port. Left it alone for the time it takes to do the restore and all was well. Well almost for the SO's computer. Still has a weird little artifact from the restore in it. For some reason the computer will no longer remember what wireless network she is on nor the Time Port location. No one can figure it out.

 

[denverpilot]

On both I did the restore from the Time Port. Left it alone for the time it takes to do the restore and all was well. Well almost for the SO's computer. Still has a weird little artifact from the restore in it. For some reason the computer will no longer remember what wireless network she is on nor the Time Port location. No one can figure it out.

I fixed that once on someone else's machine by booting it from a OS DVD and running Disk Utility from there, then doing a Permissions repair. Figured something had the permissions or ownership wrong, and the GUI couldn't write to the file.

Another thought... open up Keychain Access, and delete all of the WiFi stuff out of the keychain. Look for "Airport Network Password" in the "Kind" column. Could be a problem accessing the keychain if she stores her passwords (most folks do).

 

[SkyHog]

Seriously nick this is a very normal repair, to suggest that you can't do it without damaging it is absolutely ridiculous.

MacBook pro drive replacement is also pretty simple.

I see that the MacBook Pro has screws. That would, in fact make it easier. I figured it would be like the iMac, and you've have to remove the keyboard, touchpad, display, and the power button to get at it.

Jesse - why does every manual that gives directions on how to replace the hard drive in an iMac refer to the danger of destroying components if its so easy and there's no risk of damaging components? From cracking the glass, to breaking pins, to bending things, to dead pixels, there's warnings all the way through it.

On a computer that was designed intelligently, one can remove the screws (often thumb screws), and remove ONLY the hard drive to replace the hard drive.

edit: The argument that its for "space savings" is a non-starter, because we use Lenovo All-In-Ones at work, and replacing the hard drive is simple: remove 4 screws, pull the hard drive SATA wire, pull the hard drive. Replace hard drive, plug it back in, replace 4 screws.

Anything more complex than that is really dumbly designed.

 

[denverpilot]

Jesse - why does every manual that gives directions on how to replace the hard drive in an iMac refer to the danger of destroying components if its so easy and there's no risk of damaging components? From cracking the glass, to breaking pins, to bending things, to dead pixels, there's warnings all the way through it.

Why do hair dryers have a sticker on the power cable saying not to use them in the shower?

 

[SkyHog]

Why do hair dryers have a sticker on the power cable saying not to use them in the shower?

Because the hair dryer MANUFACTURER can get sued otherwise.

If someone else is giving directions on how to use it, they're not going to give the same warning unless its a realistic possibility.

 

[denverpilot]

Anyone can get sued. It's the American way.

 

[SkyHog]

Show me community directions on using a hair dryer that warns the user on the dangers of using a hair dryer in the shower (not tongue in cheek warnings).

Now that I've gotten a computer that wasn't designed by engineers from the University of Hong Kong, I feel a lot more comfortable digging into it, and I'll probably do it when I find suction cups somewhere (since no one has told me how to do it without the suction cups).

 

[Everskyward]

So the question is, why did you buy a Mac in the first place?

 

[denverpilot]

So the question is, why did you buy a Mac in the first place?

Or use it for three years without ever looking up how to change out the hard disk?

Heh... it's a little too convenient for the "evil Apple ruined my life" story that you used it for three years and only THEN noticed you needed a suction cup to pull the screen off.



Anyway... the warnings are also probably related to that some of the parts aren't easily accessible... as in you can't walk into a store and buy them, if you break them. You can find them through places like iFixit though...

People get ****ed when THEY break something and can't walk into WalMart and get a replacement part. The disclaimers from the community are for those folks.

"Told you that you might break it... have a nice day!"

(While thinking, "What an idiot" under their breath, probably.)

 

[SkyHog]

So the question is, why did you buy a Mac in the first place?

I've been happy with the Mac, and still loved it up until the day before yesterday. I wasn't a huge fan of OSX, which is why I used Linux almost primarily on it, but it was a very well built machine.

But that doesn't mean we should accept stupidity in design. And making it this hard to replace a piece of hardware that fails as easily as a hard drive fails is stupid.

I'm beyond looking for advice (unless someone can tell me how to take off the glass without using a suction cup...that would be helpful), I'm just trying to give the warning to others -

Mac: great when it works - but when it breaks, you can't fix it without destroying it or spending a LOT of money to have a "genius" fix it for you.

 

[SkyHog]

Or use it for three years without ever looking up how to change out the hard disk?

Why would I look that up? In 3 years, I haven't needed to go inside the thing for any reason, so I'd have no reason to look it up.

Heh... it's a little too convenient for the "evil Apple ruined my life" story that you used it for three years and only THEN noticed you needed a suction cup to pull the screen off.

Apple didn't ruin my life. It may be a surprise to some people, but I don't keep suction cups around my house....its just not something I usually need, especially with electronics...

Anyway... the warnings are also probably related to that some of the parts aren't easily accessible... as in you can't walk into a store and buy them, if you break them. You can find them through places like iFixit though...

I don't know why you're having such a hard time with this: Apple didn't write these warnings, in fact, Apple gives NO information on how to do this. iFixit, on the other hand, does give you the information, with the warnings I mentioned. Also - just looking at the photos can help anyone with a semblance of intelligence see that its not a "quick 2 minute job" like it is with every other computer on the market right now.

People get ****ed when THEY break something and can't walk into WalMart and get a replacement part. The disclaimers from the community are for those folks.

I'm not even sure what that means. The hard drive is a Western Digital hard drive, so I could walk into Walmart and ask for a replacement part.

"Told you that you might break it... have a nice day!"

(While thinking, "What an idiot" under their breath, probably.)

[/quote]

Right - except its a piece of hardware that fails under normal conditions. Why wouldn't I be able to replace it without risking destroying the entire machine?

 

[denverpilot]

What is your aversion to pulling the glass with a suction cup?

Go grab the floor tile puller from the data center, and get it done.

We're going to start calling you a whiner soon.

 

[denverpilot]

p.s. Have you called Apple yet?

 

[SkyHog]

What is your aversion to pulling the glass with a suction cup?

Go grab the floor tile puller from the data center, and get it done.

We're going to start calling you a whiner soon.

My aversion is that I have every tool under the sun in my house, except no suction cups. I have no data center in my house (I have a rack in my closet).

I suppose I could go buy a dent puller from Autozone. That might actually serve a purpose later.

 

[SkyHog]

p.s. Have you called Apple yet?

I opted to not spend money on AppleCare, so I doubt there'd be much reason. What should I ask for? Even if the hard drive is recalled, what's the odds they'd include the labor in the replacement?

 

[denverpilot]

My aversion is that I have every tool under the sun in my house, except no suction cups. I have no data center in my house (I have a rack in my closet).

Heh... me neither... if Karen's iMac dies, she'll have to wait until I go get one. Unless she doesn't mind me trying the toilet plunger.

She'll probably hear the words "toilet plunger" and "Mac" in the same sentence and take the thing to the Genius Bar. I love not doing home PC tech support.