My Landings Suck

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
Went today for a checkout in the 172.

As promised, we logged exactly 1.5 hours in the plane.

Did one takeoff, then navigated to the practice area, and performed one steep turn to the left and one steep turn to the right. I've never done steep turns in this plane and gained 100 - 300 feet. I guess when you are not on a checkride they don't make you do them over until they are perfect?

After the steep turns, I was asked to show slow flight, and then slow flight while turning to a heading.

Next I did a power off and a power on stall. Apparently my power off stall could have been done with a less nose high attitude and less G forces and my power on stall was pretty coordinated but almost went to the right since you often hold right rudder but have to release some just before the stall.

We completed (almost) an emergency landing - very close to the field - then flew back to the Petaluma airport while discussing VORs, Radios, and other equipment.....

It was VERY busy and chaotic on the radios, with some problem pilots (people flying straight in when there were plenty in the pattern, people trying to do a left pattern when 29 is strictly right, etc).

My first landing - I flared too high - and sort of ballooned. Tried to add power, and re-flare, and by the 2nd or 3rd try it was fixed.

Of course he asked for another landing.

Not sure how many landings later - maybe 3-5 - but I finally heard the stall horn, got rid of the high flares, and did a few "OK" landings. Not as lined up with the centerline as I could have been.

Later on, I decided to "hang out at the airport" and check out the Pilot Lounge / Airport Building. It had a bathroom, couch, computer for DUATs, etc..... none of which I knew was ever there!

A pilot that I know walked into the lounge and commented on my first landing. He is a student pilot but almost at the point of getting his cert.

He told me that my first landing was pretty bad.

So, a few questions:

Can landings look "worse" from the ground than they actually are? Like, when viewed from the side?

Why would I have been "checked out" in a plane if I was not safe? It sure did seem different than a lesson, as a private pilot, and I got to log PIC time and dual time.

I am sure all the touch and go's were so that he could keep my landings improving, and he told me to "go by myself" at least once before having passengers.

It is sort of a bummer to start all over again in a new plane when I felt very comfortable in the 152. I will miss that plane but moving up to bigger and faster planes just makes sense.

I realize I am a private pilot but today's flight sure made me feel like a student again. There is so much to learn, and earlier I stated I wanted to fly lots of different planes. Now I realize the value in putting most / all of my time into one plane over and over to improve.

Kimberly
 
I had a landing the other day someone told me it looked really nice - when it felt like crap in the plane.
 
Went today for a checkout in the 172.


So, a few questions:

Can landings look "worse" from the ground than they actually are? Like, when viewed from the side?

Why would I have been "checked out" in a plane if I was not safe? It sure did seem different than a lesson, as a private pilot, and I got to log PIC time and dual time.

I am sure all the touch and go's were so that he could keep my landings improving, and he told me to "go by myself" at least once before having passengers.

It is sort of a bummer to start all over again in a new plane when I felt very comfortable in the 152. I will miss that plane but moving up to bigger and faster planes just makes sense.

I realize I am a private pilot but today's flight sure made me feel like a student again. There is so much to learn, and earlier I stated I wanted to fly lots of different planes. Now I realize the value in putting most / all of my time into one plane over and over to improve.

Kimberly
Yep- landings could look better or worse from the outside. My first short-field landing, I almost fixated on the airspeed indicator and flared at the last second before the instructor grabbed the wheel (I actually over-controlled it and got the nose really high). I wound up plopping that C152 on the ground with next to no speed. Viewed from the outside, people actually complemented me on that landing.

I still fly C152 today- it still matches my "mission".

I'm surprised (slightly) the C-172 seemed so different to you. I just add 5 knots to the Vy, stall, and landing speed and it seems to work fine. The 172 is less like a kite in wind.

As for your last sentence, remember that the certificate is a license to learn.
 
Yep- landings could look better or worse from the outside. My first short-field landing, I almost fixated on the airspeed indicator and flared at the last second before the instructor grabbed the wheel (I actually over-controlled it and got the nose really high). I wound up plopping that C152 on the ground with next to no speed. Viewed from the outside, people actually complemented me on that landing.

I still fly C152 today- it still matches my "mission".

I'm surprised (slightly) the C-172 seemed so different to you. I just add 5 knots to the Vy, stall, and landing speed and it seems to work fine. The 172 is less like a kite in wind.

As for your last sentence, remember that the certificate is a license to learn.


You wear a 152. Most bigger planes feel different - they wear you..... I've flown this 172 before (and another one in Novato), so I'd say perhaps 4-6 total 172 flights including my night cross country.

I do agree it is a license to learn. Flying is just very humbling to me. I will never be an expert, I will always be learning.

I think a lot of pilots secretly want only greased landings. I will fly this plane again until I get better!
 
Kim, you'll get used to it. Just keep practicing. Different plane, different loading, different feel...
 
Kim, you'll get used to it. Just keep practicing. Different plane, different loading, different feel...

Thanks. I just want to be safe for my passengers. So far, I only have plans to fly this plane with a pilot who has (I think) over 1,000 hours in a 172.

I still try to get people in the 152 weight permitting! It is a blast to fly. I will slowly build time in the 172 but the 152 for now remains my best friend.
 
It's hard to tell from the outside.

Changing planes takes some practice, but it sounds to me like you were safe. Did the instructor doing the checkout fix your first landing or did you? From your post it sounded like you recognized the problems and fixed them. That's a safe pilot and that is the standard for PP. He wouldn't let you go until you were safe.

The first time I took a non-family member for a ride I flew to an airport I had been to, but never as pilot. I got a little distracted in the pattern and flared perfectly - about two feet higher than the runway. BANG! To date still my worst landing post checkride. Oh well. He was a trooper and readily climbed right back in after lunch. I did much better on the next two, at home.

And it is a license to learn, always.

Thanks for sharing your stories and enthusiasm.
John
 
I realize I am a private pilot but today's flight sure made me feel like a student again. There is so much to learn, and earlier I stated I wanted to fly lots of different planes. Now I realize the value in putting most / all of my time into one plane over and over to improve.

Kimberly

First and foremost, congrats. You are now checked out in a 152, and a 172. That is not a bad day when you can get checked out in a new plane in 1.5 hours. You should be proud! Good job!

We are all students of aviation, some have more hours than others is all.

The comments about your landing were unwarranted if the other student didn't know what your instructor had asked you to do. Yes, they can look worse from the ground, but unless you know what you are trying to practice it makes little sense to comment. JMHO.

Learning is the fun part! Who needs old and routine! I love learning to fly new planes. That is the fun part! Learning in a 15X and graduating to a 172 is not a bad thing. Now lets talk about flying experimental / RV! You will LOVE IT, and when you get on the ground you will throw rocks at the 172. ;)
 
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It's hard to tell from the outside.

Changing planes takes some practice, but it sounds to me like you were safe. Did the instructor doing the checkout fix your first landing or did you? From your post it sounded like you recognized the problems and fixed them. That's a safe pilot and that is the standard for PP. He wouldn't let you go until you were safe.

The first time I took a non-family member for a ride I flew to an airport I had been to, but never as pilot. I got a little distracted in the pattern and flared perfectly - about two feet higher than the runway. BANG! To date still my worst landing post checkride. Oh well. He was a trooper and readily climbed right back in after lunch. I did much better on the next two, at home.

And it is a license to learn, always.

Thanks for sharing your stories and enthusiasm.
John

Thanks, John.

And you ask an important question: did my instructor (yes same CFI) ever touch the controls on the check out, including during the landing?

The answer is no. And when he wanted to show me something, he would actually do one himself. For example, if he wanted to show me how I could perform a power-off stall in a 172 with less of a nose-high attitude, and less g forces, he would say "my airplane" and set himself up for the same stall, and show me how it could be improved.

Kimberly
 
We are all students of aviation, some have more hours than others is all.

The comments about your landing were unwarranted if the other student didn't know what your instructor had asked you to do. Yes, they can look worse from the ground, but unless you know what you are trying to practice it makes little sense to comment. JMHO.

Learning is the fun part! Who needs old and routine! I love learning to fly new planes. That is the fun part! Learning in a 15X and graduating to a 172 is not a bad thing. Now lets talk about flying experimental / RV! You will LOVE IT, and when you get on the ground you will throw rocks at the 172. ;)

Thanks. The other pilot actually may end up being my passenger one day soon and is a really good person who owns a plane and a hangar at the airport. He is not tiny but swears to me he can squeeze into the little 152.

He seems excited to see the Bay Tour and told me to stop by the airport next Saturday for the Poker Run / Flour Bombing / Spot Landing event and he will introduce me around . . .

He says the airport pilots' association needs "new blood" and he is tired of being their newest member (he is older than I am too). I am not sure if I should join yet another aviation organization for a few reasons:

1. Costs money (I think)

2. A pilot I spoke with mentioned not joining due to not agreeing with their politics (not sure what that means).


Kimberly
 
There's a progression in terms of landings. At first, you will inevitably have some landings that aren't just "not pretty" but that are also potentially dangerous (eg., maybe you flare way too high and brake the landing gear). You'll react and just add power and go around.

After a while, you will rarely get into those situations, but you will still have plenty of landings that aren't pretty. It's just that they are now not dangerous anymore. And then, after a while, you stop caring about landing perfectly. At least that's how it was for me. Landing is just yet another thing that needs to work out safely but nothing more. My few 172 landings aren't anything to write home about :)
 
I do agree it is a license to learn. Flying is just very humbling to me. I will never be an expert, I will always be learning.

I think a lot of pilots secretly want only greased landings. I will fly this plane again until I get better!

You have all the makings of a great aviator. Keep that attitude and you will always be trying to improve. For me, no two flights are the same, I try and learn something new every time I fly. Sometime the lesson is I should have stayed home, but that is another story! ;)

Congrats! :cheers:
 
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Kimberly, don't beat yourself up. You did fine and with time you'll have a good feel for the 172 just as you have for the 152. Next up a Piper!! :D
 
Kimberly, don't beat yourself up. You did fine and with time you'll have a good feel for the 172 just as you have for the 152. Next up a Piper!! :D

My flight school does have a Piper for rent, and I LOOOOVED the Piper Comanche (thanks EdFred) that I flew for almost 2 straight hours in Michigan. It will be interesting to go from high wing to low wing.
 
My flight school does have a Piper for rent, and I LOOOOVED the Piper Comanche (thanks EdFred) that I flew for almost 2 straight hours in Michigan. It will be interesting to go from high wing to low wing.

Careful, once you go low wing you'll never go back. :D:rofl:
 
There's a progression in terms of landings. At first, you will inevitably have some landings that aren't just "not pretty" but that are also potentially dangerous (eg., maybe you flare way too high and brake the landing gear). You'll react and just add power and go around.

After a while, you will rarely get into those situations, but you will still have plenty of landings that aren't pretty. It's just that they are now not dangerous anymore. And then, after a while, you stop caring about landing perfectly. At least that's how it was for me. Landing is just yet another thing that needs to work out safely but nothing more. My few 172 landings aren't anything to write home about :)

Thanks. I still wish all my landings were "perfect" but I appreciate the feedback.
 
I have a friend here building one.


Easy to fly, easy to land.
Cruise speed = 200MPH
Stall = 62 MPH
Usefull load = 4 full size adults, 100 pounds bagage, 60 gallons of fuel
Burns mogas with no STC required.

Kim, all I am saying is don't turn down a ride in an RV. ;)
 
Easy to fly, easy to land.
Cruise speed = 200MPH
Stall = 62 MPH
Usefull load = 4 full size adults, 100 pounds bagage, 60 gallons of fuel
Burns mogas with no STC required.

Kim, all I am saying is don't turn down a ride in an RV. ;)

For goodness sake, with the exception of one pilot in California (before I got my cert) and the POA pilots in Michigan - I have never once been given a plane ride! I have always been the pilot in command.
 
In fact, I was so thrilled to get a plane ride (from all of them) that I logged each ride in my log book. No hours, just for a memory. I even had them autograph my book for fun (thanks Ed, Tim, David).
 
This makes me wonder what it would feel like to land in a 152; all I've flown thus far are 172's and Cherokees. They are similar in many ways, but the Cherokee seems easier to land "nicely" than the 172 for some reason (even though I have far more time in the 172). You might wanna give that a shot.

Of course, I'm willing to betcha that when I start my 182 training in a couple weeks I'll be feeling like my landings suck wind too...

As for being checked out - realize it's much more informal than any endorsement, rating or certificate. If the checker-outer thinks you won't collapse the nose gear when landing, and sees you in controlled flight, they'll probably let you have at it... unless they had a bad day :D
 
If you feel confident with a 152, you should eventually make sweet landings with the 172. Right now it probably seems a little too big, the sight picture is all wrong, you can't feel what the tail is up to in flight,and it seems to defy your efforts to put it on the runway without forcing it on. But they are actually more docile and forgiving than their 2-seat cousins, once you get used to them. Mind you, I still have more fun with 152s... and if you ever try a ragwing 140, you might like it even better than a 152. :wink2: But 172s are awesome in their own way, and very easy to master.

I made the transition with a lot less hours than you have; pre-solo, in fact. But it didn't take me long to start making very satisfying approaches and landings with them.
It also didn't take long to make some terrible arrivals with them. :D

That's the funny thing about perfecting your landing technique: you have to accept that until your last flight ever, you can't honestly say that your worst landing ever is one that you made in the past. Potentially, the worst is yet to come . :wink2: It sounds negative, I know, but I think that being aware of that, being humble and not worrying about what others see in your landings, can really help improve your technique. It helps you focus on what's really going to make the landing successful.

I have made many landings that were not so pretty even though I was trying so hard to be perfect, and very few that were pretty because I was trying as hard. The best ones are a bit of a surprise... until I realize "of course that was perfect- I just flew the approach at the right speeds, visualized each move in advance, and took a moment beforehand to think about what the wind would do as I flared!" Those are my favorite landings, even when nobody is watching. :D My goals are simple and honest: be safe in the pattern, clear obstacles with a safe margin, touch down with as little airspeed as the wind allows, with plenty of runway remaining, and stay on the runway. "Impress others" is not on the list, and it will only happen if the other criteria are met.

And a last word about "feeling like a student": don't lose that feeling! Just about anybody on this board, even the old-timers, will agree that a smart pilot is always ready to learn. Instead of "Did that look OK?" you might ask yourself "What did I learn on this flight?"
 

Took all my training and got my PPL in a 10. Great airplane!

Kim, don't be too worried over a few bumpy landings. It's a different airplane, and it will handle a little differently than you are used to. I still have trouble with crosswind landings, and I have to work on that. Just keep practicing, that's how you improve. :)

Mary
 
In retrospect, my landings were scary for the first 100 hours. (Of course, I didn't think so at the time. I just thought I was wrestling the beast to the ground.)

Then, my landings were reliably uneventful, but occasionally ugly for the next 300 - 400 hours.

Then, my landings were uneventful, and reasonably smooth for the next couple of hundred hours.

Post 1000 hours, they became uneventful and reliably smooth 80% of the time.

Now, post 1500 hours, they are uneventful and smooth, upwards of 90% of the time.

I don't think you ever get those last 10% perfect. There are just too danged many variables in every approach and landing to get them all "just right". Safe, yes; all greasers? No.

Bottom line: You're doing fine. Your landings are not going to be reliably smooth for a while yet. Your instructor would not have signed you off if he thought you were unsafe. Just don't ever relax and think "I've got it made" -- cuz that's when the REALLY bad landings occur. :lol:
 
I don't have anything else to add to the thread other than something my dad told me when I was early on in my private..."imagine that you are a dragonfly with sore feet trying to land on a lily pad."

Just hold it off, it's only a 172. Tame the beast.
 
Kim, you'll get used to it. Just keep practicing. Different plane, different loading, different feel...

It'll also feel and handle quite different when you load it to max gross weight someday versus partially loaded today. Or with the CG significantly further aft than a two-person flight.

Some aircraft checkouts are difficult. Some are easy. All aircraft beyond the "already at max gross all the time" 152 will have a range of behaviors compared with the 152, depending on how they're loaded.

Tonight I did landings in the 182 with full long-range tanks (80 gallons, 75 useable) and only me. That puts the CG way forward.

Load it with two of us, tons of gear and half tanks, and it lands completely differently with the CG much more aft.

Me alone, half tanks, and only some really heavy stuff in the baggage area, and it suddenly is a "flare o-matic" airplane that wants to stick her nose up in the air like a snooty Royal family member. ;)
 
Of course, I'm willing to betcha that when I start my 182 training in a couple weeks I'll be feeling like my landings suck wind too...

As long as you don't have the bad Cessna driver habit of relaxing the back pressure as soon as the mains touch down, the 182 is a pussycat.

Manage airspeed accurately, and keep pulling after touchdown until that heavy-ass yoke is all the way at the rear stop, and the 182 will never bite you. :)

I plopped the nosewheel down twice tonight out of seven night landings. Not hard, because I didn't relax the pressure, but because I just stopped pulling at touchdown.

Pull pull pull pull and pull some more. When you run out of elevator, you're done pulling. ;)
 
Glad to hear that! :D

Not to worry, we're going in the 152. I am already safe for passengers in that one. Heck I had this CFI "passenger" in there more than fifty times.

In fact, whenever it is that I fly again, I will cross the one hundred hour mark! I'm at ninety-nine and change now.
 
I don't have anything else to add to the thread other than something my dad told me when I was early on in my private..."imagine that you are a dragonfly with sore feet trying to land on a lily pad."

Just hold it off, it's only a 172. Tame the beast.

Is that a Karate Kid type of thing :D
 
As long as you don't have the bad Cessna driver habit of relaxing the back pressure as soon as the mains touch down, the 182 is a pussycat.

Manage airspeed accurately, and keep pulling after touchdown until that heavy-ass yoke is all the way at the rear stop, and the 182 will never bite you. :)

I plopped the nosewheel down twice tonight out of seven night landings. Not hard, because I didn't relax the pressure, but because I just stopped pulling at touchdown.

Pull pull pull pull and pull some more. When you run out of elevator, you're done pulling. ;)

Excellent advice, and rings very true. In fact, my 172 landings have been improving consistently since my checkride, on account that I no longer worry about "hitting the numbers", but rather about having good landings... so I pull a LOT more than I ever did during training.

Big thanks in this arena to the checkout I had for my flying club - I had to go up twice in the 172 to show the guy I was pulling back enough consistently! He said he always sees this with people coming off 172 PPL training, too, they all put the mains on then plonk the nosewheel on a second later, instead of letting it fall down on its own.

The funniest thing was, after all that, we got up in the Cherokee, which I have NEVER flown before, and an hour later I was checked out in that guy too, on account of my landings being so smooth.

The other funny story from the Piper was when I did a no-power stall... got the bump, pushed the yoke, and triedtriedtried to "push" the throttle in with no success... a couple of heart-burning seconds later, with the nose pointed almost straight down, I realized I was "pushing" on a slider... the instructor was laughing his ass off.
 
For what it's worth, my landings in a 172 were always turds after I'd been flying my Arrow or other low wing airplanes due to the reduced ground effect and long glide ratio (an Arrow drops like a rock once the gear comes down.)

Also 172's are more stable airplanes than 152's, meaning you have to muscle them around a bit more to make them do what you want to do, like for example proper landing flares. Just like any other plane you get used to them though.
 
Careful, once you go low wing you'll never go back. :D:rofl:
I go back (and forth) fairly often. Every airplane regardless of the wing location is different but they all pretty much fly the same. There's probably as much difference in the way they "feel" from loading variations as from wing location.
 
Thanks. I still wish all my landings were "perfect" but I appreciate the feedback.
Sometimes striving for a "perfect" landing is counterproductive. "Adequate" landings (and I'm not talking about just being able to walk away or reuse the airplane) are indeed adequate. If you touch down with a reasonable speed, in the center third laterally, and first third longitudinally, mains first (in a tricycle), with sufficiently low vertical speed that you don't go airborne again, you've done a pretty good job and shouldn't beat yourself up about a lack of perfection.

Sink rate and pitch attitude from the flare to the touchdown are the final keys to decent landings in tricycle gear airplanes. If you learn to recognize (and fix) any problems with either you won't have to be embarrassed by other's comment's on your landing skills.

As to the issue of landings that look "bad" to others, my first attempt at an unassisted landing certainly qualified. The CFI wasn't paying as much attention as he should have, perhaps lulled into a complacent state by my prior two fairly gentle touchdowns following his verbal guidance. On the third one he sat with his hands in his lap and said nothing until I flared way too high and managed to stall the plane 20-30 ft above the runway. According to a few witnesses The Cessna "Land-o-matic" spring steel gear legs splayed almost completely horizontal when we hit even though the CFI had firewalled the throttle and grabbed the wheel in an attempt to arrest the stall without letting the nosewheel hit first. AFaIK, that was my all time worst landing ever, even though I still occasionally manage to bounce or hit hard enough to notice.
 
I fly 3 planes C150, C172 and a PA28-180. I am very aware that I am not the greatest hot shot pilot. I will never be. But i decided to concentrate on being a good lander. Every flight end back on Terra Firma, might as well make them soft & smooth. I am not sure where I found this while still a student pilot, but I have it still taped into the front of my logbook. "Aim for the center-line & second stripe, land on the third. Be completely stabilized at 300 ft AGL. Control your airspeed 3 Knts+/-. Know when to go around." the list is a bit longer but I found those to be the key for me. Every landing will always be different and you will not nail all of them. Practice practice practice. I also got good at go-arounds this way.Never be afraid to go-around any time you don't feel good about things, you are probably right! You don't have to be 'Top Gun', but if your passengers get mostly greasers they will think you are ! Dave
 
You wear a 152. Most bigger planes feel different - they wear you..... I've flown this 172 before (and another one in Novato), so I'd say perhaps 4-6 total 172 flights including my night cross country.

I do agree it is a license to learn. Flying is just very humbling to me. I will never be an expert, I will always be learning.

I think a lot of pilots secretly want only greased landings. I will fly this plane again until I get better!

The one's who believe that do not understand that sometimes the art of landing depends on what you're given. If you have a short runway or really gusty winds a good pilot knows how to put the plane on the runway. It isn't going to be soft, because if it is then they used poor technique.

I actually think it's sad when you see people float more than 1/3 down the runway and then ask how their landing was. When they run off the end of the runway trying to float a squeaker out, then they should ask :yikes:;)
 
You should find a plane to get your tailwheel endorsement on. :D

Yea. Then your landings could be as bad as mine.

This is where it pays off to be a cranky old man. If someone doesn't like my crappy landings, they are free to go fly with someone else.
 
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