My flight lessons plan, for your consideration.

KeithASanford

KeithASanford

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MyTurnToFly
Flight school A is a part 141 school, based at KHEF within the SFRA. Nice fleet of Cessna 172s and a couple of Warriors, but very busy. Chief flight instructor took me up for my first lesson because the CFI he had assigned me was busy with "jet work"? Great lesson. Head guy is tough, with a wealth of experience and I felt like I would learn a lot from him....if he was my CFI. I attempt a couple of times to schedule with the assigned CFI but he's busy, but he offers to set me up with another Instructor. I'm not sure how he trains or the CFIs he's offering train, but they are younger and while they may be capable, they don't have the experience the Chief has. The Chief does all stage checks, though.

Flight school B is a part 61 school at KHWY, about 40 minutes closer to home, with a Cessna 172 and a Cherokee 180, a twin and a 140 for tailwheel endorsements they're in the process of restoring. Two CFIs, one with a day job, the other retired. The Chief instructor of the flight school(the one with the day job)runs a business but is available pretty much any morning I'm available. I took my second lesson with him and he was also very thorough and tough on me and he focused on flying and getting a feeling of how level flight and coordinated turns feel, without the instruments. Real seat of the pants flying, which was a great experience. I feel like I can also learn a lot from him.

So I can train with the Chief at the part 61 school, who has only one other student until the spring when he's got several people coming or I can train at the more structured part 141 school with the tower, the SFRA exposure and extra radio work, but I'll probably be passed around because of how busy they are.

If I could train with the Chief at the 141 school, it would be a tougher choice, but I'm opting for the 61 school and Chief. I figured I would get acclimated to the 180 in the cool winter air and by Spring, I could handle the warmer, turbulent air because I'd know how the aircraft flies by then. I also hope to solo before Spring, so if they do get busier, I'll be far enough along not to be hampered by the more crowded schedule.

Evaluate my plan, please.
 
I'd probably do the 141 myself. They're so structured that you can get bounced around from instructor to instructor and not have to get re taught anything.
 
I'd go with the 61 guy. More personal service, he will know your history of learning and weak areas and how to explain something new to you. Getting bounced around among young instructors will become frustrating in my opinion... Besides didnt you say the 61 is closer to home?

I'm a 61 CFI and can be quite structured too :)
 
When I started, I tried option A first. After three months of training I had 9.8 hours in the logbook from three different instructors and wasn't anywhere near ready to solo. Scheduling and canceled lessons were a constant hassle.

Switched to variation of option B and had my license six weeks and 40 hours later with experiences I doubt I would have ever seen had I not switched. That set me up to fly another 250 hours that first year of being a pilot.

YMMV.
 
I went with the 141. When my first instructor left I easily moved to another. Also, I believe that you need less hours for IFR Cross Country if you receive your PPL from a 141.
 
I learned at at 141 school and did pretty well and never had an issue booking my instructors for my primary or my IR. For me I chose the 141 school because it was recommended by a friend who learned there and while it was 40 minutes away it was much less expensive than the 61 school that was only 2 miles from my house. Plus the 61 school wouldn't even return my calls to schedule a discovery flight,

The point in all this that one type of school is not better than another. Go with what works for you. Closer can make it a hell of a lot easier if its affordable and instructors are interested and available. I wouldn't put to much in to starting now so that you can handle the turbulence in the spring. Just go learn and have fun.
 
I don't think it matters so much to whether you do your training through a 61 or 141 school as they all have requirements they have to make sure you meet. The decision is more a choice of do you want to be passed around to various instructors or stay with the same one?

My personal choice is to go with a single instructor as I feel that I will have less of a need to repeat things an get a better learning experience than if I am passed around to several various instructors.
 
Hum? School closer to home, don't get gang banged....not much choice to me.

Another reason I like the closer school.

I'd recommend even if you have to talk vacation time and borrow or put it on Credit card, try and fly 3 times a week minimum until you solo.....
 
I'd go for part 61. 141 might be more structured in general but it is less tructured for you as an individual. If you're not getting something it will require extra training which you will get in 141 or 61, the problem is that if you are doing something very well with part 61 you won't be spending much time on it and save money and time, with part 141 you'll need to do everything regardless.
 
KeithASanford said:
Flight school A is a part 141 school, based at KHEF within the SFRA. Nice fleet of Cessna 172s and a couple of Warriors, but very busy. Chief flight instructor took me up for my first lesson because the CFI he had assigned me was busy with "jet work"? Great lesson. Head guy is tough, with a wealth of experience and I felt like I would learn a lot from him....if he was my CFI. I attempt a couple of times to schedule with the assigned CFI but he's busy, but he offers to set me up with another Instructor. I'm not sure how he trains or the CFIs he's offering train, but they are younger and while they may be capable, they don't have the experience the Chief has. The Chief does all stage checks, though.

Flight school B is a part 61 school at KHWY, about 40 minutes closer to home, with a Cessna 172 and a Cherokee 180, a twin and a 140 for tailwheel endorsements they're in the process of restoring. Two CFIs, one with a day job, the other retired. The Chief instructor of the flight school(the one with the day job)runs a business but is available pretty much any morning I'm available. I took my second lesson with him and he was also very thorough and tough on me and he focused on flying and getting a feeling of how level flight and coordinated turns feel, without the instruments. Real seat of the pants flying, which was a great experience. I feel like I can also learn a lot from him.

So I can train with the Chief at the part 61 school, who has only one other student until the spring when he's got several people coming or I can train at the more structured part 141 school with the tower, the SFRA exposure and extra radio work, but I'll probably be passed around because of how busy they are.

If I could train with the Chief at the 141 school, it would be a tougher choice, but I'm opting for the 61 school and Chief. I figured I would get acclimated to the 180 in the cool winter air and by Spring, I could handle the warmer, turbulent air because I'd know how the aircraft flies by then. I also hope to solo before Spring, so if they do get busier, I'll be far enough along not to be hampered by the more crowded schedule.

Evaluate my plan, please.
Click to expand...

School B, School A will dick you around forever, their instructors know nothing about flying except in the instructing environment and don't care about instructing except to get hours to move into an airline job that doesn't pay anything. In other words you'll learn little and from idiots.
 
benb172 said:
I went with the 141. When my first instructor left I easily moved to another. Also, I believe that you need less hours for IFR Cross Country if you receive your PPL from a 141.
Click to expand...

Why does less hours = better? The reason for those hours of XC before IR is so you are competent and comfortable controlling the plane and getting it IN TRIM for extended durations before you add doing the same by reference only to instruments. Also, you only need to do 10 hrs XC before you start as you can do all of your 40 hrs of IR training XC, so you could have your PP/IR with 90hrs. Did you have it that fast 141?
 
Thanks for all the great feedback!

Tony_Scarpelli said:
I'd recommend even if you have to talk vacation time and borrow or put it on Credit card, try and fly 3 times a week minimum until you solo.....
Click to expand...

I just happened to be on vacation the week after the Superbowl (turning 50) so I plan to fly every day with the Part 61 guy. I'm in no hurry but I think the accelerated dual will help to move me along. I have a 4 day work week so when I return from vacation I plan to train at least twice a week.
 
Good. Plan B is better.

You have already experienced the biggest problem with Plan A. Your instructor has other (more important to him) things to do than teach you how to fly.
 
141 is a joke. Think pilot puppy mill. You need an instructor who will work with you for the duration...and it's 40 miles closer!
 
I'm in the same area as you. I took an introductory flight with the exact same 141 school that you are talking about, because I wanted to try a PA-28.

I called the main number and got transferred to the same "chief CFI" that you did. My schedule was very flexible, so we were able to quickly come up with a timeslot for a flight. That flight ended up getting scrubbed, but when my assigned instructor called to cancel, we were able to pick a new time right away. So scheduling didn't seem to be the problem for me.

I liked the instructor, we got along fine. He seemed to be in his early thirties or so, and was openly honest that he was building time so he could go ATP. But he "only" had about 600 hours total so we agreed that unless something goes really wrong, he should outlast me. FWIW, I loved the Warrior we flew, and I wish that I could say I decided to go with them.

I ended up going part 61. I found a guy who is local, owns his own (Cessna :()plane, and teaches more for pleasure than for profit. The drawbacks of 61 become pretty much mitigated if you have a good 61 school/instructor. Yes, in a 141 school, if you have to change instructors, the rigid curriculum guarantees that you can pick up right were you left off. But wouldn't it be better to simply not change instructors? The operation at HEF looks really good, and looks really well run, but there's all the expense and complexity of that machine. I've got a guy with a plane in a hangar and 4 other students. KISS principle in action.

I think that: good 61 > 141 > bad 61

The drawback of the 141 schools at HEF are rigidity, and COST COST COST. My PPL with my little one-man-shop CFI will cost half what the 141 school at HEF would charge.

What is the airport that you live closest to? I've researched the poop out of the options in the area around HWY and I might be able to give you some inside scoop.
 
Well you have to look at cost also, is the 141 more or less expensive, more commute, more for gas.
My experience, 141 is more about show than actually giving a crap about who you are and what you want. They feed students all sorts of sales pitch BS. 61 with a retired guy, he will see you as a person and might actually take your thoughts about your training into consideration. Drawback, if this guy wants to go on vacation for a week, will you be good with that?

You can have a mediocre instructor and still learn how to fly well, just depends on how much you are willing to put into it. But you will have to decide what is best for you.
 
Another thing you want to consider is SFRA will be a pain in the @$$ on daily basis. If you're going to be based in that area I'm sure you'll get plenty of experience talking on the radio, even if you'll be based at an untowered field.

I'd never want to be based out of SFRA.
 
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