N
newpilot
Guest
Hello.
If I decide to train at KLVK, which most likely I will, I'll go with either Red Sky or Ahart aviation http://www.ahart.com/index.html
Still deciding between the two.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello.
If I decide to train at KLVK, which most likely I will, I'll go with either Red Sky or Ahart aviation http://www.ahart.com/index.html
Still deciding between the two.
GMascelli
En-Route
Matthew,
Welcome to the POA forum and the world of flight!!
I have a 16 yr old that flys with me every chance he gets. He started lessons this past year and it's amazing to watch the eye hand coordination he has. It's also amazing how fast he spots traffic, ahhh...young eyes.
Enjoy your discovery flight!
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
Thinking about this last night - why would it take longer to solo with a tailwheel? The pattern is pretty much the same no matter which end of the airplane has the third wheel. Some of the common tailwheel aircraft are a bit simpler to operate without flaps or mixture, so getting the routine down would be even easier.
Final - doesn't matter if the tailwheel is on the right or wrong end. The trick is to learn to judge the angles and aiming point. And, again, if you don't have flaps, that's one less complication. But, on the other hand, it seems that the tendency with flaps is to just put them down and drag it in with power to undo the drag from the flaps.
Flare / judging height above runway. This seems to be where students struggle the most. And, again, no difference. OK, in some aircraft the runway tends to disappear at this point which would make things more difficult, but in the common tailwheel "trainer" aircraft that I have flown - T-cart, Cessna 120, Citibria, Champ this is a non-issue.
The traditional exercise of flying the length of the runway at 1 foot or so is the same as well.
So at this point, we have made it down to 1 foot above the runway, and through most of what students find hard without any real difference strictly due to the location of the third wheel. So, I would not expect any difference in the time to learn this sort of thing.
Touchdown. In theory, the nose of the airplane should be pointed in the direction of travel as you touch down (with a couple of exceptions). In most tailwheel aircraft you quickly learn there is an alignment between theory and practice. In many nosweheel aircraft the theory can be regarded as a bit more theoretical - it doesn't really matter if you are straight or not. If you land all catywompus, it will fix itself even if you have your feet on the floor. So this exercises is easier with a nosewheel, but by the time you get to where you can flare with flair, your feet will have figured out how to keep the airplane pointed in the right direction if necessary.
Rollout. You have to pay attention if you are flying a tailwheel aircraft. Not a good time to go head down and start playing with flaps, mixture, radios, whatever. You can't steer by turning the yoke (unlike some nosewheel aircraft that have a bungee between ailerons and rudder). So, it is more difficult than just sitting there waiting for the turnoff so you can pick you feet up off the floor and make the turn. But, if you learn from scratch, you feet don't realize that they are being made to work harder than in other aircraft -by the time you figure out how to flare and touch down, this part is second nature.
Takeoff - again the only difference is that you actually have to have your head outside the cockpit and your feet in the game. You will figure this out during the first lesson. If the instructor insists that you watch the airspeed / engine instruments as you trundle down the runway you will have a harder time but quickly you learn to limit your attention to the panel to quick glances at the most.
Air work. Some aircraft have a lot of adverse yaw. This tendency seems to have some correlation to the location of the tailwheel - but not always. In the aircraft with adverse yaw, you quickly learn that the pedals are not just foot rests. And, as an ab-intro student your feet don't know that "it's not fair" and stuff just happens.
So, would it make sense that it would take longer to solo in a tailwheel aircraft? I think not.
Final - doesn't matter if the tailwheel is on the right or wrong end. The trick is to learn to judge the angles and aiming point. And, again, if you don't have flaps, that's one less complication. But, on the other hand, it seems that the tendency with flaps is to just put them down and drag it in with power to undo the drag from the flaps.
Flare / judging height above runway. This seems to be where students struggle the most. And, again, no difference. OK, in some aircraft the runway tends to disappear at this point which would make things more difficult, but in the common tailwheel "trainer" aircraft that I have flown - T-cart, Cessna 120, Citibria, Champ this is a non-issue.
The traditional exercise of flying the length of the runway at 1 foot or so is the same as well.
So at this point, we have made it down to 1 foot above the runway, and through most of what students find hard without any real difference strictly due to the location of the third wheel. So, I would not expect any difference in the time to learn this sort of thing.
Touchdown. In theory, the nose of the airplane should be pointed in the direction of travel as you touch down (with a couple of exceptions). In most tailwheel aircraft you quickly learn there is an alignment between theory and practice. In many nosweheel aircraft the theory can be regarded as a bit more theoretical - it doesn't really matter if you are straight or not. If you land all catywompus, it will fix itself even if you have your feet on the floor. So this exercises is easier with a nosewheel, but by the time you get to where you can flare with flair, your feet will have figured out how to keep the airplane pointed in the right direction if necessary.
Rollout. You have to pay attention if you are flying a tailwheel aircraft. Not a good time to go head down and start playing with flaps, mixture, radios, whatever. You can't steer by turning the yoke (unlike some nosewheel aircraft that have a bungee between ailerons and rudder). So, it is more difficult than just sitting there waiting for the turnoff so you can pick you feet up off the floor and make the turn. But, if you learn from scratch, you feet don't realize that they are being made to work harder than in other aircraft -by the time you figure out how to flare and touch down, this part is second nature.
Takeoff - again the only difference is that you actually have to have your head outside the cockpit and your feet in the game. You will figure this out during the first lesson. If the instructor insists that you watch the airspeed / engine instruments as you trundle down the runway you will have a harder time but quickly you learn to limit your attention to the panel to quick glances at the most.
Air work. Some aircraft have a lot of adverse yaw. This tendency seems to have some correlation to the location of the tailwheel - but not always. In the aircraft with adverse yaw, you quickly learn that the pedals are not just foot rests. And, as an ab-intro student your feet don't know that "it's not fair" and stuff just happens.
So, would it make sense that it would take longer to solo in a tailwheel aircraft? I think not.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
Well, leaving aside that flare and rollout are where people frequently get stuck presolo, one can become an expert pilot without ever touching a tailwheel aircraft. The design has been known to be unstable since the early 50's, and there is a reason almost no aircraft have been designed that way since then. This is something you do for fun, not proficiency.
And while it may teach you rudder skills just because the design is so bad, it will not teach you about parallax in the flare, something almost every other aircraft needs. Or managing flaps. Or mixture. That's leaving a bunch of important stuff left by the wayside to work proficiency in one area that can be done in other ways.
And most importantly, the OP said he wasn't interested.
As a transition, it would make more sense. But only for fun.
And while it may teach you rudder skills just because the design is so bad, it will not teach you about parallax in the flare, something almost every other aircraft needs. Or managing flaps. Or mixture. That's leaving a bunch of important stuff left by the wayside to work proficiency in one area that can be done in other ways.
And most importantly, the OP said he wasn't interested.
As a transition, it would make more sense. But only for fun.
N
newpilot
Guest
Should I train at a towered or non-towered airport? I have both near me and both have flight schools, so it really comes down to that.
Given the busy airspace around where you are, I would opt for the towered field. Not that it is hard to learn towered airport operations afterward, but being really comfortable with ATC early in the game will be a plus for you, in my opinion.
-Skip
ebykowsky
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 1,405
- Display Name
Display name:
goalstop
Untowered fields are easy though and your training will include some of them as well. Keep in mind that your airport may lose its tower before you finish training due to sequestration.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
Yes.
You want experience at both.
Also short and long runways. Paved and grass.
It's too easy to just do most of your work out of one type of airport and then not know what to do when you get out on your own.
ebykowsky
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 1,405
- Display Name
Display name:
goalstop
My flight schools never allowed grass. How would one go about getting that experience?
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
Rent from somewhere else for a ride or two. Ain't no law that says you can't go off and have some fun - even if you are a student pilot.
I did my last flight review in a Taylorcraft out of ADG - I don't recall using the pavement at all.
ebykowsky
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 1,405
- Display Name
Display name:
goalstop
No, I think that actually was a rule outlined in my first school's rental agreement
But I'll be looking to join a pretty cool looking flying club in Pittsburgh that'll hopefully be fine with grass and all the other new (albeit legal and safe) things I'm looking forward to doing with my new ticket.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
No, I think that actually was a rule outlined in my first school's rental agreement
I was referring to renting from a second FBO. But, in any case, enjoy the flying club!
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
That's common, but read the fine print. Very often it says something like "landings on unpaved surfaces are prohibited without prior permission." So, get the prior permission. Depending on where you propose to land, it may be really easy to get.
My club has such language. In the summer, landings at Columbia and Frazier Lake are routinely approved. Landings in your neighbor's backyard -- or on gravel runways -- are more difficult. In winter, the turf tends to get soggy, so that's no good.
Seanaldinho
Pattern Altitude
Hey! Good to see another young guy in here. Im going on 17 and trying to get a scholarship for powered flying and already have a glider license.
Anyways this thread alone provides most of the information youre going to need. Just go into every lesson open, relaxed, and ready to learn. I take people flying with me a lot and most of them start out excited then we get strapped in and they get a bit more nervous. No doubt you'll be the same. Just relax and remember the guy next to you wont let you do anything too stupid.
Once your up in the air and comfortable take a moment and just look around outside and you'll realize how beautiful flying is.
Anyways this thread alone provides most of the information youre going to need. Just go into every lesson open, relaxed, and ready to learn. I take people flying with me a lot and most of them start out excited then we get strapped in and they get a bit more nervous. No doubt you'll be the same. Just relax and remember the guy next to you wont let you do anything too stupid.
Once your up in the air and comfortable take a moment and just look around outside and you'll realize how beautiful flying is.
N
newpilot
Guest
Thats fantastic! I always was interested in Gliders because I knew I could solo at 14. Never actually did it though, don't know why.
Good Luck with everything
Not sure where I read, but someone got to communicate with ATC on there first intro flight after getting commands from the CFI. I hope I get too, that would be really cool and interesting.
Right now im listening to some LiveATC.net. Quite interesting to listen too.
Last edited by a moderator:
denverpilot
Tied Down
Very true. I never thought I'd startup the airplane with the nose wheel still chocked (after athoroughpreflight)....until I did!
And this was AFTER I got my PPL! Never did that during training though.
I stupidly did that on my Instrument check ride. Nerves. Talk about embarrassing.
Knew it almost instantly when I applied a little power to start rolling and went nowhere.
At least I didn't apply more power and taxi over the damn thing.
N
newpilot
Guest
Hey guys, just want to give you all an update. I actually moved back East to Florida( Tallahassee). I Didn't get a chance to complete the discovery flight back in Cali. I did however do one here in FL. I had tons of fun, was quite enjoyable. At first it was a little scary, but got quite enjoyable. Pretty bumpy and windy though! (I like it hehe). It sure was overwhelming a bit.
Also, another question. I have Aspergers Syndrome. I don't show much visible symptoms of it, you really have to get to know me to even think I have it. Yes, I tend to get a bit too obsessed about airplanes hehe. I was wondering if this will have any impact on getting a PPL. Thanks everyone, had a fantastic time up in the sky.
Also, another question. I have Aspergers Syndrome. I don't show much visible symptoms of it, you really have to get to know me to even think I have it. Yes, I tend to get a bit too obsessed about airplanes hehe
. I was wondering if this will have any impact on getting a PPL. Thanks everyone, had a fantastic time up in the sky.
Last edited by a moderator:
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
Hey guys, just want to give you all an update. I actually moved back East to Florida( Tallahassee). I Didn't get a chance to complete the discovery flight back in Cali. I did however do one here in FL. I had tons of fun, was quite enjoyable. At first it was a little scary, but got quite enjoyable. Pretty bumpy and windy though! (I like it hehe). It sure was overwhelming a bit.
Also, another question. I have Aspergers Syndrome. I don't show much visible symptoms of it, you really have to get to know me to even think I have it. Yes, I tend to get a bit too obsessed about airplanes hehe
The FAA has real problems with any sort of "mental" diagnosis. I would set up a consultation with a knowledgeable (not run of the mill) AME before you do something stupid like attempt to take an FAA medical exam and fail. (Failing puts you into the position where you are locked out of the Sport Pilot option which you could potentially pursue if you hadn't had a medical failure on your record)
You could also ask over on the medical topics forum here at POA. Ignore everything that anyone except Dr. Chien posts in reply.
joeparrilla
Pre-takeoff checklist
I am so excited for you. The first flight is unforgettable.
Enjoy every second and keep us posted!
Enjoy every second and keep us posted!
Aviatrix
Pre-takeoff checklist
Also, another question. I have Aspergers Syndrome. I don't show much visible symptoms of it, you really have to get to know me to even think I have it. Yes, I tend to get a bit too obsessed about airplanes hehe
My friend wrote an article on Women of Aviation on her getting her medical with Aspergers (but in Canada) you can find it here, she was able to get a medical for a commercial license there with it: http://www.womenofaviationweek.org/...i-get-a-commercial-pilot-license/article-450/
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
I recall being VERY nervous when going up for first lesson in an 85 HP champ. I also remember being equally as nervous when the Instructor said 12 hours later, " OK! try it yourself" ! After I landed he said "you were just lucky, try Two more" I was really ready to call it a day. Went up , did two more and then I didn't 't want to stop! Later, being taken for a ride in a Zlinn by the same instructor, he did a loop and I threw up.......very embarrassing! Most people are frightened at first but keep at it! As for Apsberger syndrome, read the book " the big short" by mike Lewis. The Doctor who decided doctoring wasn't for him, went into the stock market and made a killing. He has the same problem. As mentioned before, go to someone WELL qualified and talk it over. If this doctor went thru Vanderbuilt medical and graduated then you ought to be able to fly an airplane. As was mentioned, be careful what you tell the "authority's!" GOOD LUCK!
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,134
- Location
- DXO124009
- Display Name
Display name:
Light and Sporty Guy
One's ability to graduate from medical school, to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist, to design nuclear reactors, or to fly an airplane with skills that rival Bob Hoover's does not correlate with a likelyhood that the FAA will grant a medical.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Which is why I said go talk to experts. (Redundant.)
ChitDisturber
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 374
- Display Name
Display name:
ChitDisturber
First talk to Dr Chein on this board about your medical.
Then
If you can you should look into doing your training in a Tailwheel, like a Citabria, champ, cub etc, failing that try to get your private in a glider then do easy power "add-on"
It will make you a FAR better pilot and cost less to boot!
As for engine failures, given enough time they will happen, they are rare but will happen, knowing how to handle yourself is the diffrence between a story to tell your friends and a disaster.
Again learning how to fly in a glider (gliders land off airport often enough they dont consider it a emergincy) or tailwheel from a good CFI will reduce the risks significantly.
As a career pilot, I've had two complete engine failures, landed on a airport for one, other I didn't, on both failures there was not so much as a scratch on the aircraft and zero damage to persons or property. FWIW, I learned how to fly in the north west in a 1946 Champ.
If youre in Tallahassee, you should call up AG- Flight ( http://agflight.com ) they train crop dusters from zero hours up, VERY experienced instructors who can get your your CPL with minimum BS, they train in 7AC Citabrias. Guessing your examiner would be Robby Turner, he's fair and straight forward.
Then
If you can you should look into doing your training in a Tailwheel, like a Citabria, champ, cub etc, failing that try to get your private in a glider then do easy power "add-on"
It will make you a FAR better pilot and cost less to boot!
As for engine failures, given enough time they will happen, they are rare but will happen, knowing how to handle yourself is the diffrence between a story to tell your friends and a disaster.
Again learning how to fly in a glider (gliders land off airport often enough they dont consider it a emergincy) or tailwheel from a good CFI will reduce the risks significantly.
As a career pilot, I've had two complete engine failures, landed on a airport for one, other I didn't, on both failures there was not so much as a scratch on the aircraft and zero damage to persons or property. FWIW, I learned how to fly in the north west in a 1946 Champ.
If youre in Tallahassee, you should call up AG- Flight ( http://agflight.com ) they train crop dusters from zero hours up, VERY experienced instructors who can get your your CPL with minimum BS, they train in 7AC Citabrias. Guessing your examiner would be Robby Turner, he's fair and straight forward.
Last edited: