MVY TFR

AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
14,869
Location
Montgomery County PA
Display Name
Display name:
Adam Zucker
What a pain in the butt! Under the TFR for BHOs visit to MVY you can get in if vetted by getting a waiver 72 hrs in advance and by getting screened at one of three gateway airports before entering the TFR area. There are actually six airports that lie under the TFR that you would have to fly out of to get Screened by the TSA at a gateway airport so that you can enter the TFR:idea:

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090819vineyard.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief
 
what is going to be involved in the screening? same as an airline flight? wouldnt that be funny.
 
It sounds like a system similar to what they had for flying into Midway when he's in Chicago. Don't know anyone who's used it, though.
 
Thank god this President listened to reason re: the presidential TFRs :rolleyes:
 
SkyHog said:
Thank god this President listened to reason re: the presidential TFRs :rolleyes:
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Well, note that this is the first time since the 30-nm presidential TFRs were instituted that GA has had access to the inner 10-nm ring. (AOPA is claiming some of the credit there. I know how you love them, too! :)) Plus, the President, whomever he (or she) may be, really doesn't have much to say about the TFRs. That's the Secret Service, as I think has been discussed on the board before.
 
I'd almost bet the President isn't even aware of the details of the TFR. But I expect he will be after this event, as there will be a bunch of folks who have significant dollars inconvenienced.

I'm going to think about it a bit while I'm on vacation and then write a letter to the President, and send a copy to the WashPost, the WashTimes, the NYTimes. I have to figure out the right way to say it, but in a nutshell:

If there really IS a significant threat to the President that requires this action - he should stay in DC or at Camp David and not put all the citizens at risk.

If there isn't a threat, then they should shrink his protective "bubble" back to pre-9/11 days. Sure, close the airport for a few hours while AF1 or MC1 comes and goes, and put a small (3 NM or less) TFR around his residence. There's no justification for the current level of interruption in the normal lives of citizens.
 
The President doesn't make these decisions -- the Secret Service does. And since Nov 1963, the President doesn't override the Secret Service's security protocol decisions.
 
Baloney. I didn't vote for any security personnel. They are within the Executive Branch of government, which is controlled by the President. If he wanted it changed he could have it changed and the Treasury department could pound sand.
 
Where was all this bitching for the past 8 years? You guys just discover TFR's?

TMetzinger said:
I'd almost bet the President isn't even aware of the details of the TFR. But I expect he will be after this event, as there will be a bunch of folks who have significant dollars inconvenienced.

I'm going to think about it a bit while I'm on vacation and then write a letter to the President, and send a copy to the WashPost, the WashTimes, the NYTimes. I have to figure out the right way to say it, but in a nutshell:

If there really IS a significant threat to the President that requires this action - he should stay in DC or at Camp David and not put all the citizens at risk.

If there isn't a threat, then they should shrink his protective "bubble" back to pre-9/11 days. Sure, close the airport for a few hours while AF1 or MC1 comes and goes, and put a small (3 NM or less) TFR around his residence. There's no justification for the current level of interruption in the normal lives of citizens.
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I've been complaining about them for a long time. I nearly had to get out of dodge early to avoid one for W. a vacation ago. It's better than it was, but the whole thing is naught but utter silliness. They let guys with assault rifles into Presidential events, but they're worried about us.
 
steingar said:
Baloney. I didn't vote for any security personnel. They are within the Executive Branch of government, which is controlled by the President. If he wanted it changed he could have it changed and the Treasury department could pound sand.
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Not quite - the Secret Service is the least restricted LE agency in the country. They can tell the President, "no you can't" and make it stick - they have that authority by statute. Now it's not without limits, but they can basically prevent the President from travelling somewhere unless they are happy with the security. There is room for negotiation, and I happen to think that law should be changed and that if the President wants to put himself in jeopardy that's his call as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief.
 
I was in Norwood (MA) today. The flight school has banned student solo flights for the duration - they don't want to take the chance. Big notices everywhere about this.

I looked at the folks in the FBO and said "now you see what we have to deal with every day around DC.

I suspect the only reason that MVY got the "vet, inspect, and allow GA in" was 1) aircraft is the only reasonable way (other than ferry) to get there, and 2) there's a LOT of money there... and that money arrives by air. Think campaign donors.
 
wabower said:
Where was all this bitching for the past 8 years? You guys just discover TFR's?
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Believe me, Wayne, every time they closed ADS so the Prseident could come into Love, I bitched, and out loud.

Lotta good it did...
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, note that this is the first time since the 30-nm presidential TFRs were instituted that GA has had access to the inner 10-nm ring. .
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Only IMHO because it would be hard to justify something that large in that populated an area for an entire week.
 
AdamZ said:
Only IMHO because it would be hard to justify something that large in that populated an area for an entire week.
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As opposed to what? Dallas? Chicago? DC? OTOH, there is a lot of money in that area, and few alternate transportation modes, so your argument certainly has some validity.
 
The terrorists win again.

Maybe all the businesses that loose tourist dollars during his stay on "The Vinyard" should apply for some of that TARP money. They should also send complaints to their congressional reps.. fix this or get voted out at the next election cycle.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, note that this is the first time since the 30-nm presidential TFRs were instituted that GA has had access to the inner 10-nm ring. (AOPA is claiming some of the credit there. I know how you love them, too! :)) Plus, the President, whomever he (or she) may be, really doesn't have much to say about the TFRs. That's the Secret Service, as I think has been discussed on the board before.
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Second. They did it for his visit back home in Chicago.
 
TMetzinger said:
Not quite - the Secret Service is the least restricted LE agency in the country. They can tell the President, "no you can't" and make it stick - they have that authority by statute. Now it's not without limits, but they can basically prevent the President from travelling somewhere unless they are happy with the security. There is room for negotiation, and I happen to think that law should be changed and that if the President wants to put himself in jeopardy that's his call as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief.
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I'd love to see the statute by which members of the Federal bureaucracy can override the Chief Executive. I doubt strongly it's Constitutional.
 
AdamZ said:
Only IMHO because it would be hard to justify something that large in that populated an area for an entire week.
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Justification?!? JUSTIFICATION?!? We don' need no steeenkeng justification!
 
At least there are cracks in the 10 NM "inner sanctum" this time. I HATE the TFRs as much as everyone else here does. We all know they serve no purpose. But rather than complain about this one, I think we have to look on the bright side, hope there aren't 20 violations, and maybe we can make a good showing and start getting some of our freedom back...

Jim G
 
steingar said:
I'd love to see the statute by which members of the Federal bureaucracy can override the Chief Executive. I doubt strongly it's Constitutional.
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Believe it or not, the President doesn't have absolute power. Whether you personally believe it's OK or not is unimportant -- since JFK ordered the bubble top removed in Dallas and paid for his decision with his life (and caused no end of national agony as a result), the President is no longer permitted to tell the USSS to degrade security procedures the USSS feels are needed. The only way the TFR's will stop is if someone can convince the USSS they aren't necessary to ensure that nobody who wants to kill the President can get to him by air without giving enough warning time to neutralize the inbound track. BTW, the current 30-mile standard was set after a lot of flight testing with a range of aircraft including the BD-5J Microjet simulating a cruise missile profile.
 
Ron Levy said:
Believe it or not, the President doesn't have absolute power. Whether you personally believe it's OK or not is unimportant -- since JFK ordered the bubble top removed in Dallas and paid for his decision with his life (and caused no end of national agony as a result), the President is no longer permitted to tell the USSS to degrade security procedures the USSS feels are needed. The only way the TFR's will stop is if someone can convince the USSS they aren't necessary to ensure that nobody who wants to kill the President can get to him by air without giving enough warning time to neutralize the inbound track. BTW, the current 30-mile standard was set after a lot of flight testing with a range of aircraft including the BD-5J Microjet simulating a cruise missile profile.
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Ron is correct.

There are a number of areas where the bureaucracy overrides/controls information and process of elected officials.... and they have no say in it.
 
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