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Jim Case

Jim Case

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
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435
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AceDolphinFlyer
I am one, and I have been playing with my cousin awhile, he's a guitar player I play bass. He's a good guitar player, he's just, a total Douchebag. Today we were playing "peg" a steely dan tune. During the corus he slowed down to about 112/114 beats per minute as opposed to 117 that we play it at. I told him about it, and sparked a 30 minute tirade about how "He's been playing 15 years more than me "( no classical or theory training btw ) so he's the only musician who is beyond that easy to make mistake that everybody has done. It's especially easy to do when you are singing lead which he does on this tune. So what do you think? I'm pretty sure I'm calling it quits with him, it's too frustrating to try and play with him. I talked to the drummer and keyboard player and they agreed that if I do, we will find a new guitar player ( my buddy dale will do fine if he has the time ) and continue without him. Here's the issue, not only is he my cousin, and I don't want to upset him, he's a good player and his style is a huge factor on our original pieces. What would you do fellow avaiators, i'd ask on a music board, but he is on all of the sites I am and if he saw it it would certainly spark retaliation on myself and the other members.
 
3 bpm is hardly the end of the world


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abqtj said:
3 bpm is hardly the end of the world


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It is, he's notalbly slower than the rest of us and it gets off, then he gets ****ed off when we ask him to work it out, I even suggested we all slow it down untill he gets it right then play it in tempo and he threw a hissy fit.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Have the drummer play to a click track.
Why is a guitarist driving the tempo anyway?
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Only he is slowing down, the rest of us are locked in in time, it's the playing and singing. it's a tough one to sing lead on and play but it's in his register. We made suggestions as to remedy the issue and he got irrate and we just moved on to a different number, this had happened quite a few times before.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Run a feed from the Drummer's click track to his ear too LOL
I play mostly thrash metal so drums drive everything.
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Good idea, I will see if that is a possible fix if I can get him to admit he's the one getting off time, not the other three guys in the band, who all end in time together
 
Along those lines of make him a recording... record multi-track.

Then add the click track later and show him. That way you can turn up and down each player during playback. A little cheapie four track recorder works wonders for stuff like that.

But it'll probably just make him mad if he can't sing and play at the same time. I've fought that problem on some songs.

Can you just swap who's singing or even just have someone else sing during practice so he can concentrate on getting the guitar line right?

Lots of people slow down on triplets like that song is based off of. I assumed he's playing the rhythm guitar part and slowing up on the second beat of the triplet?

Can also have the drummer be a dick and snap the snare for all three triplets until he locks in during practice. LOL. Bang bang bang. Bang bang bang. :)
 
You need to have an honest pow-wow and you three gang up on him. Wtf's he gonna do, walk out? You three were going to fire him anyway. Maybe he'll come to grips with the consequence of being a ....
 
Does he think he's a jazz singer?


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If he "doesn't make mistakes," he had better truly be amazing to be worth it.

And perhaps not even then.

Getting out of sync is a lot more serious than being a few BPM slow. THAT says he isn't listening.
 
Is he used to being a soloist? I am involved in a decent amount of theater work and also larger choir/orchestra church stuff. Soloists are used to taking liberty with the tempo, phrasing, etc., and that's fine (and wanted) for solo work. But, when they join a large group, there is no room for interpretation or playing/singing with feeling. One MUST follow the conductor/click track/drummer, etc. We have issues with that.
 
Working musician here.

I don't work with d-bags like that anymore. Band or otherwise. If they are as great as they claim to be then they wouldn't be in a band with me, they would be big stars playing stadium shows.

I would've flipped it on him. Playing for 15 years more than me and cannot realize that he's slowing down?

I'm a bassist. I'm not flashy but I have impeccable meter and slowing down would bother me. He needs to simplify his part or play in time. As a band you guys need to keep time also, don't slow down for him.
 
GlennAB1 said:
You need to have an honest pow-wow and you three gang up on him. Wtf's he gonna do, walk out? You three were going to fire him anyway. Maybe he'll come to grips with the consequence of being a ....
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This. Sounds like he is a typical prima donna and chances are it will only result in his attitude flaring up even further….BUT, then he'll be the one leaving and the rest of the band can carry on smartly.
 
denverpilot said:
Along those lines of make him a recording... record multi-track.

Then add the click track later and show him. That way you can turn up and down each player during playback. A little cheapie four track recorder works wonders for stuff like that.

But it'll probably just make him mad if he can't sing and play at the same time. I've fought that problem on some songs.

Can you just swap who's singing or even just have someone else sing during practice so he can concentrate on getting the guitar line right?

Lots of people slow down on triplets like that song is based off of. I assumed he's playing the rhythm guitar part and slowing up on the second beat of the triplet?

Can also have the drummer be a dick and snap the snare for all three triplets until he locks in during practice. LOL. Bang bang bang. Bang bang bang. :)
Click to expand...
This is probably the only way we can work it out, I'm pretty sure he will Just blame us anyway like he has. Then we will kick him out.
 
Fearless Tower said:
This. Sounds like he is a typical prima donna and chances are it will only result in his attitude flaring up even further….BUT, then he'll be the one leaving and the rest of the band can carry on smartly.
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Exacly the case. Would rather spend 20 minutes argue about how he is beyond getting of time (nobody is) than the 10 minutes actually fixing the problem.
 
MadseasoN said:
Working musician here.

I don't work with d-bags like that anymore. Band or otherwise. If they are as great as they claim to be then they wouldn't be in a band with me, they would be big stars playing stadium shows.

I would've flipped it on him. Playing for 15 years more than me and cannot realize that he's slowing down?

I'm a bassist. I'm not flashy but I have impeccable meter and slowing down would bother me. He needs to simplify his part or play in time. As a band you guys need to keep time also, don't slow down for him.
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We don't, he just lags behind as the chorus goes on and claims we are the ones causing it to happen when we are locked in like peas in a pod.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Is he used to being a soloist? I am involved in a decent amount of theater work and also larger choir/orchestra church stuff. Soloists are used to taking liberty with the tempo, phrasing, etc., and that's fine (and wanted) for solo work. But, when they join a large group, there is no room for interpretation or playing/singing with feeling. One MUST follow the conductor/click track/drummer, etc. We have issues with that.
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Hell no, He's a cover band bar guy mainly.
 
Jim Case said:
This is probably the only way we can work it out, I'm pretty sure he will Just blame us anyway like he has. Then we will kick him out.
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Why go through the motions?

Good musicians are a dime a dozen. No need to push it out with a mediocre musician who thinks his **** doesn't stink.
 
Did you tell him "This is your big debut" and it needs to "...look good on you"

And he said the tempo "... will get back to you, like a dream come true"
 
Jim Case said:
It is, he's notalbly slower than the rest of us and it gets off, then he gets ****ed off when we ask him to work it out, I even suggested we all slow it down untill he gets it right then play it in tempo and he threw a hissy fit.
Click to expand...

How would he get noticeably slower and continue to be a completely different tempo? It's one thing to be behind the beat but what you're describing is just weird. Is he using a monitor?
 
You know, I think Tawood might be on to something……if speed control is his problem, maybe your cousin just needs a blue donut to clip to the mic stand. Right there in his field of view - he'll never be out of time again!
 
Put a Dr. Beat on a megaphone right behind him. You can literally feel the metronome at that point. - drummer/marching band guy
 
labbadabba said:
How would he get noticeably slower and continue to be a completely different tempo? It's one thing to be behind the beat but what you're describing is just weird. Is he using a monitor?
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No, and I'm not exacly sure, it's like he tunes out the rest of the band and just plays.
 
Jim Case said:
No, and I'm not exacly sure, it's like he tunes out the rest of the band and just plays.
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Ah, that's what I like to describe as the difference between a musician and hack. A musician always listens first.
 
labbadabba said:
Ah, that's what I like to describe as the difference between a musician and hack. A musician always listens first.
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yeah I suppose. The rest of us decided to move and do it without him, he precided to get offended.tell us we all are half as good as he is and that he can find another band within a week, this is what I wanted to avoid, he's my cousin and I didn't want this animosity between us, this was supposed to be fun after all
 
Jim Case said:
yeah I suppose. The rest of us decided to move and do it without him, he precided to get offended.tell us we all are half as good as he is and that he can find another band within a week, this is what I wanted to avoid, he's my cousin and I didn't want this animosity between us, this was supposed to be fun after all
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Well maybe that's for the best. You can always take this tactic: "This is supposed to be fun, if we're not having fun together, let's have fun separately. Feel like grabbing a beer later on?"
 
Jim Case said:
yeah I suppose. The rest of us decided to move and do it without him, he precided to get offended.tell us we all are half as good as he is and that he can find another band within a week, this is what I wanted to avoid, he's my cousin and I didn't want this animosity between us, this was supposed to be fun after all
Click to expand...

Trust me, as a band, you're much better without him. He's not a musician. He's a guy who can sort of play solo guitar.

Reminds me of Yoko Ono....
 
labbadabba said:
Well maybe that's for the best. You can always take this tactic: "This is supposed to be fun, if we're not having fun together, let's have fun separately. Feel like grabbing a beer later on?"
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm gonna have to, he's a decent guy but his is undiciplined and Arrogant when it comes to Music, not gonna work with someone like me who was a regional solo ensemble finalist all throughout school.
 
Jim Case said:
yeah I suppose. The rest of us decided to move and do it without him, he precided to get offended.tell us we all are half as good as he is and that he can find another band within a week, this is what I wanted to avoid, he's my cousin and I didn't want this animosity between us, this was supposed to be fun after all
Click to expand...

He can't find another band with his cousin playing bass. The guy is selfish, move on.
 
MadseasoN said:
He can't find another band with his cousin playing bass. The guy is selfish, move on.
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Yeah, it sucks becaue now there is going to be hostility in the family,we are all very close. We were very kind to him, told him that if he's not willing to improve he would have to leave, we didn't kick him out or anything, he flew into a rant and then walked out, the rest of us had a good practice.
 

I know how you feel. I've been in a "band" with 4 of my cousins off and on over the years. A couple of them are really hard to get along with in a band setting because they don't focus. They also happen to be the best players in the bunch, so we never really said anything to them. However, we weren't trying to be full time musicians or anything so it was more important for us to preserve the relationships than mold a good functioning band. As a result, we get together sporadically and jam, that's about it these days. Good luck.
 
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OkieFlyer said:

I know how you feel. I've been in a "band" with 4 of my cousins off and on over the years. A couple of them are really hard to get along with in a band setting because they don't focus. They also happen to be the best players in the bunch, so we never really said anything to them. However, we weren't trying to be full time musicians or anything so it was more important for us to preserve the relationships than mold a good functioning band. As a result, we get together sporadically and jam, that's about it these days. Good luck.
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It's not that we are trying to be "full time" or anything, it's that we play live and are not going to attach our name to anything that isn't as good as we can get it, this is an easily fixable mistake, but instead of putting forth and effort he threw a fit and stormed off. We asked Him to either improve His attitude or leave at practice today, he chose to leave, cursed us all to oblivion and now wont speak to any of us when we invited him to lunch, it's not personal, just we are all sick of the attitude.
 
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