Mounting iPad in Cockpit - Piper Arrow

iamtheari

iamtheari

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I'm starting to fly a PA-28R-180 Arrow and to work on my instrument rating. I have been using my iPad Air (original model) either sitting on my leg or in a kneeboard-type strap. This has a few disadvantages that get more apparent each time I fly with a passenger or CFII. I don't like the amount of heads-down time or the big transition from eyes forward to down and back and think I could easily get into an unusual attitude on final approach if I looked down to double-check minimums or the like. It's also cumbersome to have the full-size iPad sitting on my lap or having to tuck it away somewhere other than the passenger seat.

I took my iPad Air and a borrowed iPad Mini to the hangar today to do some test fitting. If I mount the iPad Air anywhere but the copilot yoke, it will seriously interfere with something. On the pilot yoke, it completely blocks the OAT, MAP, fuel flow, left fuel level, alternator, and oil pressure gauges. On the left window, it blocks the storm window and my view of the clock and EDM 700. On the windshield or glare shield, it blocks the windshield. On the copilot yoke, I don't like it because it's way over there, probably awkward if someone is sitting in the copilot seat, and definitely awkward to write on if you use it as a scratchpad. Another problem with the iPad Air is that I write with my palm down, so it is difficult to use it as a scratchpad unless you only write on the rightmost half of the screen or use your finger instead of a stylus.

The iPad Mini doesn't seem much better for mounting on the windows or copilot yoke. But on the pilot yoke, it leaves the usable range of the MAP, fuel flow, and oil pressure gauges visible and a slight head movement will give you full view of OAT, fuel level, alternator gauges. I didn't have the password to unlock the iPad Mini I borrowed, but it does seem I would be able to write on it using a stylus without resting my palm on the screen. So the Mini mounted to the pilot yoke seems to be the way to go.

As far as yoke mounts go, there seem to be a handful of interesting options. The best to my eye are the Flyboys PIVOT and the RAM X-grip mount, because they both let you keep the iPad in a protective case at all times. I have used RAM mounts for my iPhone on the race track to take video and record data. With my iPhone 4S, I had the device-specific clip-in mount and it was rock solid, but required removing the protective case from the phone, which presented a momentary but serious risk of being dropped and then run over repeatedly. So when I upgraded phones I switched to the X-grip and it holds on just fine in G loads from every direction. A RAM yoke mount and 7" X-grip come in at about $80, plus a protective case of some sort. The PIVOT concept looks really practical and convenient, but would take about $200 to put together and seems rather bulky compared to the size of the iPad Mini. (My iPad Air lives in an Otter Box that nearly doubles the weight and thickness.)

Am I missing any options or problems here?

I'm sure this has topic has been beaten to death and then some, but I wanted to make a final sanity check before spending money on the new iPad and mounting hardware. If the one true answer is already in a thread that I just didn't spot, a link is great, too. Thanks everyone!
 
I use the iPad mini X-grip clamped to the BOTTOM of the yoke in Archers. I doubt an Arrow is THAT different.

It really is much easier to deal with paper approach plates with a traditional (small) yoke clip when learning. As you say, much less head movement. It's also much easier to read the fine print. On the mini, you'll have to zoom and pan to read minima, and will find yourself fiddling with it a lot. On paper, you can easily see the profile and planview at the same time.
 
I should have tried viewing an approach plate with the mini. That was a foolish thing to miss on my part. Next time I have a chance, I will. I probably won't buy until the next refresh cycle. Probably :)

Now to find a good and inexpensive clip.
 
I bought the ram air mini yoke mount, a two piece "double angle" and a short arm. This set up effectively makes a "modified-U" or "v" shape under the Rams horns and allows the mini to fit right in between the "horns" up against the middle of the yoke. Blocks nothing and works great. Makes approach plates eZ to read. Couldn't be happier.
 
Have also seen a friend's set up with the seat rail mount to long arm. Makes a bow shape which fits beautifully in your field of vision as well.
 
With the AIR, have you tried mounting it on the pilot yoke in landscape rather than portrait position. I did that with my full-size iPad 3 and found it gave me a good position for use without blocking essential instruments. That included IFR use and airplanes including PA28s like yours, Cessna 172s, and Mooneys.
 
The Air seemed to totally block my view of some instruments when in landscape in front of the yoke, especially the MAP, OAT, and oil temp. I might take a closer look though. I don't mind leaning aside a bit to adjust power and check engine gauges as much as I mind unusual attitudes on final.
 
I have a full-size iPad, mounted on a Ram yoke mount with suction cup. I place the iPad in landscape position and have had no problems seeing what I want to see on the panel in my Arrow. Yes, I sometimes have to peek around the iPad, but it isn't difficult.
 
just Bill said:
I have a full-size iPad, mounted on a Ram yoke mount with suction cup. I place the iPad in landscape position and have had no problems seeing what I want to see on the panel in my Arrow. Yes, I sometimes have to peek around the iPad, but it isn't difficult.
Click to expand...
Where do you normally stick th suction cup? Or did I misread something?
 
That upside down mounted arm would rearrange my manhood on roll out....
 
Unit74 said:
That upside down mounted arm would rearrange my manhood on roll out....
Click to expand...

Actually I've done away with the short arm at this point. Never did have a problem, though I have noticed my voice has gotten higher pitched. ;)
 
I use a yoke mounted mini in the Mooney. It works really well and does not block anything. I tried a regular iPad and no matter where I placed it either blocked something on the panel or outside the window. Did not like the idea of creating a blind spot. I use the approach plates without difficulty. I use the mini RAM mount and I point one of the air vents in the Mooney at it to ensure it keeps cool no matter the conditions. I have never had it overheat in flight even with the sun right on it. May want to think about this a bit especially if you don't have an air vent you can point at the iPad. May want to avoid a big heavy case or something that will further limit the air flow around the iPad. Probably not an issue on high wings but something to consider otherwise.
 
I added this piece to the set up in the prior post. Makes for a nice clean set up and holds it tighter to the yoke tube eliminating the potential source of the high voice pinching...
 

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I have been using an iPad in the cockpit for years now on a kneeboard, but now that ADS-B traffic is becoming more of a reality I want to move it more in my scan as the original poster mentioned. I have the RAM mounts that people are using here and in my Cherokee am finding that the weight on the control column takes a little getting used to. I also think it still is not really in my scan down there on the yoke although it is better.

Has anyone in a Cherokee or similar tried to mount it to the windshield somehow using suction cups as shown in the presentation from Sportys below? That location does block a bit of the windshield I suppose but it is in a good place, I am not sure what suction cups I would use as the windshield is curved in the Cherokee 180.

Also: What cases are people using for the Mini 4? I would love to keep the mini lightweight but protected. I just bought one and am selling my air 2. I am going to use the X-grip Ram mount.


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jdangel said:
Has anyone in a Cherokee or similar tried to mount it to the windshield somehow using suction cups as shown in the presentation from Sportys below? That location does block a bit of the windshield I suppose but it is in a good place, I am not sure what suction cups I would use as the windshield is curved in the Cherokee 180.
Click to expand...
I suppose it would depend on what instruments are on that side. I can't imagine it really fitting well over there in a PA-28. I ended up doing a yoke mount, with the RAM components over the top of the yoke. When I mounted it on the bottom of the yoke, there was too much freedom to bounce up and down, which made using it in less than perfect air impossible.

The engine oil gauges and the manifold pressure/fuel flow gauge in the Arrow are obstructed by the iPad Air when it's mounted on the yoke. The obstruction isn't bad so I can get used to it, I just have to look around the iPad every so often at the engine gauges and then lean slightly to the right when making power adjustments. So now I am torn between iPad Pro 9.7 (more useful outside the plane, with the Smart Keyboard and Pencil) and the iPad Mini (maybe this fall we will see one with Pencil support to make in-flight notes easier?) Or both, with the Mini for flying and the Pro for other uses. But I'd really prefer to just have the one.

At any rate, so far so good on the Yoke mount. Just a little bit of head movement to see all the gauges and it is perfectly placed in front of me for approach plates and so on. I do take the iPad out of its Otter Box case while flying because the case doubles the weight of the iPad and lighter is better for stability in the cockpit.
 
I just got a 9.7 Pro and an Otter Box. I've purchased the X-Grip Ram holder and a hand full of short extensions to work with my current six inch arm. I had the under the yoke setup and just used a velcro strap to stabilize the mount. I'll be playing around with all the new pieces to see what works best. I will leave the iPad in the Otter Box and just take the cover off.
 
EppyGA said:
I just got a 9.7 Pro and an Otter Box. I've purchased the X-Grip Ram holder and a hand full of short extensions to work with my current six inch arm. I had the under the yoke setup and just used a velcro strap to stabilize the mount. I'll be playing around with all the new pieces to see what works best. I will leave the iPad in the Otter Box and just take the cover off.
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Did you get the Pencil? I'm curious how it works for scratchpads or writing on approach plates while bouncing around in the air.
 
I have an iPad mini and tried the windshield mount. Worked great...except it shut down due to overheating. The sun in Mississippi can be brutal

So, I went the Yoke mount and it works for me. I am using the Ram system. The parts are interchangeable so if the yoke isn't for you, just get the suction arm and add to your inventory.
 
You need to make some choices about what is more important to be able to readily see immediately. I turn my iPad Air Ram yoke mount upside down to lower it from partially blocking the DG and use the slim Ram EZ-Roll'R mount for the iPad Air and it works very well. I didn't think I would be able to put a full size unit on the yoke having flown around with my Nexus 7 (something like a mini) in that position for several years. I don't like those "X" Ram mounts since they tend to catch on things passing by.

Geez, I mean take the iPad out of those big cases. Less is more on a yoke. Are you afraid it will drop? There is some blocking of the engine gauges but intermittent peek-scans makes that not a problem at all. I mean you are not always looking at the suction gauge are you?

A lightning cable with an "L" shaped connector makes things even more compact but the straight one will work ok. I'm planning on installing a USB outlet next to the pilot yoke to shorten my wire connection and eliminate the use of the USB cigarette lighter adapter.

This setup is working much better than I had thought it would.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ps/ipad_mounts/ramipadair.php
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...50&sr=8-13&keywords=lightning+angle+connector
 
Side Window mount doesn't work in an Archer. Yoke or on the front window. But the window mount blocks your view, but hey, I've got adsb so I don't need to look out anymore so it's a moot point.
 
Buy your RAM Mounts parts on Amazon. Best pricing. Build up a small inventory of options and have the perfect setup for less than the retail price of one mounting option from an aviation vendor.
 
Unit74 said:
Side Window mount doesn't work in an Archer. Yoke or on the front window. But the window mount blocks your view, but hey, I've got adsb so I don't need to look out anymore so it's a moot point.
Click to expand...

:nono:
 
You do understand that is sarcasm, right?
 
I've tried with windows on a PA28R-200 (which I assume is the same as a -180).
Like with the other cherokees, it's too curved off the the windscreen and too "in-your-face" on the side window.
It's fine to work off the windscreen in a -172, but with the Piper products, the yoke is the far better option (but I've never tried mounting to the bottom --- would seem to be in the way; but we'll see)
 
In the archer I mount it like on the yoke, minimizes blocked gauges etc..
 

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One other trick you can do with a yoke mount to get just the right placement is to flip the mount "tray" upside down and then mount your iPad. Depending on the type of tray you have (e.g. tabtite, RollR, etc.) it will lower or raise your mount another inch or more for better panel viz.
 
iamtheari said:
Did you get the Pencil? I'm curious how it works for scratchpads or writing on approach plates while bouncing around in the air.
Click to expand...
I do not have the pencil, may add that down the road.
 
I recently made a short trip for work and learned at least one thing to avoid. The RAM X-grip holder is fantastic when it is cool, but while the plane sat on the ground it heated up and the rubber was not sticky enough to keep the iPad Air in position. So whatever you end up with, use one of the form-fitting mounts.
 
I just have a canvas flip case for my mini with a note pad on the front and a pen loop, I keep it on my lap, not strapped or anything, works great for me, decent sized turboprops to piston 2 seaters.

Not super worried about being "heads down" for a few, heck before iPads we all kept our sectionals and enroutes folded on our lap and didn't find a need to suction cup them to windows :)
 
I didn't like the iPad on my lap because it tends to get a lot of glare at that angle and often requires two hands to operate it. Then again, flying with your head down working on an iPad is probably safer with your hands off the yoke than on it if your plane is in rig and trim. :)

But I like the idea of the flip case with a notepad built in. Did you roll your own or find one like that?
 
Slide out tray from below that puts it horizontal right below the bottom of the panel.
 
iamtheari said:
I didn't like the iPad on my lap because it tends to get a lot of glare at that angle and often requires two hands to operate it. Then again, flying with your head down working on an iPad is probably safer with your hands off the yoke than on it if your plane is in rig and trim. :)

But I like the idea of the flip case with a notepad built in. Did you roll your own or find one like that?
Click to expand...

Roll my own, Belkin canvas case with a wide elastic strap, which holds the small legal pad, a auto shop stiched the elastic on the front cover with a added pen hoop for me.

I've never had the glare issue, I keep my iPad sideways on my lap, the cover opens forward which just happened to block most all of the glare.

As far as defense from glare goes,these guys are the kings of screen covers, like very thick zero bubble ones.

http://www.powersupportintl.com/anti-glare-film-for-ipad-air/
 
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I did the ram mount setup under the yoke in my Archer as well. I use the cradle where the iPad mini slides in, then clips top center. The trick for me was to tip it forward so that the screen wasn't facing squarely at my face, but rather a little above. That put only the ceiling in the reflection, which got rid of any glare. It also put it at an angle that was easier to read and include in my instrument scan. It also made for an easier angle to write on it. (Which I do with my finger.) I added a zip-tie around the arm underneath and up over the yoke, as well as one from the top-down to prevent bounce, neither of which you can see when the iPad mini is mounted. So far, this has worked splendidly. I prefer reading the plates in FF on the iPad mini vs paper. It is the same size, and with the iPad I can zoom in and make things easier to read in a bouncing plane. I wouldn't want to have to read either (ipad/paper) on final, which is why I use the suction-cup reminder bug on my altimeter, so I can preset my MDA before I start the approach. Plus, I also use a small, stick-on clip and write down my altitudes and missed instructions on a small card, so they are right in front of me in big, black characters!

I also made a clipboard that fits in the same cradle for my nephew to use (working on his PPL) since we're not letting him use an iPad until he finishes his PPL. (Has an old-school DPE.) Next project is to add a small, gooseneck, battery powered reading light for night-time ops!
 
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