Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Interesting. I didn't realize a filter, snapped on over the camera lens, would remove that prop effect. I thought it was more related to shutter speed, etc?
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Mounting a GoPro on an RV-8
- Thread starter Jay Honeck
- Start date
Interesting. I didn't realize a filter, snapped on over the camera lens, would remove that prop effect. I thought it was more related to shutter speed, etc?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
The filter is reducing the light, causing the camera to then use a slower shutter speed, which then in turn reduces the prop effect.
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Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
So...theoretically, I should be able to simply change the shutter speed setting, and forego the filter. Right?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
You'll need the filter as the shutter speed is what it is based on the amount of light.
wanttaja
En-Route
Nice video, Jay.
About 1:24 in, there's some left-and-right camera rocking. Any idea what that is? It seems to go away at higher speeds. Could be the "jelly effect" that a lot of aircraft videos show (even ones on commercial TV).
I have a Contour camera (company now apparently defunct) that I think makes a better aircraft camera since it's a small tube rather than a big block like a GoPro. However, I get a lot of "jelly effect" that seems related to engine vibration; having a lightweight camera is actually working against me since it's tough to dampen. I've used rubber mounts to indifferent results.
You probably plan this already, but I highly recommend a vertical stabilizer mount. It's a pretty neat view. I (temporarily) replaced my strobe for this shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8cEA5NhTuE
Ron Wanttaja
About 1:24 in, there's some left-and-right camera rocking. Any idea what that is? It seems to go away at higher speeds. Could be the "jelly effect" that a lot of aircraft videos show (even ones on commercial TV).
I have a Contour camera (company now apparently defunct) that I think makes a better aircraft camera since it's a small tube rather than a big block like a GoPro. However, I get a lot of "jelly effect" that seems related to engine vibration; having a lightweight camera is actually working against me since it's tough to dampen. I've used rubber mounts to indifferent results.
You probably plan this already, but I highly recommend a vertical stabilizer mount. It's a pretty neat view. I (temporarily) replaced my strobe for this shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8cEA5NhTuE
Ron Wanttaja
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
I have NO idea how to mount this camera on the tail. I'm gonna need a ladder to get up there and have a look-see. That really would be the best angle, as your video shows.
I think if I were to build a plane, I would incorporate a camera into the fiberglass shroud, and hard wire it in. That would be a real bear to accomplish, after the fact.
WRT the motion at 1:24, I don't know what that is. I've read about the jelly effect, but don't fully understand it. Whatever it was, it went away once we passed through that speed or engine vibration range.
The low angle of the camera certainly captures the oil canning of the wing. Our Cherokee did that, too, and I've always wondered why the designers didn't add stiffeners to prevent it. Weight, I suppose...
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
BTW: Your video looks AMAZING cast onto a big HDTV. It's like I'm wing-walking with y'all!
Two things:
1. I trust your engine really doesn't sound like that!
2. Are those flying wires really supposed to be that loose? I never noticed them bouncing around like that on the Stearman or Travel Air.
wanttaja
En-Route
Here's a version that gets rid of the wing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnnPZrUn16k
I had the kapocketa-kapocketa machine turned on.Two things:
1. I trust your engine really doesn't sound like that!
What you're mostly hearing, I think, it wind noise. I had the audio gain on the camera turned down to almost nothing.
Careful perusal of the video will reveal one subtle fact: My airplane isn't a biplane. And you can't see the flying wires from that camera position...those are landing wires.
Wing bays on biplanes have a big "X" of bracing wires. One tightens the landing wires and flying wires against each other, and they can get very tight.
One doesn't have the cross-bracing on a monoplane. The landing wires atop the wing (the ones visible on the video) join together at a single turnbuckle in the cockpit, and when that turnbuckle is tightened, it tries to increase dihedral, which also tightens the flying wires below the wings (the two sets of wires connect about 3/4 of the way out on the wing). As you might expect, the leverage achieved from that big turnbuckle isn't that great.
Supporting the weight of the aircraft in flight, though, puts additional tension on the flying wires, and takes tension off the landing wires. So the landing wires get a bit slack, and can shake a bit. Even when one tightens the master turnbuckle in flight, some of the individual landing wires can be a bit slacker than the others, and they're going to shiver. Each wire has its own turnbuckle, and could be individually tightened, but that's real awkward to do in flight (not, strictly speaking, impossible, but it takes two hands and you have to remove the safety wire before takeoff).
In any case, the landing wires (the ones shivering in the video) are carrying absolutely no load in normal flight. I could bring along a cutters, cut them off, and land normally. Couldn't TAXI normally, of course, since those are the wires that hold up the wings on the ground. They're also important if one pulls negative Gs in flight, but I rarely do.
Where landing wire tension does get into an issue is when the pilot does a sudden transition from high-positive G to high-negative G. It's one of the reasons I recommend Fly Baby pilots do not perform aerobatics.
The Fly Baby has the single Master Turnbuckle arrangement to support wing-folding; to fold the wings, one has only to slack off the Master turnbuckle and pull two clevis pins holding the flying wires to the wheel axles. But look at any wire-braced monoplane (such as the Gee Bee) and you'll see a similar issue about landing-wire tension.
Ron Wanttaja
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
BTW: Your video looks AMAZING cast onto a big HDTV. It's like I'm wing-walking with y'all!
Two things:
1. I trust your engine really doesn't sound like that!
2. Are those flying wires really supposed to be that loose? I never noticed them bouncing around like that on the Stearman or Travel Air.
Landing wires, the ones on top of the wing, are indeed quite loose in flight as the flight loads are being supported by the flying wires underneath the wings. The landing wires on top of the wing support negative g forces and mostly just hold the wings when you're on the ground.
The flapping of the landing wires is unsettling when you first start flying a flybaby but you quickly get used to it.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
And you guys gave me crap about a stupid landing gear fairing?
I'm sure your plane is safe, but watching those wires bounce around gave me the willies....
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
And you guys gave me crap about a stupid landing gear fairing?
I'm sure your plane is safe, but watching those wires bounce around gave me the willies....
I'm in the process right now of stripping, inspecting, repainting, and mostly just replacing all of the hardware that holds my wings on. It's actually incredibly expensive with some of the bolts approaching like $50 each.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ouch. Might as well buy Piper parts!
Some things are best left a mystery. I remember the first time I saw the stabilator of a Cherokee with the plastic fairings removed. It freaks me out to this day, knowing how little structure is actually holding those stabilators on!
Same with Cessna 172 wing spars. Yikes!
Yet, they're perfectly safe, as is your wing. I just wish I could un-see what I saw.
wanttaja
En-Route
AN-130 turnbuckles, AN100 thimbles, AN3 bolts, AN365 nuts, AN380 cotter pins, AN393 clevis pins. Face it, Jay, the only thing AN about your RTV work is that you used your "fANger" to smooth the bead....And you guys gave me crap about a stupid landing gear fairing?
I'm sure your plane is safe, but watching those wires bounce around gave me the willies....
Ron Wanttaja
wanttaja
En-Route
Indeed. The Fly Baby design was originally put together in an environment where tons of war-surplus hardware was still available, and it's really biting in the modern environment.Ouch. Might as well buy Piper parts!
The Fly Baby uses 40 AN-130 turnbuckles. Back in the '60s, these were available from the surplus lots for pennies. Now they're $25 each! That's a thousand bucks, JUST for turnbuckles!
The stock Fly Baby uses some really, really long bolts to attach the bracing wires to the spars...AN3-64A, AN3-65A, and AN3-66A. That "66" means the bolt is six and three quarter inches long! Practically nothing uses a 3/16 bolt of that length these days (surprisingly, the other two lengths are more available). Jesse's are really trashed, somehow, so he's stuck with trying to find them.
On the plus side, there's an alternate method of attaching the bracing wires to the spars that doesn't use unusual hardware. Unfortunately, it requires opening the fabric to the extent that the wing would have to be recovered.
Made a run with a camera attached to the aircraft with double-faced tape this afternoon...of course, it's a little "key fob" camera costing $10. Unfortunately, I accidentally pushed the "stop" button while tamping it down. From the little video I did collect, didn't like the angle, anyway.
Ron Wanttaja
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
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Greg
Cameras change pilot behavior, not always for the better. Be careful out there.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just landed from a bit more interesting (I hope) sunset tour of the island and nearby environs. I will post them later tonight or tomorrow.
My next video will be from a different viewpoint.
My next video will be from a different viewpoint.
S Joslin
Pre-takeoff checklist
Nice video, Jay. I agree with you on the video editing, whole new world to me. I thought aviation had a lot of acronyms, geesh! Just wait until you move the camera inside the cockpit, now you have to deal with recording the audio, what cables to use, what about battery life, which resolutions, what about frame rate
Be careful what SD cards you buy for the GoPro:
http://gopro.com/support/articles/software-update-release
Now let's see some in-cockpit stuff, here's one of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57aWhsPfxsg
As for video editing I use Adobe Premiere Elements 11, kind of a steep learning curve, it was for me anyway, but a good program...
Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
Nice video, Jay. I agree with you on the video editing, whole new world to me. I thought aviation had a lot of acronyms, geesh! Just wait until you move the camera inside the cockpit, now you have to deal with recording the audio, what cables to use, what about battery life, which resolutions, what about frame rate
Be careful what SD cards you buy for the GoPro:
http://gopro.com/support/articles/software-update-release
Now let's see some in-cockpit stuff, here's one of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57aWhsPfxsg
As for video editing I use Adobe Premiere Elements 11, kind of a steep learning curve, it was for me anyway, but a good program...
+1 Great video Jay!
Joslin, I like your Flyin' Iowan vids too!
If you want to record the audio and not have to worry about the battery life. Just get our new cable.
That way you can record and charge at the same time. Ya, we all got sick of the battery dying, so we made this one!http://www.thesquawkshoppe.com/products/aviation-headset-adapter-gopro-hero3-recorder-charger
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Skylane81E
Final Approach
This can be true with out a doubt, try and avoid stupid pilot tricks induced by showing off.
Dav8or
Final Approach
docmirror
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Where did you find that cool eyebrow shade for the canopy? I gotta get me one of those.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's the same one we installed in our -8A. Wow, that thing saved the day for us, here in sunny South Texas.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
+1 Great video Jay!
Joslin, I like your Flyin' Iowan vids too!
If you want to record the audio and not have to worry about the battery life. Just get our new cable.
http://www.thesquawkshoppe.com/products/aviation-headset-adapter-gopro-hero3-recorder-charger
That pic is a bit confusing. What is this cable, and how does it work?
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sorry -- we bought ours from a friend. I don't remember the company name.
There's only one sunshield that looks like that, though, and they're all over the Van's Air Force site. Work the Google, man. Work the Google.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
docmirror
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cowboy - yeehah!
It was easy once I had the "KOGER". Without that:
Bing airplane sunshades
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
3,080,000 RESULTS Any time
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Bing
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
12,200,000 RESULTS Any time
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Bing
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
3,380 RESULTS Any time
AdSunshade Louvers | ArchLouvers.com
www.ArchLouvers.com/sunshades.htm
louver sunshades block the sun, you choose the style and color.
Koger Sunshades_Index
kogersunshades.com
Koger Sunshades are designed to reduce sunshine intensity in bubble-canopy aircraft, resulting in a cooler cockpit, and more visable instruments.
But - that would have deprived you of your ability to snark and add some roll-eyes. So, this way it worked out better for all of us, I got the info I needed in a minute or two, and you got to add your snark commentary.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
It was easy once I had the "KOGER". Without that:
Bing airplane sunshades
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
3,080,000 RESULTS Any time
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bing
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
12,200,000 RESULTS Any time
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bing
WEBIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWSMORE
3,380 RESULTS Any time
AdSunshade Louvers | ArchLouvers.com
www.ArchLouvers.com/sunshades.htm
louver sunshades block the sun, you choose the style and color.
Koger Sunshades_Index
kogersunshades.com
Koger Sunshades are designed to reduce sunshine intensity in bubble-canopy aircraft, resulting in a cooler cockpit, and more visable instruments.
But - that would have deprived you of your ability to snark and add some roll-eyes. So, this way it worked out better for all of us, I got the info I needed in a minute or two, and you got to add your snark commentary.
Google: "RV-8 sun shades".
Sheesh.
Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
We're still working on videos, so sorry about the confusion. So because the GoPro cameras only have the one connection, you were forced to either use an adapter for the recording, and run off batter power, or plug the power connection in and not get to record the audio. Well we took care of that, so you can do both at the same time. The cable plugs into your headset, and has a USB connection for a power converter. The other end plugs into your GoPro Hero3 and will record and charge the camera at the same time.
All the credit goes to FlyBoyAndy and his son for sending us the request back in June.
Edit: I finally got the chance to get a video up for that cable. I hope that helps explain how it works.
http://vimeo.com/thesquawkshoppe/squawk060-gopro-hero3-recording-charging-cable
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Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
We're still working on videos, so sorry about the confusion. So because the GoPro cameras only have the one connection, you were forced to either use an adapter for the recording, and run off batter power, or plug the power connection in and not get to record the audio. Well we took care of that, so you can do both at the same time. The cable plugs into your headset, and has a USB connection for a power converter. The other end plugs into your GoPro Hero3 and will record and charge the camera at the same time.
All the credit goes to FlyBoyAndy and his son for sending us the request back in June.
Cool! I'm gonna have to get one of those!
S Joslin
Pre-takeoff checklist
Well, I hope you like the audio portion. I'm using your cable
danpass
Pre-Flight
danpass
Pre-Flight
I don't trust that spring clip strength. This is what I recommend using:After some noodling around on the Van's Air Force site, here's what I came up with for my first attempt at mounting our new GoPro Hero3:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1267277_569244426444789_1796322564_o.jpg
Some guys use the standard motorcycle helmet mount, but that would only cover one screw hole, which would not be nearly as stable. The mounting platform I devised is broad enough to cover TWO wing tip attachment screws, giving it much more stability.
I drilled and countersunk for the screws, then band-sawed off the corners of the base to eliminate any lifting areas. It's stout.
I also added four thin stick-on rubber feet, giving it stability, and making it less likely to scratch that gorgeous red paint!
Here's another shot of it:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1255153_569240856445146_59864954_n.jpg
Tomorrow is our first chance to test 'er out. Videos shall be forthcoming!
http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/tripod-mount
It'd be best to mod that base to accommodate a stud without contacting the wing underneath.
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jkgoblue
Pre-takeoff checklist
Is that filter going to stay on with a 180 mph wind coming at it from the side? Looks like it just snaps on.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
The base is stout as hell, and sits on four rubber pads that keep things pretty vibration free. I swear, I could push the little RV into the hangar, using just the mount as a handle.
Tomorrow I'm moving it to the underside of the wing.
Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
Sweet!
hehe, nice!Well, I hope you like the audio portion. I'm using your cable
We had looked at that option before we manufactured ours. Unfortunately it didn't work. That cable is for a media connection, like your TV or computer, etc. That's why it is all female connectors. If you want to use that for your headset, you need to get that combo cable, a 3.5mm splitter to a female to male (must be in parallel). Then you need a mini USB to USB cable, and finally two 3.5mm to PJ055 reducers. ;/
It was way too messy and expensive to patch one together, so we started making them.
We're the only one's who make a GoPro Hero3 headset adapter / charger cable.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sweet!
hehe, nice!
We had looked at that option before we manufactured ours. Unfortunately it didn't work. That cable is for a media connection, like your TV or computer, etc. That's why it is all female connectors. If you want to use that for your headset, you need to get that combo cable, a 3.5mm splitter to a female to male (must be in parallel). Then you need a mini USB to USB cable, and finally two 3.5mm to PJ055 reducers. ;/
It was way too messy and expensive to patch one together, so we started making them.
We're the only one's who make a GoPro Hero3 headset adapter / charger cable.
Just ordered the cable!
danpass
Pre-Flight
Ah, I think I understand lolSweet!
hehe, nice!
We had looked at that option before we manufactured ours. Unfortunately it didn't work. That cable is for a media connection, like your TV or computer, etc. That's why it is all female connectors. If you want to use that for your headset, you need to get that combo cable, a 3.5mm splitter to a female to male (must be in parallel). Then you need a mini USB to USB cable, and finally two 3.5mm to PJ055 reducers. ;/
It was way too messy and expensive to patch one together, so we started making them.
We're the only one's who make a GoPro Hero3 headset adapter / charger cable.
(I already have a headset adapter, Barnstormer Audio, to patch in)
Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
Just ordered the cable!
Awesome! Well we're here in Austin, so if you ever need someone to go fly with you, I'm a hangar rat.
I may take my wife down to your neck of the woods for our anniversary. There's some good makeout spots down there. hehe. Any advice on where to take her?Ah, there you go.
Well, here is the world's most boring GoPro video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iYbl1lW6yQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I learned a lot, as always. Here's the short version of lessons learned:
1. There was no discernible impact on handling. No adverse yaw, no nuthin'. Very nice.
2. The camera remained rock solid at every speed.
3. The Cineform software that GoPro provides to edit these videos is awful.
4. If you're going to work with HD video, you better have time on your hands. Processing, converting, and editing this silly five minute video took a long time, on a brand, new, lightning fast PC.
5. Part of this was a result of the WiFi connection from the camera to our tablet failing five minutes into the flight. This meant we could not turn the GoPro off during boring parts, so I had to edit them out of enormous files, after the fact. Mary refused to go out on the wing to reboot the camera, so it simply recorded until the SD card was full. (Which is why there is no landing. It shut down before we arrived in Brenham, TX. I need a bigger SD card.)
6. Speaking of Mary, I had no idea how low she sat in the back cockpit. She looks like Kilroy back there, peeking over the wall!
All in all, it was a successful test. A few things I'd like to fix:
1. Gotta get rid of that prop effect! Anyone know the camera setting for that?
2. Gotta troubleshoot that WiFi connection.
3. Gotta find better software. I like Movie Maker for the final assembly, but I would like something that can edit the raw files, rather than having to convert them to mp4. That's what takes forever.
4. Gotta try mounting the GoPro looking different directions.
I think this thing will be very useful to use when flying with our aerobatics instructor. To be able to graphically see what we did wrong (or right) should be of assistance in the learning process.
No, that is my complaint with the GoPro and all the CMAS cameras. There was one I saw demonstrated where they had a digital filter that got rid of it, but it was a whole different rig. The CCD cameras don't do that.